What is your take on gays?

[shuamort]

Last time I checked Merriam-Webster (which was 3 months ago) it still stated that marriage was between one man and one woman.

Here's a post of mine from 05-26-2005, 09:08 PM

Of course, if you go to m-w.com (that's Merriam Webster) you'll see this:

a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage> b : the mutual relation of married persons : WEDLOCK c : the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage

You want me to serve up that crow or are you full?

Ironically, the last line is still applicable.

 

[doughgirl]

” Procreation does not insure a constant outcome.”

Yes it does. Can two female by having sex produce a child? NO
Can two males having sex produce a child? NO
Can one female and one male produce a child? YES

That remains constant. That is the ONLY WAY TO CREATE A LIVING HUMAN BEING. ONE WOMAN AND ONE MAN :2razz:

How do you define normal jallman? You give us your definition. I asked you and I’ll ask again…….is bestiality normal? I do not think homosexuality is normal based on our biological functions.

Define normal for us.

I will not bring up abortion but you really do not know what you are talking about. Obviously you have no clue to statistics of how many women died from coat hangers. Very few. The majority of abortions done before its legalization in 1973 were done in compatent physicians offices. My point for bring abortion up was the fact that before its legalization people viewed abortion as wrong. If you were a woman who had one you surely didn’t make mention to someone else that you did. Today, having an abortion is like wearing a badge of courage. It's an honor. The legalization of abortion is what made it acceptable. Biologically speaking when you have an abortion YOU TERMINATE A LIFE. Tell me what happens if you stop a heart that is beating?

About celibacy. Celibacy is not a sin. Homosexuality, bestiality, adultery, stealing, coveting, worshipping idols, lust are all sins.

Captain said, “I'm doomed to an eternity in hell........”

Those sins don’t send you to hell. Only one sin does and that is to deny Christ as Lord and Savior.

 

[shuamort]

So far I haven't seen anywhere in the Bible where it says that masturbation is a sin, nor have I found that sex before marriage is a sin. Until I find those in there, I'll just assume that they a Catholic doctrine, and not God's true word. And you just assumed that I masturbate? Your assumption was correct, for I'm a lonely man who needs a woman, but can't find one yet that will put up with my crap. lol

Well, some people believe that the sin of Onan was masturbation and is why God killed him. Thus sprang the term: Onanism.

NOUN: 1. Masturbation. 2. Coitus interruptus.
ETYMOLOGY: After Onan, son of Judah (Genesis 38:9).

Genesis 38:9
Onan knew that the seed wouldn't be his; and it happened, when he went in to his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest he should give seed to his brother. (WEB)

Also, the greek terms malakoi and arsenokoitai used to be defined as masturbation, (actually they mean soft) but due to political pressures and changing climates, they've been replaced in some versions as homosexuality. These can be found in Corinthians 6:9 (No comments from the peanut gallery on the number).

Leviticus 15:16-18 also deal with the "uncleanliness" of cum.
"And if a man has an emission of semen, he shall bathe his whole body in water, and be unclean until the evening. And every garment and every skin on which the semen comes shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the evening. If a man lies with a woman and has an emission of semen, both of them shall bathe themselves in water and be unclean until the evening." (Leviticus 15:16-18 RSV)

 

[Captain America]

Those sins don’t send you to hell. Only one sin does and that is to deny Christ as Lord and Savior.

Then it's a good thing that there's no such thing as hell either....:rofl

Ever heard of the "wages of sin"...Father Guido Sarducci says that penance for masturbation is thirty-five cents....that adds up quick... :shock:

 

[jallman]

Yes it does. Can two female by having sex produce a child? NO
Can two males having sex produce a child? NO
Can one female and one male produce a child? YES

That remains constant. That is the ONLY WAY TO CREATE A LIVING HUMAN BEING. ONE WOMAN AND ONE MAN :2razz:

No, it does not. The final product of procreation can is certainly one child; you arent giving any insight by stating the obvious. However, that child is not a replica and so the outcome of procreation is not a constant. I do so much enjoy it when you cant muster anything more than rhetoric followed by a smugness at your own lack of depth. :2razz:

How do you define normal jallman? You give us your definition. I asked you and I’ll ask again…….is bestiality normal? I do not think homosexuality is normal based on our biological functions.

