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What really is atheism?

cavehunter

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I have talked to many atheists. All of them are part of what I call the "club of evil." The ACLU is what I speak of. They all say, "I believe there is no God."
To truly define the difference between an atheist and a religious person we must find what the universe is to them, how it started, where it's going, and who wrote the definitions in our dictionaries. When definitions change we must look into what a so called atheist believes rather than looking at a dictionary.

:2dance:
 

shuamort

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Atheism is NOT a Religion
"Atheism is religion." When you hear a statement like this, it often comes form a person who has actually done little research or thinking about either Atheism or religion. Most people rarely study or investigate their own religious beliefs, assuming they have any. If they are born in a predominately Christian, or Muslim, or Hindu, or Jewish culture, they will probably reflect the religious beliefs of that society.

Nearly every dictionary will define religion as "belief in a divine or superhuman power or powers to be obeyed a worshipped as the creator(s) and ruler(s) of the universe. The definition of all other terms linked to religion employ much the same language -- church, monastery, priest. They are all part of a religious-language universe or "game" that has little to do with Atheism.

There cannot be an Atheist "Church", or an Atheist "priest" anymore than there could be an Atheist "god."

ACLU is the American Civil Liberties Union.
 

Dogger807

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Atheism is literly (without theism) and an atheist (is one without theism)

The biggest difference between a theist and ans atheist is a theist believes all religions but his own are false where as an atheist doesn't even give his the exception.

Because most religions define those who are not of that religion as evil, atheists as a whole recieve an automatic social stigma.

Also because atheism is almost always achieved by denying and questioning the "truths" others insist on , no structurized rule system could ever be part of this viewpoint.

Please note defining an atheist as "one who doesn't believe in god." is an assumption that god exists in the first place and is therefore erronious. Ie one who believes that it's possible that a single sentient could have made the universe but also believes that no one on earth has ever made contact and all religions are bogus is an atheist.

about the only thing constant with atheists is when asked how the universe was make or came into existance they will answear "I don't know." we simply do not have enough information to hazzard a valid guess.

a wise man once said (a paraphrase) "to gain wisdom you must first realize that you know nothing."

Many of us see religions "all religions" as a control mechenism for those in power. and when viewed from the outside they are all equally silly and primative.

As a whole atheists are almost impossible to typlify since we span the range of cultures, morals, and temperments.

Remember when your talking to an atheist your talking to one who considers all religions equally wrong we are not singling out whatever it is you believe in we simple think it is man made. (that is an absolute statement which is not entirely true as I can't vouch for all, but it is still a good rule of thumb.)

In short you can not define an atheist by world view like you suggested because there is no common world view.
 

Naughty Nurse

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Hey Dogger, great post.


I think that just about says it all, really!
 

Naughty Nurse

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cavehunter said:
I have talked to many atheists. All of them are part of what I call the "club of evil." The ACLU is what I speak of.
:2dance:


Oh, please do expand on that point. Sounds like a wonderful bit of paranoia to me!
 

Montalban

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Naughty Nurse said:
Oh, please do expand on that point. Sounds like a wonderful bit of paranoia to me!
Simply because people are out to get me, doesn't make me paranoid!
 

galenrox

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First, the saying is just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me. Get it right. I'm just screwing with you.

And now, what's the big deal about hating the ACLU? I'm a proud card carrying member, and I really for the life of me can't figure out how anyone other than a politician or a facist could have any problem with them!
 

cavehunter

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dogger807 said:
Atheism is literly (without theism) and an atheist (is one without theism)

The biggest difference between a theist and ans atheist is a theist believes all religions but his own are false where as an atheist doesn't even give his the exception.

Because most religions define those who are not of that religion as evil, atheists as a whole recieve an automatic social stigma.

Also because atheism is almost always achieved by denying and questioning the "truths" others insist on , no structurized rule system could ever be part of this viewpoint.

Please note defining an atheist as "one who doesn't believe in god." is an assumption that god exists in the first place and is therefore erronious. Ie one who believes that it's possible that a single sentient could have made the universe but also believes that no one on earth has ever made contact and all religions are bogus is an atheist.

about the only thing constant with atheists is when asked how the universe was make or came into existance they will answear "I don't know." we simply do not have enough information to hazzard a valid guess.

a wise man once said (a paraphrase) "to gain wisdom you must first realize that you know nothing."

