jallman said:
I dont spin anything. I simply disseminate truth against your misinformation.
On the contrary, you've been trying to spin your way out the truth for some time now.
jallman said:
I dont think he punished anyone at all. I think that a primitive people thinking they were being guided by the hand of God wrote laws that are now seen as completely irrelevant.
No, these "primitive people" did not create these laws. They were given directly by God. If you truly believed the Bible, you would recognize that fact.
jallman said:
You may scream perversion from the mountain tops, but I doubt God will take up your chant. I suppose we will see on Judgement Day, wont we?
We will, but God forbid that our disagreement should persist until then. It will be far too late for you, friend.
jallman said:
I dont need your reference...I have a Bible and a concordance handy, thank you. I have read the Bible cover to cover. I have taken surveys of both testaments and I have taken histories of the book as a whole. Catechism taught me quite a bit and then further study at the University. In the end, there is but one law in the Bible. All the rest is extraneous. Homework assignment...find that law. Begin applying it to your own life and be well. :mrgreen:
If you are going to start handing out homework assignments, you need to know enough to teach the subject. There are TWO sum laws in the Bible, and the rest is not extraneous (God is not a fan of wasted words), but supplies us with the details of those two laws. Since I doubt that you'd seriously do any homework assignment where the answer might contradict your views, and I'm more interested in your education, I'll go ahead and give them to you. The first one is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and all your strength. This involves making a genuine effort to obey His commandments and accepting the sacrifice that He made for your shortcomings, shortcomings that you have repented of. The second is to love your neighbor (i.e., your fellow human) as you love yourself. The sad thing is that many on both sides of this issue have focused on one commandment and ignored the other. Extremists on the anti-homosexual side believe that only the first law matters ,that God hates gays, and that we should too. People who believe that homosexuality is acceptable under Christianity focus on the second law and try to twist the first.
jallman said:
Hmmm...so I guess the warlords in Africa are who God wants. Oh, and Hamas and Hussein and any other number of dictators and monsters who get power.
God gives them a chance to do the right thing, even if He knows that they won't. Again, that's the whole story of the human race (up to this point).
jallman said:
Still not buying it. Your point has been dismissed.
Well, it's a shame that you're dismissing the notion that the Bible actually means what it says, but I can't say I'm surprised.
jallman said:
God actually said nothing in the New Testament save for John 3:16.
You and I both (and anyone who has read the Gospels) know that's not true.
jallman said:
Jesus Christ was oddly silent on the topic of homosexuality.
How is this odd? Jesus was silent on many things in the New Testament because the Jews (who Jesus was preaching to) considered it to be a given. However, in His infinite wisdom, God had Paul list it in the New Testament as a sexual perversion.
jallman said:
Repeal of the dietary laws just shows that God can change his mind.
God didn't change His mind. The circumstances around those laws changed. God says in Malachi 3:6 that He does not change.
jallman said:
Some of the dietary laws (such as the consumption of fish without scales and fins) were called perversions and abominations, yet they are not anymore. Thus, what he calls a perversion in one place may not be in another. Thank you for proving my point.
Not so fast, sparky. The consumption of finless and scaleless fish were not called perversions. There is nothing in the Old Testament that was called a perversion, yet is acceptable under the New Testament. Your point is false.
jallman said:
Likewise. Word of advice: the Bible is not a tool, it is an inspiration.
II Timothy 3:16,17
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
The Bible is indeed a tool - a tool on how to live.
jallman said:
I think you would be much happier if you used it as such.
Yes, people would be much happier if the laws of the land were suggestions. Yet, such is not the case.
jallman said:
Go back and read the post again. This time try to apply a little more comprehension and a little less :spin:
Any person who uses both hemispheres of their brain would take your proclamations of Biblical knowledge as claims that you are some sort of Bible expert.
jallman said:
I never said it didnt mean what it says...only that what it means is irrelevant to an evolving spirituality...a spirituality which God has blessed.
Since when has God blessed an "evolving spirituality?" What applies in one century applies in another until God says otherwise.
jallman said:
I refuse to discuss this aspect with you any longer. History says one thing, you say another...
On the contrary, I have posted links showing you what history says about the Church at the time. It does not back your logic for that portion of Scripture. At the end of the day, however, you'll believe whatever you want to believe, so there's no point in arguing this any further.
jallman said:
I am gonne just go with history and call it a day.
Good, it's glad to see you admit that you were wrong...
jallman said:
Oh good one...did you get that retort from one of your sunday school students?
Nope, just following your assertion logically. :lol:
jallman said:
I believe it is all relative.
Relative to what?
jallman said:
I believe that God makes perfect creations and if in his perfection he made you willfully ignorant and abusive of his word, then he will not hold you accountable for serving the purpose he intended.
God makes perfect creations, but those creations are often perverted. Humans were created perfect, yet sin corrupted human nature and gave humans the tendency to do things that God did not intend them to do. These things are known as sins, and no person who refuses to acknowledge or repent of their sins can be saved.
jallman said:
So then you don't believe that Christianity can go extinct...
Did I ever say that?
Yes, you did:
jallman in Post #251 said:
battleax86 said:
A fighting chance? You talk like Christianity has a chance of going extinct. :lol:
It does. And if Christians keep acting the way they are, this will likely be the generation of its last decline.
jallman said:
Never did I mock the word of God...but I did mock you.
You were mocking the idea that God speaks to people through prayer, an idea espoused by the Word of God.
jallman said:
No, it is not. Truth is made of facts, not perceptions or opinions. A person's perceptions are often far from the truth.
jallman said:
The truth was that the world was flat at one time. That perception changed.
The perception changed, but the truth didn't. The fact that people
believed that the world was flat didn't make it true.
jallman said:
The truth was that unless you were a levite, you could not go past the holy of holies, but that changed and the truth is, the holy of holies was ripped asunder at Christs last breath.
That was a change in circumstances, namely the payment of humanity's debt, not in perceptions. You see, under Circumstance Set A, the Truth will always be X, regardless of perceptions. Under Circumstance Set B, the Truth will always be Y. Perceptions do not change the truth.
jallman said:
The truth was that man could not eat pork, shellfish, certain fowl without offending God. As you showed, the truth now is that it doesnt matter.
Again, because the circumstances have changed.
jallman said:
Yes, please do. I'd love to know what circumstances have changed to make homosexuality acceptable, where it was an unnatural perversion before...
jallman said:
I misunderstood nothing. You are back-pedaling your answer.
No, I'm not. I am clarifying an answer that you clearly misunderstood.
jallman said:
I love to see a Jesus freak (not a Christian, but a Jesus freak) stumbling over his own words.
I was not stumbling over any of my own words. I was correcting your attempt to twist them.