So am I again to state the obvious for you? I have better things to do.

Define normal for us.

There is no need to define normal within the context of this discussion as normalcy is relative and has nothing to do with issues such as equality and personal choice.

I will not bring up abortion but you really do not know what you are talking about. Obviously you have no clue to statistics of how many women died from coat hangers. Very few. The majority of abortions done before its legalization in 1973 were done in compatent physicians offices. My point for bring abortion up was the fact that before its legalization people viewed abortion as wrong. If you were a woman who had one you surely didn’t make mention to someone else that you did. Today, having an abortion is like wearing a badge of courage. It's an honor. The legalization of abortion is what made it acceptable. Biologically speaking when you have an abortion YOU TERMINATE A LIFE. Tell me what happens if you stop a heart that is beating?

Here we go with stating the obvious with the smug air of showing some sort of insight. The coat-hanger example was called hyperbole...look it up if you dont know the meaning, but being a pro-liar I am sure you are familiar with it's use. Sort of like when you assert that having an abortion is a badge of honor. We have strong disagreements as to the personhood of an embryo and we can stop there unless you want to hash it out in an abortion thread. Although last time, when I called you out on a fierce double-standard, I never got a response.

About celibacy. Celibacy is not a sin. Homosexuality, bestiality, adultery, stealing, coveting, worshipping idols, lust are all sins.

Sin or not, it undermines the "natural order". Are you conceding that the "natural law" argument is flawed?

 

[shuamort]

Well is bestiality normal? I hope you would say no. But then how do you define “normal”? Is incest normal?

Careful there, you're distorting the context of the argument. He stated natural and not normal. They're two separate concepts and could be debated different ways.

I mentioned them because they are all illegal. Abortion used to be illegal. Society looked at abortion as being immoral and wrong. It was legalized and now look how society views abortion.

It used to be illegal to posit a non-geocentric universe. It was immoral and wrong to go against the church's beliefs. Galileo Galilei was punished for said belief into a life in prison. Society evolves for the better.

The Bible doesn’t compromise its standards to comply with social trends and opinions, trying to be politically correct.

Sure it does. Look at my above post where the meanings of words have changed in the translations of the bible.

The Bible says homosexuality is wrong.

The books of the Bible were written long before the term homosexuality was invented. So, it couldn't have said that specifically.

It is extermly clear that the actions and lifestyle are not acceptable to God.

Trying to step away from that….if you look back on past civilizations some things are pretty clear. Look at Rome and Greece before they fell. Look at what was happening some 2000 years ago.
Compare then to now…………today.

I’ll mention a few examples.

Marriage lost its sacredness and was frequently broken by divorce.
The traditional marriage was lost and alternative forms of marriage arose.
The feminist movements started.
There was increased public disrespect for parents, and authority.
There was an increase in juvenile delinquency, promiscuity….
There was acceptance of adultery and a tolerance for and a spread of sexual perversion of all kinds. I say all kinds not just homosexuality.

These things helped to destroy a culture. It’s the way other empires went down as well.

There are a lot of causalities and effects you're listing but it's just random things that don't have a lot of weight, sense, or relevance. Look at very religious countries that murder adulterers like this story:

On 22 March 2002, Amina Lawal had been sentenced to stoning to death by a Sharia court in Bakori in the Katsina State of northern Nigeria. She had allegedly confessed to having had a child while divorced. Under the new Sharia-based penal code, which applies to Muslims only, pregnancy outside of marriage constitutes sufficient evidence for a woman to be convicted of adultery.

Do you believe that to be a good thing?

I saved this website that I came across a while back………(http://www.massnews.com/2003_Editio..._not_the_equal_of_heterosexual_marriage.shtml)

It has a lot to say.