Many of us see religions "all religions" as a control mechenism for those in power. and when viewed from the outside they are all equally silly and primative.

As a whole atheists are almost impossible to typlify since we span the range of cultures, morals, and temperments.

Remember when your talking to an atheist your talking to one who considers all religions equally wrong we are not singling out whatever it is you believe in we simple think it is man made. (that is an absolute statement which is not entirely true as I can't vouch for all, but it is still a good rule of thumb.)

In short you can not define an atheist by world view like you suggested because there is no common world view.

Some say that religions are made to gain power. I say atheism is an evil plan to convince people they can do whatever they want.
 

cavehunter

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Naughty Nurse said:
Oh, please do expand on that point. Sounds like a wonderful bit of paranoia to me!

The ACLU has (by its ploys) forced all things in government to be done in atheism. Some say that when a religion is forced it is wrong. I say forcing it out is wrong too. Most of all when atheism is put in place.
 

V.I. Lenin

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I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. - - Stephen Roberts
 

V.I. Lenin

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Some say that religions are made to gain power. I say atheism is an evil plan to convince people they can do whatever they want.

They should do what you want then? Or a 2,000 year old book? Please tell me. We should keep things like they were thousands of years ago. Societies grow leaps and bounds when they stand still.
 

Dogger807

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cavehunter said:
Some say that religions are made to gain power. I say atheism is an evil plan to convince people they can do whatever they want.

What possible reason could anyone have to implement a plan on that basis..... and why is it evil?
 

Naughty Nurse

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cavehunter said:
The ACLU has (by its ploys) forced all things in government to be done in atheism. Some say that when a religion is forced it is wrong. I say forcing it out is wrong too. Most of all when atheism is put in place.

Ah, just as I suspected - paranoid delusions.
 

donkeykong

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dogger807 said:
Atheism is literly (without theism) and an atheist (is one without theism)

Please note defining an atheist as "one who doesn't believe in god." is an assumption that god exists in the first place and is therefore erronious. Ie one who believes that it's possible that a single sentient could have made the universe but also believes that no one on earth has ever made contact and all religions are bogus is an atheist.

...

Remember when your talking to an atheist your talking to one who considers all religions equally wrong we are not singling out whatever it is you believe in we simple think it is man made. (that is an absolute statement which is not entirely true as I can't vouch for all, but it is still a good rule of thumb.)
...

As a rational being one can not accept anything as fact without evidence but just as importantly one can not discount any possible explantion for a given phenomena without equal qualification. Atheism therefore strikes me as a hypocritical belief system because it is critical of "x religion" for believing in something based on "faith" while at the same time making the same leap of faith by concluding it false(without evidence).

I find agnosticism more rewarding because it requires more philisophical effort than does a belief that everything that doesnt have supporting evidence is false. Light does not cease to exist if one goes blind.
 

Alex

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donkeykong said:
As a rational being one can not accept anything as fact without evidence but just as importantly one can not discount any possible explantion for a given phenomena without equal qualification. Atheism therefore strikes me as a hypocritical belief system because it is critical of "x religion" for believing in something based on "faith" while at the same time making the same leap of faith by concluding it false(without evidence).

I find agnosticism more rewarding because it requires more philisophical effort than does a belief that everything that doesnt have supporting evidence is false. Light does not cease to exist if one goes blind.

On the contrary, most atheists discredit religion because their is no evidence to support it. Their is evidence that it is false, that is science. Whether blind or not, light is proven to exist. I cannot imagine any blind person believing it does not. Light is a fact, religion is not based on any factual evidence.
 

Kelzie

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donkeykong said:
As a rational being one can not accept anything as fact without evidence but just as importantly one can not discount any possible explantion for a given phenomena without equal qualification. Atheism therefore strikes me as a hypocritical belief system because it is critical of "x religion" for believing in something based on "faith" while at the same time making the same leap of faith by concluding it false(without evidence).

