What questions would you like answered at the Zimmerman trial? [W:209:368:403]

[Barbarian]

The physical injuries to both of them and Zimmerman's version of events... Once again, in the United States you have to prove a persons guilt, not their innocence. I have seen plenty of speculation, but no actual evidence that contradicts Zimmerman's version of events. The only things that really could contradict his story, would be physical evidence, which either supports his claims, or doesn't contradict them, or eye witness testimony which as far as I know, doesn't exist...

Let me quote you here.

You said.

You seem to be forgetting that all the evidence seems to indicate that Martin confronted and physically attacked Zimmerman

I have not seen any evidence once so ever as who started the initial confrontation. Unless you're holding information from us.

Everything you mention so far is nothing more then circumstantial.

In fact the initial evidences suggest otherwise when Zimmerman left his vehicle, he became the initial aggressor from Martin stand point.

 

[tashatexas77048]

Let me quote you here.

You said.



I have not seen any evidence once so ever as who started the initial confrontation. Unless you're holding information from us.

Everything you mention so far is nothing more then circumstantial.

In fact the initial evidences suggest otherwise when Zimmerman left his vehicle he became the initial aggressor from Martin stand point.

There is also an ear witness to the fact that Zimmerman was the intial aggressor. All they have to support their notion that Martin attacked Zimmerman is Zimmerman's tailor made for bigots, story.

 

[Barbarian]

Grim is like most Zimmerman supporters, he hates President Obama.

What a great country we live in where the argument for or against a person's right to life depends upon the debaters political affiliation.

I don't like Obama either. So what is your point here again?

 

[AlfredENeuman]

They will have to convince the jury that it's another miracle among all of the miracles that happened that night that worked out in Zimmerman's favor, like how he could transport himself and his car to the the T instantly when he said Martin ran but clearly he was closer to the mailboxes than to the T according to the NEN call. Or the miracle of how Martin found Zimmerman in the darkness with no flashlight when Zimmerman said it was so dark he didn't even want to walk back to his own car WITH TWO FLASHLIGHTS.

The defense hopes the jury is comprised of pure idiots.

My favorite miracle is how Martin got from approaching the clubhouse "coming to check me out" but then transported both himself and Zimmerman to the T in time to run back and circle the truck before running away.

I think that particular lie will be mentioned over and over by the prosecution.

 

[Barbarian]

There is also an ear witness to the fact that Zimmerman was the intial aggressor. All they have to support their notion that Martin attacked Zimmerman is Zimmerman's tailor made for bigots, story.

Yes. From his GF I believe. Can't remember the exact quote tho.

 

[buck]

How do you know Zimmerman didn't try to restrain Martin until the cops got there?

Zero evidence of this. Trayvon had no bruising on his writs/arm. I grabbed someone (not even that hard, I didn't think) and they ended up with a bruise where I grabbed them.

If he tried, does Martin have the right to defend himself then?

Yes, until Trayvon escalates. At that time, George has the right to defend himself.

 

[AlfredENeuman]

I don't like Obama either. So what is your point here again?

I think for some people, the reason they don't like Obama is the same reason they support Zimmerman.

Of course that's not true of all conservatives or Republicans, but it's true of some.

 

[Barbarian]

Zero evidence of this. Trayvon had no bruising on his writs/arm. I grabbed someone (not even that hard, I didn't think) and they ended up with a bruise where I grabbed them.

You must be one really really powerful individual....hell you don't even know your own strength.

Yes, until Trayvon escalates. At that time, George has the right to defend himself.

I see.

So you believe in proportionate response to a threat level.

 

[buck]

What would suffice, if the fact that he told a judge that he turned in his only passport, but only turned in an expired one and hid an actual, valid passport in a safe deposit box which he told no one about?

There is no evidence that he knew about that second passport at the time he turned it in and actual evidence that he had forgotten about it and only come across it when he informed Omara. omara then asked him to send it in. He did. Omara received the next business day. Dropped it into his file. Forgot about it.

And also hid from the court $150,000 in donations and told them they were flat broke?

And, as indicated in the jailhouse recording, was advised by Omara (who almost certainly helped him complete the paperwork) that it did not need to be included. Something Omara has never corrected.

 

[SheWolf]

George claims to have grabbed his wrist during the fight. He was being smothered.

Zero evidence of this. Trayvon had no bruising on his writs/arm. I grabbed someone (not even that hard, I didn't think) and they ended up with a bruise where I grabbed them.



Yes, until Trayvon escalates. At that time, George has the right to defend himself.

 

[Barbarian]

I think for some people, the reason they don't like Obama is the same reason they support Zimmerman.

Of course that's not true of all conservatives or Republicans, but it's true of some.

Sadly....yes.

Racial hatred comes from all political spectrum.

It's all depends on their upbringing and conditioning.

 

[Grim17]

For first part fair enough.

As for Zimmerman legal case for self defense being the aggressor that started this confrontation to begin with out of speculation the Martin looked suspicious....being a conservative and all. Do you not see the problem with that?

And how it hurts SYG laws?

What Zimmerman did has hurt our cause in pushing this legislation in other states.

That alone deserve hanging his balls from lamp post.

As I stated, whether you see Zimmerman as the aggressor or not, It's doesn't change a thing based on the known evidence.

As for your comment about conservatism and self defense laws, you may be right but the truth is, I have not given either of them any thought or consideration at all... That's because I put the truth, the law and doing what's right ahead of ideology, partisanship and political gain. This case will decide the fate of a man's life and I won't allow possible political ramifications or ideological beliefs to get in the way or taint my objectivity... It's all about the truth, doing what's right and upholding my values and convictions.