Yup. Sure does. A lot of gay men are sluts. Of course, if you stay up late at night and watch Joey Greco on Cheaters™, you'll see a lot of slutty straight folk too. The crux of that article is assumptive by saying that since some gays are into open sexual relationships instead of being monogamous, they don't deserve to be married. Of course, the article focuses on that point and ignores swingers clubs for married heterosexuals for instance. Why? Is it to further a cause or to write a fair article? My guess is the former and not the latter.

 

[shuamort]

Yes it does. Can two female by having sex produce a child? NO
Can two males having sex produce a child? NO
Can one female and one male produce a child? YES

That remains constant. That is the ONLY WAY TO CREATE A LIVING HUMAN BEING. ONE WOMAN AND ONE MAN

I've posted this before:

As reported in the journal Science and explained in The Washington Post, scientists have used mouse embryonic stem cells to create mouse eggs in the laboratory. Interestingly, the mouse eggs were created from both male and female cells -- indicating that males have the biological capacity to produce eggs, the Post said.
If duplicated in humans, homosexual couples theoretically could attempt to have their own biological child -- with one man supplying the sperm and the other man supplying the laboratory-produced eggs having his biological material. A surrogate mother would be necessary to carry the baby.

So, the answer has been changed.

 

[doughgirl]

Captain America, “Then it's a good thing that there's no such thing as hell either.... ”

You positive? 100% positive? I guess you better pray there isn’t for your sake eh. Think you could prove it?



Jallman, you simply can’t and are afraid of defining NORMAL. Because if you do you will back yourself up into a corner.

I asked you one simple question……….HOW do you define NORMAL?

Homosexuality is not normal in my opinion. Obviously in your opinion it is.

Ok you avoided defining NORMAL……….see if you can handle this question?

Is bestiality normal? A simple yes or no will do. Surely you can tackle this one.

 

[Captain America]

You positive? 100% positive? I guess you better pray there isn’t for your sake eh. Think you could prove it?

Well, since there is nothing there to prove, I'll just have to fall back on logic and common sense. It's gotten me this far. It will just have to do.:2wave:

 

[shuamort]

You positive? 100% positive? I guess you better pray there isn’t for your sake eh. Think you could prove it?



Jallman, you simply can’t and are afraid of defining NORMAL. Because if you do you will back yourself up into a corner.

I asked you one simple question……….HOW do you define NORMAL?

Homosexuality is not normal in my opinion. Obviously in your opinion it is.

Ok you avoided defining NORMAL……….see if you can handle this question?

Is bestiality normal? A simple yes or no will do. Surely you can tackle this one.

M-W.com's relevent definition says normal is:
2 a : according with, constituting, or not deviating from a norm, rule, or principle b : conforming to a type, standard, or regular pattern

Is left handed normal? Since the majority of the world is born right handed, how could left handed be normal? What should be done with these left handed people? Should they be allowed to marry since they're not normal? Should they be shunned again? On one count, the bible contains over 100 favourable reference to the right-hand and 25 unfavourable references to the left-hand. E.g.: The right hand of the lord doeth valiantly, the right hand of the lord is exalted (Psalm 118 vv15,16)

 

[steen]

Last time I checked Merriam-Webster (which was 3 months ago) it still stated that marriage was between one man and one woman. But I see that the dictionary has givin in to the ridicule of the pro-gay marriage movement. It is a shame though.

How weird. Earlier, you stated that: "Irrational you say? How is it irrational to be against gays marrying? I'm just following the Merriam-Webster definition of marriage,"

So you are now admitting that you are NOT "just following" the dictionary definition, but rather used it as an excuse for your otherwise held position.

Why were you initially dishonest in your claim? Didn't yur God tell you to not bear false witness?

 

[steen]

Yes I am going to change it. How can you blame for not knowing that the website gave in to the demands of the gay-marriage movement?

But you stated very emphatically that you are "just following" the dictionary. So obviously that was NOT true, or you would have changed your view along with the dictionary. Perhaps you didn't know the meaning of "following"?