I find agnosticism more rewarding because it requires more philisophical effort than does a belief that everything that doesnt have supporting evidence is false. Light does not cease to exist if one goes blind.

Wait, back the truck up. I too am agnostic (clinging to hope I guess ;) ). But in defense of the athiest, are you saying that they can't discount God because there's no proof he does or doesn't exist? I can say that invisible fairies dance on my lawn at midnight, but that doesn't mean they do. There's no reason that people have to believe something that they have no proof for.
 

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galenrox said:
First, the saying is just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me. Get it right. I'm just screwing with you.

And now, what's the big deal about hating the ACLU? I'm a proud card carrying member, and I really for the life of me can't figure out how anyone other than a politician or a facist could have any problem with them!

I've known and worked closely with several lawyers who were members of the ACLU. Everyone of them fairly religious, honest up standing men...and one women. The ACLU gets a bad wrap because they defend anyone whose rights have been denied. As a result they've ended up taking sides with some pretty unpopular causes. Law enforcement has been known to bend the rules. It happens, I've seen it happen. When short cuts are taken, peoples rights get violated. IE illegal searches, wire taps etc... The ACLU will often take on cases where the government has done some illegal action and violated the rights of some person or some group. One famous case involved a wire tap and a group known as NAMBLA or the North American Man Boy Love Assoc. A group of pedophiles who like to sleep with under age boy. Jon Stewart of the Daily Show like to refer to any group he doesn't like as "NAMBLA." Anyway the feds tapped this groups phone without the proper warrants and gained info used to arrest several members. The ACLU stepped in and the case was thrown out. So people don't see it as protecting Constitutional rights, but rather as support for groups such as NAMBLA, Nazi's et el.

They've also stepped in and supported people who have felt their rights were being infringed on by churches. Such as displaying the Ten Com. or not allowing their children to join groups like the Boy Scouts due to their child's lack of religion. So people have labeled them as being anti-church. They're not anti-church- they're pro US Constitution. In fact on many occasions they've stepped in and supported the church and religious people too when their rights were being violated. They've come to the defense of students who wanted to pray in school and were being told they couldn't. Here's a link on one such case:
http://www.laaclu.org/News/2003/April%2016%20School%20Prayer%20HB.htm

Bottom line is the ACLU will step in and help anyone who's Constitutional rights are being violated. Rush Limbaugh has spent years bad mouthing the ACLU. He's called them everything form evil to un-American. When Florida prosecutors wanted his medical records pertaining to his drug abuse who'd he call? The ACLU...and they took his case. They're not anti-American or anti-church. They are pro US Constitution.
 

Dezaad

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I consider myself an atheist.

I do not believe there are no gods. I do not believe there are no elves. One cannot prove a negation. However, I do believe they are both vanishingly unlikely, and equally unlikely at that.

I accept, on a minimum of faith, if any at all, that certain things are true which seem to me to have been substantiated by a large body of scientific evidence.

My acceptance of things as being true is always subject to revision as new scientific evidence makes itself available.

These are the things that I believe classifies me an atheist.
 

cavehunter

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Pacridge said:
I've known and worked closely with several lawyers who were members of the ACLU. Everyone of them fairly religious, honest up standing men...and one women. The ACLU gets a bad wrap because they defend anyone whose rights have been denied. As a result they've ended up taking sides with some pretty unpopular causes. Law enforcement has been known to bend the rules. It happens, I've seen it happen. When short cuts are taken, peoples rights get violated. IE illegal searches, wire taps etc... The ACLU will often take on cases where the government has done some illegal action and violated the rights of some person or some group. One famous case involved a wire tap and a group known as NAMBLA or the North American Man Boy Love Assoc. A group of pedophiles who like to sleep with under age boy. Jon Stewart of the Daily Show like to refer to any group he doesn't like as "NAMBLA." Anyway the feds tapped this groups phone without the proper warrants and gained info used to arrest several members. The ACLU stepped in and the case was thrown out. So people don't see it as protecting Constitutional rights, but rather as support for groups such as NAMBLA, Nazi's et el.

