What is the moral difference between Robert E Lee and German Generals like Herman Goring, Alfred Jodl and Wilhelm Keitel?

[CLAX1911]

The extention of slavery to the west was the primary cause of the Civil War.

I'm not buying that crap for a second.

That a plurality of Americans don't know this speaks to the need for the 1619 Projesct and CRT in schools.

Because Americans don't believe BS we need to teach them lies and conspiracy theories that idiot of themselves are self-refuting?

 

[j brown's body]

I'm not buying that crap for a second.

Because Americans don't believe BS we need to teach them lies and conspiracy theories that idiot of themselves are self-refuting?

"One section of our country believes slavery is right and ought to be extended, while the other believes it is wrong and ought not to be extended. This is the only substantial dispute."

Abraham Lincoln, March 4th, 1861.

Your argument is evidence for need to teach the truth.

It was neccesary to remove the cause of slavery and freedom of blacks from the Civil War in order to perpetuate 150 years of Jim Crow racial segregation. The two ideas were simply incompatible.

 

[Yes_Minister]

it was a number of reasons.

What were the states rights in question?

I don't think so is loading slaves was something rich people did. Could you see yourself going to war for someone else's Ferrari or yacht?

Then why does the Confederate Constitution have protections for slavery?

Constitution of the Confederate States - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

world war II was thought about anti-semitism. We didn't even know about the Holocaust until some Russian troops stumbled upon I believe it was Dachau that was it April 1945 the US entered the world war II in 1941 to say it was about something nobody knew about it until after 3 years of fighting is absurd.

It was a motivating factor for the Nazi regime.

It's just that we at this point look at that it's such a horrible thing and it was. But it wasn't what we went to war over.

It's a big reason why Nazi Germany went to war.

You don't go to war for things like that. You have to get people to take up God said risk their lives so it's got to be something that is in their heart.

The primary reason for the Civil war was over secession. Southern States decided to secede.

Why did they decide to secede?

There was a number of reasons for this some of them were related to slavery but not so much in the practice is so bad we need to kill 300,000 people on our side to end it nobody cared that much about that. Not at that time.

So what should happened instead to end slavery? Nothing?

 

[bomberfox]

WHAT'S THE TIME TODAY?



What a silly question! The answer is pathetically obvious.

First of all, R E Lee is from an entirely different generation. He died in 1870 and Germany decreed that it was a One Party State in 1933 (called "Nazi") - that's 66-years later (or two-thirds of a century)!

The date doesn't matter? Of course it does. History is a matter of dates because it changes so frequently over time. Nominally because that is the way humans evolve. Times come and go, and sometimes they come back. But, there are moments of history that remain longer. After all, the Roman Empire lasted close to a thousand years! (Didn't know that, did you?)

Yes, today, Uncle Sam is not anywhere near à thousand years old!

And, it seems, some people don't understand that manner of evolution of both Time&Mankind - that is, we are uncontrovertibly together year-after-year after year. Time changes and so do we-the-sheeple.

So, what's the "time" today!?! Now THAT is a difficult question ... !

The confederacy was pretty much a one party state that would have committed similar atrocities if they won the war. The confederates often starved their captives to death.

 

[bomberfox]

Consider that the confederacy was meant to be the first state created on the basis of white supremacy.

 

[j brown's body]

The confederacy was pretty much a one party state that would have committed similar atrocities if they won the war. The confederates often starved their captives to death.

I don't think it could not have survived on its own. Davis despaired of getting the states to act in a unified manner. They had dreams of conquering Mexico and Cuba. It seems very insane.

 

[j brown's body]

Consider that the confederacy was meant to be the first state created on the basis of white supremacy.

The second, really. They just said the quiet part out loud.

 

[multivita-man]

Lee was fighting a war for Southern independence. He wouldn't have been responsible for killing a single person had the Union allowed the South to secede. The Nazis, by comparison, were aggressors, directed by an ideology of violence. That's a difference. That doesn't necessarily mean that Lee was particularly morally superior relative to Nazis, however. Lee was obviously morally wrong for his part in the institutionalization of slavery.

 

[j brown's body]

The first assignment in my 11th grade US History class includes this article:

"Everything stemmed from the slavery issue," says Princeton professor James McPherson, whose book Battle Cry of Freedom is widely judged to be the authoritative one-volume history of the war. Another leading authority, David Blight of Yale, laments, "No matter what we do or the overwhelming consensus among historians, out in the public mind, there is still this need to deny that slavery was the cause of the war."

150 Years After Fort Sumter: Why We're Still Fighting the Civil War

North and South shared the burden of slavery, and after the war, they shared in forgetting about it. But 150 years later, it's time to tell the truth

content.time.com

 

[Rumpel]

German Generals like Herman Goring, Alfred Jodl and Wilhelm Keitel?​

And what about Erwin Rommel?
And what about Claus Graf Schenk von Staufenberg?
And what about Hindenburg?
Etc etc etc ....

 

[CLAX1911]

"One section of our country believes slavery is right and ought to be extended, while the other believes it is wrong and ought not to be extended. This is the only substantial dispute."

Abraham Lincoln, March 4th, 1861.

Your argument is evidence for need to teach the truth.

It was neccesary to remove the cause of slavery and freedom of blacks from the Civil War in order to perpetuate 150 years of Jim Crow racial segregation. The two ideas were simply incompatible.