 

[jfuh]

Yes it does. Can two female by having sex produce a child? NO
Can two males having sex produce a child? NO
Can one female and one male produce a child? YES

That remains constant. That is the ONLY WAY TO CREATE A LIVING HUMAN BEING. ONE WOMAN AND ONE MAN :2razz:

Not entirely true. Through natural means yes, but through artificial means any two people (even if they are dead) can combine to form a new human entity.

How do you define normal jallman? You give us your definition. I asked you and I’ll ask again…….is bestiality normal? I do not think homosexuality is normal based on our biological functions.

beastiality and homosexuality are completely incomparable. Perhaps you do not fully understand the meaning of free will and consent.

About celibacy. Celibacy is not a sin. Homosexuality, bestiality, adultery, stealing, coveting, worshipping idols, lust are all sins.

Celibacy is the most un-natural act in the animal kingdom.

Those sins don’t send you to hell. Only one sin does and that is to deny Christ as Lord and Savior.

Wow, can we say antisemitic?

 

[jfuh]

You positive? 100% positive? I guess you better pray there isn’t for your sake eh. Think you could prove it?

No more then you can proove there is a hell.

Homosexuality is not normal in my opinion. Obviously in your opinion it is.

Fortunatley for most of the population in the world, we really couldn't care less about what two consenting adults do in the privacy of thier own bed room. Should they choose PDA it's just looked on as odd but not condemed or frowned upon as you are.

 

[i believe in tranquility]

Well is bestiality normal? I hope you would say no. But then how do you define “normal”? Is incest normal?

You are completely off topic, and NO bestiality is NOT normal. Why do you stray off topic. Insect is NOT normal.

Tell me how these homosexual animals came to be? How were they conceived? Nature by way of homosexual sex or the opposite sex mating?

These homosexual animals "came to be" in your words from different possibilities. ONE: two animals has intercourse and then the baby is homosexual. TWO: God made the animals homosexual.....because doesnt "God" create everything?


SORRY ABOUT POSTING SO LATE....its like i leave for an hour and my post gets buried in two pages of other stuff..lol

 

[jfuh]

Tell me how these homosexual animals came to be? How were they conceived? Nature by way of homosexual sex or the opposite sex mating?

This matters how?

I mentioned them because they are all illegal. Abortion used to be illegal. Society looked at abortion as being immoral and wrong. It was legalized and now look how society views abortion.

Today millions of women around the world finally break free from the restraints put on them through unwanted pregnancies. Finally they have the legal authority to choose of what to make of thier own bodies.

First off I am not Catholic. I grew up Presbyterian and we had a married pastor who had 4 children. I now go to a praise and worship non-denominational church and the pastor is married and has one child. We have 4 other pastors in the church…three are married and one is a youth pastor who is not married.

Doesn't matter what christian denomination you are. It is when you use religion as the reason to influence someone elses freedom of choice that it becomes an issue. Particularily when a state is governed by secular laws.

What is wrong with celibacy? [/QUOTE
It's the most un-natural act in the animal kingdom.

I do not believe that if a person chooses not have sex and chooses to devote his life to Christ that that is so wrong.(Or devotes his life to something else even if its not religion.) For many people sex is not everything. God did create sex as a blessing and something to be enjoyed by those married…BUT…He sees nothing wrong with people who do not get married who do not have sex.

Here's the pinnacle of your fallacy, your god is omnibenevolent and granted free choice to the most prized creation, yet then your bible (written by man) condems the choices made by anyone that differs from mainstream when it comes to sexuality. I'm not talking about your nonsense beastiality or pedophiles, I'm talking of the choices of two consenting adults-- hypocrits.

