What is Un-American? (1 Viewer)

[Spartacus FPV]

The expression gets thrown around way too much here on DP, I know I am guilty of using it from time to time. But the word seems almost meaningless, or subjective to the political platform of the person using it.

What are the American ideals that we all agree on? Sometimes we're so divided as a country, and both sides want to appear patriotic.

It seems to me that the only things I think we can all agree are un-American ideas are: communism, theocracy, and tyranny (oppression.)

Any thoughts?

 

[Sir_Alec]

If that's un-American than very few people on this site are un-American. What a stupid term used by people who have no debate strategy other than name calling and slander.

 

[::Major_Baker::]

I think trampling on the constitution in the name of some perceived morality, and sacrificing freedoms in the name of perceived safety, are both unamerican.

 

[Navy Pride]

I think being un American is constantly putting your country down for bias partisan reasons.......

 

[Captain America]

I think being un American is constantly putting your country down for bias partisan reasons.......

OR...... defending tyranny or oppression for partisan bias reasons....

 

[Navy Pride]

OR...... defending tyranny or oppression for partisan bias reasons....

Whatever that means.......

 

[Sir_Alec]

Whatever that means.......

HA! :rofl :mrgreen: :roll: You really should think before you post.

 

[Navy Pride]

HA! :rofl :mrgreen: :roll: You really should think before you post.

Great contribution to the thread..........:roll:

 

[Spartacus FPV]

Actually NP, you're both right.

Everytime someone makes an issue a left vs right issue, I think that hinders any unity we might have as a nation. The whole "everything is partizan" and "attack the opposing P.O.V." thing is getting quite old.

 

[Sir_Alec]

Like yours really matters anymore than mine. But, seriously a lot of people use the term Un-American to label people they disagree with. I can think of a few such as... Coulter... Savage......... and Limbaugh. I do hear it from both sides more often *cough* Major Baker *cough* Billo *cough cough*, but it mostly comes from social conservatives that are cornered and need an easy label to give to their opponenets.

 

[Captain America]

HA! :rofl :mrgreen: :roll: You really should think before you post.

Hehehehehehehe.......:mrgreen:

 

[Doremus Jessup]

Anyone who questions the Bush II administration. :lol:

 

[Navy Pride]

Actually NP, you're both right.

Everytime someone makes an issue a left vs right issue, I think that hinders any unity we might have as a nation. The whole "everything is partizan" and "attack the opposing P.O.V." thing is getting quite old.

Did you read my post? I did not anything about Republicans or Democrats, Conservatives or Liberals...............I said partisans...

 

[Navy Pride]

Like yours really matters anymore than mine. But, seriously a lot of people use the term Un-American to label people they disagree with. I can think of a few such as... Coulter... Savage......... and Limbaugh. I do hear it from both sides more often *cough* Major Baker *cough* Billo *cough cough*, but it mostly comes from social conservatives that are cornered and need an easy label to give to their opponenets.

I guess one has to ask the question then, Do you hear the people you mentioned calling our troops, little Eichmans, Terrorists, equate them to the Gulag, that we are losing the war, that our military is broken or that our military in Iraq are murderers for partisan reasons? Do you hear anyone on the right making outrageous comments like that?

That is what I consider un american..........

 

[Ethereal]

American = Anti-Federalism. Civil Liberties. Geopolitical non-interference. Free Trade. Scientific Mastery. Multiculturalism. A defensive/reactive military posture. Pay-as-you-go fiscal policy. Free exchange of information. Literary prevelance. Self-responsibility.

Un-American = Fedarlism. Sacrificing Liberty for Security. Geopolitical intervention and policing. Regulated trade. Research monopolies. Xenophobia. Pre-emptive military strikes and an offensive military posture. Deficit spending. Stifling intellectualism. Media dominance. Dependence or reliance upon the government.

As far as I'm concerned the Democrats and Republicans fall under the worst specification on this list...Federalists, which makes them one in the same.

 

[26 X World Champs]

OR...... defending tyranny or oppression for partisan bias reasons....

You took the words right out of my mouth! Good job!

 

[26 X World Champs]

I guess one has to ask the question then, Do you hear the people you mentioned calling our troops, little Eichmans, Terrorists, equate them to the Gulag, that we are losing the war, that our military is broken or that our military in Iraq are murderers for partisan reasons? Do you hear anyone on the right making outrageous comments like that?

That is what I consider un american..........

I consider people who are so blindly loyal to our government that they've lost the ability to remember what American values are to be Un-American.

For example the people who are OK with spying on Americans without a warrant, who are OK with our torturing people, are OK with keeping people in prisons indefinitely without being charged with a crime, with extraordinary rendition where people are secreted in the middle of the night to hostile countries where they are tortured and often killed...

Let's not forget those who would deprive Americans of their right to free speech...those of you who want to prevent Americans from saying things that they disagree with....that's what's Un-American to me....

So what if an individual criticizes our government! I guess you've forgotten that criticizing the government is how America was founded! Anyone who believes "America, Love it or Leave it" is Un-American. Anyone who believes in "America Never Wrong" is Un-American....

 

[Deegan]

I consider people who are so blindly loyal to our government that they've lost the ability to remember what American values are to be Un-American.

For example the people who are OK with spying on Americans without a warrant, who are OK with our torturing people, are OK with keeping people in prisons indefinitely without being charged with a crime, with extraordinary rendition where people are secreted in the middle of the night to hostile countries where they are tortured and often killed...