They've also stepped in and supported people who have felt their rights were being infringed on by churches. Such as displaying the Ten Com. or not allowing their children to join groups like the Boy Scouts due to their child's lack of religion. So people have labeled them as being anti-church. They're not anti-church- they're pro US Constitution. In fact on many occasions they've stepped in and supported the church and religious people too when their rights were being violated. They've come to the defense of students who wanted to pray in school and were being told they couldn't. Here's a link on one such case:
http://www.laaclu.org/News/2003/April%2016%20School%20Prayer%20HB.htm

Bottom line is the ACLU will step in and help anyone who's Constitutional rights are being violated. Rush Limbaugh has spent years bad mouthing the ACLU. He's called them everything form evil to un-American. When Florida prosecutors wanted his medical records pertaining to his drug abuse who'd he call? The ACLU...and they took his case. They're not anti-American or anti-church. They are pro US Constitution.

If you say that the ACLU defends people when their rights are being attacked, how come they have never defended my rights at school? The school forces me and other kids to act like we're atheists. They press the Big Bang theory and evolution on us. Those are the ideas of atheists. How come I have to learn something against my religion? Whenever an atheist is taught the fact of Creationism they say their rights are being violated.

Our society has come to live a double-standard. I have to prove Creationism
to win an argument while an atheist opponent has to merely say, "The big bang theory makes sense doesn't it?" In science it seems something is a theory only if it explains how something may occur. Whenever somebody may put the thought of God in there it is no longer a theory.
 

shuamort

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cavehunter said:
If you say that the ACLU defends people when their rights are being attacked, how come they have never defended my rights at school? The school forces me and other kids to act like we're atheists. They press the Big Bang theory and evolution on us. Those are the ideas of atheists. How come I have to learn something against my religion? Whenever an atheist is taught the fact of Creationism they say their rights are being violated.
Because you're not there to learn about your religion. You're there to apparently learn science. Science does not support mythology. If you feel that you shouldn't be forced to learn facts, have your parents write a not to excuse you from class or be home schooled.



cavehunter said:
Our society has come to live a double-standard. I have to prove Creationism
to win an argument while an atheist opponent has to merely say, "The big bang theory makes sense doesn't it?" In science it seems something is a theory only if it explains how something may occur. Whenever somebody may put the thought of God in there it is no longer a theory.
Because there are no empirical or testable data to show the existance of a deity. There is empirical and testable data to support the big bang theory.
 

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cavehunter said:
If you say that the ACLU defends people when their rights are being attacked, how come they have never defended my rights at school? The school forces me and other kids to act like we're atheists. They press the Big Bang theory and evolution on us. Those are the ideas of atheists. How come I have to learn something against my religion? Whenever an atheist is taught the fact of Creationism they say their rights are being violated.

Our society has come to live a double-standard. I have to prove Creationism
to win an argument while an atheist opponent has to merely say, "The big bang theory makes sense doesn't it?" In science it seems something is a theory only if it explains how something may occur. Whenever somebody may put the thought of God in there it is no longer a theory.

God is a theory, but a much different kind of theory than evolution. Evolution is a based on scientific tests and observations that are provable. Religion is based on faith and is not provable.
 

cavehunter

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dogger807 said:
What possible reason could anyone have to implement a plan on that basis..... and why is it evil?

If someone believes that they can do whatever they want, they have no standard to keep themselves from causing harm to others. To believe you can do whatever you want is the same as believing there is no right or wrong. If there is no right or wrong people would not feel bad if they killed someone because in their mind there is no power to punish them. Atheism is the means the devil has employed to cause us to rebel against God.
 

shuamort

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cavehunter said:
If someone believes that they can do whatever they want, they have no standard to keep themselves from causing harm to others.
What about man-made law? What about religions that encourage harm onto others?

cavehunter said:
To believe you can do whatever you want is the same as believing there is no right or wrong. If there is no right or wrong people would not feel bad if they killed someone because in their mind there is no power to punish them.
Why are you attempted to equate atheism to a lack of morals? Morality is relative and is not derivative from religion. People go by societal mores more than religion anyways, but that's not to say that they're mutually exclusive either.
cavehunter said:
Atheism is the means the devil has employed to cause us to rebel against God.
You're welcome to your beliefs. Pardon me for not coming along with the newest mythological fad though.
 
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