First let me say one thing. I am a Christian and I will be honest and admit it is hard for me to distance myself from being a Christian…because I hold daily to a Christian worldview.
My actions and thoughts are based on this view. I believe everyone has a worldview and the Christian one happens to be mine. I believe the Bible to be Gods word and the authority on how I am supposed to live. I think that many people try to make the Bible line up with THEIR choices, rather than aligning THEIR choices with the Bible. I believe the Bible is specific about moral, social and ethical issues. For me the real question is not, what does the Bible say, but its will I obey Gods word. And for some if it doesn’t align with what they are doing, (especially sinning), they try to make excuses and they try to change scripture to make what they are doing acceptable. Sin is sin. I believe we can talk about homosexuality until the cows come home but that will NOT ALTER the Word of God. The Bible doesn’t compromise its standards to comply with social trends and opinions, trying to be politically correct. The Bible says homosexuality is wrong. It is extermly clear that the actions and lifestyle are not acceptable to God. Sexual sin whether heterosexual or homosexual usually ends up hurting someone. Homosexuality is no worse than any other sin. It’s just the topic we are discussing in this thread.

It's no matter of what sin homosexuality is, it's when you condem then that then there is a problem. They respect your choice of heterosexuality, why can you not respect thiers? This has nothing to do with PC, it's strictly the respect of another's choice.

A lot of people are struggling to break free from sex sin in their lives. I believe that God loves everybody-heterosexuals and homosexuals, lesbians. We are equal before Him so our attitude should be one of love and compassion based on Gods Word, towards anyone who is living an active life of sin.

Thus being said, so what's the problem?

Trying to step away from that….if you look back on past civilizations some things are pretty clear. Look at Rome and Greece before they fell. Look at what was happening some 2000 years ago.
Compare then to now…………today.

What about Rome and greece before they fell?

Marriage lost its sacredness and was frequently broken by divorce.

Freeing women to not be condemed by a wrong choice they made with abusive husbands. Why should two people who are just different and abusive be bound eternaly?

The traditional marriage was lost and alternative forms of marriage arose.

Define traditional marriage, just what has been the outcome of "alternate forms of marriage"?

The feminist movements started.

This is bad how? Would you rather be wrapped from head to toe then?

There was increased public disrespect for parents, and authority.

Can you cite the former?
There has always been disrespect for authority and I would hardly use that as justification against anything.

There was an increase in juvenile delinquency, promiscuity….

If you want to look at promiscuity, monogomy is really a more modern day thing then it was of the past.

There was acceptance of adultery and a tolerance for and a spread of sexual perversion of all kinds.

Or is it that the religious insitutions have become more stuck up about such. Back in the "good ol days" sexuality was very open and accepted. Just not female sexuality in a patriarchial society.

I say all kinds not just homosexuality.

Un related

These things helped to destroy a culture. It’s the way other empires went down as well.

Yes it's because of sex that caused empires to disappear into history, not because of corruption, greed, near-sighted and incompetence of the leaders.

 

[jallman]

Jallman, you simply can’t and are afraid of defining NORMAL. Because if you do you will back yourself up into a corner.

I love it. The definition of normal is readily available to you through a number of sources. I am not going to waste my time stating the obvious.

I asked you one simple question……….HOW do you define NORMAL?

And I answered your question, but here I will again. I feel no need to define normal within the context of this discussion. Normal is relative. Normalcy is not relevant when discussing personal choice and liberty.

Homosexuality is not normal in my opinion. Obviously in your opinion it is.

Hey...could that be the whole relativism thing I was talking about? :lol:

Ok you avoided defining NORMAL……….see if you can handle this question?

I avoided nothing. And shuamort seemed to do nicely at catering to your need for having irrelevant but obvious information stated for you when he posted the MW definition. I can handle any question you ask so long as you make it relevant in the future.

Is bestiality normal? A simple yes or no will do. Surely you can tackle this one.

Another irrelevant question. Discussions concerning homosexuality do not necessitate a discussion on bestiality. I will refuse to acknowledge all attempts to cloud the issue with such nonsense.

 

[doughgirl]

“You are completely off topic, and NO bestiality is NOT normal. Why do you stray off topic.”

I happen to believe that homosexuality is not normal. So why am I off topic? We were talking about things that are not normal.