Let's not forget those who would deprive Americans of their right to free speech...those of you who want to prevent Americans from saying things that they disagree with....that's what's Un-American to me....

So what if an individual criticizes our government! I guess you've forgotten that criticizing the government is how America was founded! Anyone who believes "America, Love it or Leave it" is Un-American. Anyone who believes in "America Never Wrong" is Un-American....

Where did our "God" go, that is really the question, I hope the Senate Chaplin can make this question more out in front, and relevant for all Americans, I hope that can happen one day.


I'm sorry though, I know these things need "debate"!


You stupid humans, it only needs debate when you agree, that is why it often fails..............................

 

[Navy Pride]

I consider people who are so blindly loyal to our government that they've lost the ability to remember what American values are to be Un-American.

For example the people who are OK with spying on Americans without a warrant, who are OK with our torturing people, are OK with keeping people in prisons indefinitely without being charged with a crime, with extraordinary rendition where people are secreted in the middle of the night to hostile countries where they are tortured and often killed...

Let's not forget those who would deprive Americans of their right to free speech...those of you who want to prevent Americans from saying things that they disagree with....that's what's Un-American to me....

So what if an individual criticizes our government! I guess you've forgotten that criticizing the government is how America was founded! Anyone who believes "America, Love it or Leave it" is Un-American. Anyone who believes in "America Never Wrong" is Un-American....

Hey I am for criticizing the government to but unlike liberals like you I am not going to take it out on the brave men that are fighting and dying to give you the right to put them down.........

 

[tecoyah]

Hey I am for criticizing the government to but unlike liberals like you I am not going to take it out on the brave men that are fighting and dying to give you the right to put them down.........

Intersting....I did not see where he "Took it out" on our soldiers. Might want to check the needle on that Phonograph.

To me it is Un-American to ammend our Constitution in an attempt to limit civil rights. I am pretty sure all previous changes were intended to ADD freedoms to the population.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Lachean:
The expression gets thrown around way too much here on DP, I know I am guilty of using it from time to time. But the word seems almost meaningless, or subjective to the political platform of the person using it.

What are the American ideals that we all agree on? Sometimes we're so divided as a country, and both sides want to appear patriotic.

It seems to me that the only things I think we can all agree are un-American ideas are: communism, theocracy, and tyranny (oppression.)

Any thoughts?

Are you sure we agree on tyranny (oppression)? Because I'm sure if you ask these pro-war pundits, they do not think we are committing tyranny and oppression in Iraq.

In answer to your question, "What is un-American":

• Exactly what we are doing in Iraq and Afganistan.
• The Patriot Act
• NSA wiretapping
• Introducing terms such as "enemy combatants" to circumvent the Geneva Conventions.
• Electronic voting machines without verifiable paper trails.
• The War on Terror
• Our defense budget
• Phoney issues such as gay marriage, sealing the borders, religious agendas on government dockets, abortion debates, etc
• Deliberate suppression of the Marketplace of Ideas
• American Imperialism
• State sanctioned bigotry against muslims
• Intolerance towards other cultures
• Arrogant, narcissistic Americans
• Apathetic voters
• Corporatism
• The convoluted defination of "Freedom" (which to many Americans means, "a total lack of responsibilty for ones own actions")

That's the short list.

You can also throw in the actions of one political party to completely disregard the views of another political party as though it never existed. Like when Bush declared a "mandate" when only half the nation voted for him. I think neocons are disgusting, but I would never try to suppress their right to voice their opinions.

Trying to silence dissenters is probably the most un-American act of all. This country was founded on dissention. And for those who disagree...

who was Thomas Paine?

 

[26 X World Champs]

Hey I am for criticizing the government to but unlike liberals like you I am not going to take it out on the brave men that are fighting and dying to give you the right to put them down.........

Stop lying about me Navy! Show me one post I've ever written that "takes it out" on our military personnel? You can't so stop LYING about what I said.

How about you stick to writing about what YOU think and you stop wirting what you think other people say since you're almost always wrong? It sucks big time when you put words into other forum members mouth that are untrue and that you use to put that member down.

Shame on you!

 

[26 X World Champs]

Intersting....I did not see where he "Took it out" on our soldiers. Might want to check the needle on that Phonograph.

Thank you! It's standard operating procedure for Navy Pride to make up quotes from other forum members and like the many other quotes that he makes in his posts he never provides a link that substantiates his untruthful accusations.

I suppose he is so unconfident of his point of view that he must resort to making up lies about what other people say....how weak is that?

 

[26 X World Champs]

Hey I am for criticizing the government to but unlike liberals like you I am not going to take it out on the brave men that are fighting and dying to give you the right to put them down.........

Again.....BULLSHIT...but how come YOU are against Gays in the military? How come you're against Gays who served in the military having the same rights to marry that you have?

Not allowing personal freedoms and the pursuit of happiness is Un-American!

 

[Spartacus FPV]

Are you sure we agree on tyranny (oppression)? Because I'm sure if you ask these pro-war pundits, they do not think we are committing tyranny and oppression in Iraq.

When I say we I mean people like us Billo. Americans who understand that patriotism is about defending the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

The pro-war pundits would never openly admit to imperialism or opression, their rhetoric masks it poorly though.