 

[AlfredENeuman]

There is no evidence that he knew about that second passport at the time he turned it in

Wait, what? They discussed the passport on the 17th. He's on tape discussing a second, valid passport 3 days prior to the first bond hearing. How on earth can you say there's no evidence Zimmerman knew about something we can hear him discussing?

Are you sure you don't want to retract this claim?

 

[SheWolf]

Its also true that some people bruise easier than others, especially if they have a health condition or a vitamin deficiency. But that us probably not relevant to this.

You must be one really really powerful individual....hell you don't even know your own strength.




I see.

So you believe in proportionate response to a threat level.

 

[Barbarian]

There is no evidence that he knew about that second passport at the time he turned it in and actual evidence that he had forgotten about it and only come across it when he informed Omara. omara then asked him to send it in. He did. Omara received the next business day. Dropped it into his file. Forgot about it.

OK....I need to put on my boots.

 

[ttwtt78640]

How do you know Zimmerman didn't try to restrain Martin until the cops got there?

If he tried, does Martin have the right to defend himself then?

The state must prove that GZ initiated the aggression, it is not up to the defense to prove that he did not. That simple fact seems to escape those that feel that some great evil was done by GZ leaving his vehicle to attempt to keep TM's location known so that he could relay that location to the police when they arrived.

 

[Barbarian]

As I stated, whether you see Zimmerman as the aggressor or not, It's doesn't change a thing based on the known evidence.

As for your comment about conservatism and self defense laws, you may be right but the truth is, I have not given either of them any thought or consideration at all... That's because I put the truth, the law and doing what's right ahead of ideology, partisanship and political gain. This case will decide the fate of a man's life and I won't allow possible political ramifications or ideological beliefs to get in the way or taint my objectivity... It's all about the truth, doing what's right and upholding my values and convictions.

Even if that person abuses the laws we created for his own self fulfillment?

Be careful how you answer this.

 

[Barbarian]

The state must prove that GZ initiated the aggression, it is not up to the defense to prove that he did not. That simple fact seems to escape those that feel that some great evil was done by GZ leaving his vehicle to attempt to keep TM's location known so that he could relay that location to the police when they arrived.

I don't know what the outcome of this trial will end up.

But I do know SYG laws has been forever harmed by the action of over zealous individual.

 

[buck]

You must be one really really powerful individual....hell you don't even know your own strength.

Don't know. But if Zimm grabbed Trayvon to restrain him he certainly would have grabbed him harder then I did. There would have been some form of evidence, I suspect.

So you believe in proportionate response to a threat level.

I believe the law says what it says. George is able to react in SD when he is indicating a desire to withdraw (obviously not fighting back and almost certainly screaming for help) or Trayvon escalates the situation in such a way that Zimmerman felt he was in danger of death/serious injury.

I suspect reasonable people would be in fear if someone had just caused a "likely broken nose" bot on top of you hit your head into the sidewalk, gave you bruising all over your face/head and then started reaching for your gun.

 

[buck]

George claims to have grabbed his wrist during the fight. He was being smothered.

It wasn't with much force, it sounded like it was just pinned between his arm.

 

[AlfredENeuman]

The state must prove that GZ initiated the aggression, it is not up to the defense to prove that he did not. That simple fact seems to escape those that feel that some great evil was done by GZ leaving his vehicle to attempt to keep TM's location known so that he could relay that location to the police when they arrived.

You're correct that it's the government's burden to prove this case in court, but I think the question was how do YOU know that this didn't happen. Many people repeat Zimmerman's version of events as if they are fact.

The says things like "his head was being slammed" or "he was attacked" when there are reasons to question this story. The main reason is that he killed another human being and that warrants a skeptical eye for anyone. If Martin had killed Zimmerman with these exact same set of facts, I'd expect him to answer for himself in court and if his story didn't add up, I'd want him convicted.

Back to the original question, you can't say with certainty that he wasn't trying to detain him. Circumstantial evidence suggests he was, which I'd be glad to list if you aren't sick of it by now.

 

[buck]

Back to the original question, you can't say with certainty that he wasn't trying to detain him. Circumstantial evidence suggests he was, which I'd be glad to list if you aren't sick of it by now.

Circumstantial evidence? Fry him!

 

[AlfredENeuman]

I suspect reasonable people would be in fear if someone had just caused a "likely broken nose" bot on top of you hit your head into the sidewalk, gave you bruising all over your face/head and then started reaching for your gun.

He did not have bruising all over his face or head. He went to the PA the next day and had exactly 3 injuries.

1. His nose was "likely broken".
2. Two small lacerations on the back of his head.

No bruising. No headaches. No other symptoms.

 

[Grim17]

You just expressed his innocence, and then say that I won't be able to find a post of yours expressing his innocence or guilt. Lol.

Nice try, but that isn't my belief or my opinion, that's a fact according to our judicial system.

You have started posts complaining about black people, saying the only reason Martin has any supporters is because he is black.

That's a lie.

And black people don't look at the facts or evidence, just the color of the Trayvon's skin.

For the majority of black people, that unfortunatly seems to be the case... You are welcome to try and prove me wrong, but it will only be a waste of your time.

Go on, Grim, and try to pretend that you never argued that Trayvon deserved to die because he made Zimmerman scared for his life.

I have never said, nor do I believe, that Martin deserved to die... You either substanciate that bull****, or retract it... That's assuming of course you have the honesty and integrity to do so.

It wouldn't surprise me if you have donated.to his defense find.

I never have, never will and have never for one second entertained the idea.

 

[AlfredENeuman]

Circumstantial evidence? Fry him!

People are convicted with circumstantial evidence every day. Are you suggesting we should disallow that in our court system?

Or just for Zimmerman?