What basis can you say that bestiality is not normal?

Jfuh said,” Doesn't matter what christian denomination you are. It is when you use religion as the reason to influence someone elses freedom of choice that it becomes an issue. Particularily when a state is governed by secular laws.”

Yes it does. There are many differences between being Presbyterian and being Catholic. I no more use my religion to influence others than any atheist tries to use his. You talk about choice and secular laws………

Answer these if you are not afraid.

Bestiality should be legalized?
Incest should be legalized?
Child pornography should be legalized?
Polygamy should be legalized?

If you answered no to any of these……….explain why?

Then explain why you are not being tolerant of those who participate in them.

Jfuh said, “I'm not talking about your nonsense beastiality or pedophiles, I'm talking of the choices of two consenting adults-- hypocrits.”

Why do you think the two you mention are wrong? So if a consenting adult wants to have sex with barnyard animals you think its ok?

“It's no matter of what sin homosexuality is, it's when you condem then that then there is a problem. They respect your choice of heterosexuality, why can you not respect thiers?”

I mentioned that I did not think homosexuality was any worse than any other sin. Anyone who sins is in the same boat. We are discussing homosexuality here. You want to bring up adultery………..I’d say the same things about that.

If two people want to be homosexual and live a homosexual lifestyle fine. If they want to live this lifestyle and call themselves Christian and think that God condones what they do…………that is what I have a problem with. God doesn’t condone their homosexual choice. That would be like my pastor preaching that it’s ok to commit adultery. Throw the bible out and make up the rules that fits your lifestyle.

Jallman said, “Normal is relative. Normalcy is not relevant when discussing personal choice and liberty.”

You mean if it fits what YOU THINK IS NORMAL? Ok then personal choice………..Polygamy should be legalized? Yes or no?
Incest should be legalized? Why are you all so afraid of answering these? ha ha Its not irrelevant at all. And in the years ahead we might just be discussing legalization of these. You all stand so firmly on free choice.......why not make them legal?

“Another irrelevant question. Discussions concerning homosexuality do not necessitate a discussion on bestiality. I will refuse to acknowledge all attempts to cloud the issue with such nonsense.”

You can’t answer this question then your back would be against the wall and you know it. You refuse to answer because your answer would more than likely be its not normal then you wouldn’t appear to be to tolerant to those consenting adults who think bestiality is fine.

This threads title is what is your take on gays…………I am giving it.

 

[i believe in tranquility]

What basis can you say that bestiality is not normal?

Because animals do not willfully some to humans and try to have sexual intercourse. Humans do. That is why bestiality is "bad".

 

[steen]

I am a "pro-gay" advocate but only from the standpoint of advancing liberty and equality in America. That's my view of a better America. Liberty, freedom and equality. That's the American way and I think all good Americans should agree.

As is true for al activities between concenting adults. The Government has no business there.

But Missouri Mule is right about one thing for sure. The thought of two dudes gettin' it on is absolutely disgusting in my personal opinion. But I don't think my personal opinion should be forced upon them at the cost of liberty, freedom and equality. That's just downright un-American in my opinion.

Agreed. Lots of things disgust me, particularly in the area of conservative politics, but I sure as hell don't want it restricted.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Then it's a good thing that there's no such thing as hell either....:rofl

Ever heard of the "wages of sin"...Father Guido Sarducci says that penance for masturbation is thirty-five cents....that adds up quick... :shock:

How do you know that? Where do you think Hitler is right now? If there is no afterlife what is the purpose of having a conscience? It would seem to be a hindrance to having a perfectly happy life. We would simply do whatever we wanted to do without regard to the consequences.

 

[jfuh]

I happen to believe that homosexuality is not normal. So why am I off topic? We were talking about things that are not normal.

What basis can you say that bestiality is not normal?

you're really into beastiality aren't you? Why you keep bringing it up? COmpletely different from homosexuality.

Yes it does. There are many differences between being Presbyterian and being Catholic. I no more use my religion to influence others than any atheist tries to use his.