You said we needed to believe in a wackadoodle conspiracy theory.

You and everything you say is that with the category of Alex Jones. Do you believe it's screwy untrue crap. You might as well be telling me the Earth is flat.

 

[Rumpel]

What is the moral difference between Robert E Lee and German Generals like Alfred Jodl and Wilhelm Keitel?

Is that a real question - or do you know the answer already?

 

[j brown's body]

Lee was fighting a war for Southern independence. He wouldn't have been responsible for killing a single person had the Union allowed the South to secede. The Nazis, by comparison, were aggressors, directed by an ideology of violence. That's a difference. That doesn't necessarily mean that Lee was particularly morally superior relative to Nazis, however. Lee was obviously morally wrong for his part in the institutionalization of slavery.

He was a Union soldier first.

 

[j brown's body]

You said we needed to believe in a wackadoodle conspiracy theory.

You and everything you say is that with the category of Alex Jones. Do you believe it's screwy untrue crap. You might as well be telling me the Earth is flat.

Why not simply comment on the post you are responding to instead of sliding into incoherence?

 

[Rumpel]

A better comparisan would be Robert E. Lee with Erwin Rommel. Both great generals, both in military strategy and tactics fighting on the losing side. Both are studied at the United States Army Command and General Staff College at Ft. Leavenworth, KS. The one's you mentioned aren't.

Even so, I have to wonder why someone would still insist on fighting a war that's been over for 157 years.

Nonetheless, if you want comparisons, Lee and Rommel are the ones.

Rommel was famous as the desert fox.

 

[CLAX1911]

Why not simply comment on the post you are responding to instead of sliding into incoherence?

Kooky conspiracy crap is not worth commenting on other than to mock.

 

[multivita-man]

He was a Union soldier first.

He was but then he resigned to lead the secessionist movement. The United States viewed him as a traitor; many of his Southern compatriots regarded him as a freedom fighter. He wasn't trying to impose slavery on all the United States, he just wanted it protected where it had been practiced since the Constitution was ratified.

But I'm not an apologist for Southern slavery. The Union was right to take up the cause against it, but it didn't do that formally until 1863, some two years into the conflict.

 

[CLAX1911]

What were the states rights in question?

Counting slaves as 3/5 of a person. The north wanted to be counted is zero.

Then why does the Confederate Constitution have protections for slavery?

because they wanted that to be right in their country.

It was a motivating factor for the Nazi regime.


It's a big reason why Nazi Germany went to war.

Explain.

Why did they decide to secede?

economic issues Lincoln's election states rights tariffs and slavery.

So what should happened instead to end slavery? Nothing?

Industrial revolution that's what I did it anyway. It continued on after the Civil war they just called it something else.

 

[j brown's body]

He was but then he resigned to lead the secessionist movement. The United States viewed him as a traitor; many of his Southern compatriots regarded him as a freedom fighter. He wasn't trying to impose slavery on all the United States, he just wanted it protected where it had been practiced since the Constitution was ratified.

But I'm not an apologist for Southern slavery. The Union was right to take up the cause against it, but it didn't do that formally until 1863, some two years into the conflict.

Isn't someone who takes up arms against the country that trained him in their use a traitor?

No other general from VA did this. Only Lee. The only slave owner.

 

[j brown's body]

Counting slaves as 3/5 of a person. The north wanted to be counted is zero.

because they wanted that to be right in their country.
Explain.

economic issues Lincoln's election states rights tariffs and slavery.


Industrial revolution that's what I did it anyway. It continued on after the Civil war they just called it something else.

I love this.

Is this an argument that the slave states saw their slaves more as people than those who opposed slavery?

What incredible ignorance!

 

[j brown's body]

Kooky conspiracy crap is not worth commenting on other than to mock.

I have no idea what you're purposefully vague argument is talking about.

Why not just admit you are wrong and that primary source evidence proves the war was over slavery?

 

[multivita-man]

Isn't someone who takes up arms against the country that trained him in their use a traitor?

Sure, from the perspective of the country that's prosecuting him. If someone were to lead a separatist movement in Chechnya, Putin and his generals would label him a traitor. Many Chechens, on the other hand, would label him a Chechen patriot. I'm speaking only to the issue of treason per se, and not the proposed justifications for it, which were immoral in the case of Lee.

 

[CLAX1911]

I have no idea what you're purposefully vague argument is talking about.

all you need to know is it the very last word of that post.

Why not just admit you are wrong and that primary source evidence proves the war was over slavery?

The war wasn't over slavery.

 

[j brown's body]

Yeah, Lee was a really great guy.

"Lee’s army captured and enslaved free blacks in Pennsylvania and Maryland"​

A Confederate Hero Steeped in Secrets: 9 Surprising Things You Didn’t Know About Robert E. Lee – Page 9 – History Collection

Robert E. Lee has filled the news headlines lately. Lee is a controversial figure due to his service to the pro-slavery Confederacy, viewed as treason by many,

historycollection.com

 

[CLAX1911]

I love this.

Is this an argument that the slave states saw their slaves more as people than those who opposed slavery?

No. It's that space states wasted slaves COUNTED as people on the census so they could get more representation

What incredible ignorance!

you can't help it your product of public schools.