Argumentative fallacy of ad hominem tu quoque. Not to mention it's not my argument at all.

You talk about choice and secular laws………

Yes I do, where's your response?

Answer these if you are not afraid.

Be afraid be very very afraid. Fallacy of argumentum ad metum

Bestiality should be legalized?
Incest should be legalized?
Child pornography should be legalized?
Polygamy should be legalized?

If you answered no to any of these……….explain why?

1) No
2) shouldn't be but it actually is legal in many states.
3) no
4) shouldn't be but it is if you're in Utah.
Here you are making the fallacy of juxtaposition.

Then explain why you are not being tolerant of those who participate in them.

Fallacy of ad hominem tu quoque.
But why do I feel these should not be tolerated? 2 ~3 out of the 4 are without consent.
Then again 2 of the 4 are also legal.

Why do you think the two you mention are wrong? So if a consenting adult wants to have sex with barnyard animals you think its ok?

Barnyard animals, which you seem obsessed over, can not consent.
Do you know what consent means? here let me show you the deffinition.

Main Entry: 1con·sent
Pronunciation: k&n-'sent
Function: intransitive verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin consentire, from com- + sentire to feel -- more at SENSE
1 : to give assent or approval : AGREE
2 archaic : to be in concord in opinion or sentiment
synonym see ASSENT
- con·sent·er noun
- con·sent·ing·ly /-'sen-ti[ng]-lE/ adverb

Both sides need to consent, not just one.

I mentioned that I did not think homosexuality was any worse than any other sin. Anyone who sins is in the same boat. We are discussing homosexuality here. You want to bring up adultery………..I’d say the same things about that.
If two people want to be homosexual and live a homosexual lifestyle fine. If they want to live this lifestyle and call themselves Christian and think that God condones what they do…………that is what I have a problem with. God doesn’t condone their homosexual choice. That would be like my pastor preaching that it’s ok to commit adultery. Throw the bible out and make up the rules that fits your lifestyle.

1) you're avoiding the argument I presented.
2) The bible itself was made up by man.

You mean if it fits what YOU THINK IS NORMAL? Ok then personal choice………..Polygamy should be legalized? Yes or no?

It is legalized, take stroll in Utah. Go to Saudi Arabia it is legal. But again, this is juxtaposition. Homosexuality is very legal

Incest should be legalized? Why are you all so afraid of answering these? ha ha Its not irrelevant at all. And in the years ahead we might just be discussing legalization of these. You all stand so firmly on free choice.......why not make them legal?

Incest is legal, many states in the US allow for even the marriage rights of cousins or siblings. But again, juxtaposition.

You can’t answer this question then your back would be against the wall and you know it. You refuse to answer because your answer would more than likely be its not normal then you wouldn’t appear to be to tolerant to those consenting adults who think bestiality is fine.

CONSENT!! My goodness do you not know what it means?

 

[doughgirl]

“Because animals do not willfully some to humans and try to have sexual intercourse. Humans do. That is why bestiality is "bad".”

Isn’t that just your opinion?

Jfuh said,” you're really into bestiality aren't you? Why you keep bringing it up? Completely different from homosexuality.”

Not if you think both are not normal. I think bestiality is sick. I think child pornography is sick and not normal, I think S&M is sick and not normal.….. but there are those who think they are not. When you say they are sick, it makes you judgmental doesn’t it? What about the freedom to choose? You think I am not right in thinking that homosexuality is wrong....I am not tolerant. What does it make you if you say bestiality is wrong or polygamy or incest? Are you tolerant?

“Argumentative fallacy of ad hominem tu quoque. Not to mention it's not my argument at all.”

I believe you made mention way back that by being a Christian I was brought up in my faith believing that you had to be celibate if you were clergy. That might be true if you are a Catholic but it is not true of any other Christian denomination that I know of. I was brought up in a church that believed Gods plan for man and woman.

Ok talking about consent………

You said, “Barnyard animals, which you seem obsessed over, can not consent.”

So you would be for banning all types of hunting and fishing..the killing of animals for any reason? BECAUSE I AM NOT AWARE THAT THEY CAN CONSENT TO DIE consent for hunters to kill them. Do they? Are there forms they fill out saying its ok to slaughter them?

Consent nothing. Animals are beneath us aren’t they? Or do you think they deserve the rights humans have? If so then you would have to ban eating them. That goes for any living creature…..fish, animals, birds……..everything. THEY DO NOT GIVE CONSENT.

And you would have to prosecute anyone who killed a mosquito or fly wouldnt you?

“The bible itself was made up by man.”

Well..the majority of mankind has believed that God was the inspiration of the Bible. That the Bible was the divine WORD OF GOD, HIS LOVE LETTER TO THOSE WHO FOLLOWED HIM. And you can’t prove that it is not just that.

Polygamy…….

Here go read these sites ……http://www.absalom.com/mormon/polygamy/utah-law.htm

Ever hear of Tom Green? http://www.uwire.com/content/topnews052201002.html

“After a week-long trial, Green was convicted of four counts of bigamy and one count of criminal nonsupport. Green announced plans to appeal the decision and said he will take the case to the Utah Supreme Court if necessary.”

Why would he do this if polygamy was legal? Ya better read up on this hon because it is not legal.

“It is legalized, take stroll in Utah. Go to Saudi Arabia it is legal. But again, this is juxtaposition. Homosexuality is very legal”

My sister lives in Utah. It’s not legal. And since when did Saudi Arabia join America? We are talking about the United States and our laws. Homosexuality IS LEGAL BUT SAME SEX MARRIAGE IS NOT.

http://supreme.lp.findlaw.com/supreme_court/briefs/02-102/02-102.mer.ami.clji.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incest (In New York state for example, the maximum penalty is four years in prison)

 

[Captain America]

How do you know that? Where do you think Hitler is right now? If there is no afterlife what is the purpose of having a conscience? It would seem to be a hindrance to having a perfectly happy life. We would simply do whatever we wanted to do without regard to the consequences.

How do we know there really is no Santa or Easter Bunny? Sure, common sense might tell us one thing, but you never know. I'm just going off of logic, laws of physics, historical facts, and coming up with a conclusion that I can wrap my head around and live with.

I mean, common sense and logic and laws of physics are somewhat tangable and dictate that the myths of religion are just that. Myths of religion. Now, on the other hand, faith, belief, hope, superstition are abstract and it requires a certain type of person to put their money on that. I am simply saying that I am not that person. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's hard for me to believe that it's a llama.

It would seem to be a hindrance to having a perfectly happy life. We would simply do whatever we wanted to do without regard to the consequences.

First, let me say that I have known you longer than any other cybor friend I have ever known on the internet and I don't think for a second that you stand behind that ideology. Neither you nor I need any religion as a crutch to do whats right. Neither you nor I are law abiding citizens, good parents, good husbands, good neighbors, and responsible citizens due to a fear of burning in the lake of fire for eternity.:shock:

We are all of those things because they are the right things to do and be. You do not think for one second that, had it not been for the bible or the fear of hell, that you would have turned out to be a murderer, thief, adulterer or rapist.

But I know you posted that to get me to spell it out. You have a way of encouraging conversation and to bring particular viewpoints to the surface. That's why you posted it. That's why I've been tagging along behind you for all these years old friend.

Tell me I'm wrong.


PS...Where is Hitler at right now? Well, assuming his death wasn't faked and he's not living it up as a super old playboy somewhere down in Argentina,:rofl my best guess would be that Hitler is now at the same place he was at before he was born. Non-existance-ville.

 

[shuamort]

My sister lives in Utah. It’s not legal. And since when did Saudi Arabia join America? We are talking about the United States and our laws. Homosexuality IS LEGAL BUT SAME SEX MARRIAGE IS NOT.

Sure it is, Massachusetts has recognized same sex marriage for quite some time now.