What is the essence of Conservatism?

[KevinKohler]

Weird then that conservative states are the most dependant on goverment handouts and take more than they contribute in taxes.

And the more liberal states contribute more in taxes than they take.

That is because self reliance is a micro economic solution, not a macro economic solution.

 

[NWRatCon]

Conservatives tend to CLAIM that self responsibility is their core tenant, but I disagree.

Self RELIANCE is.

See? Unclear on the concept. "Self reliance" is a libertarian value, not a conservative one. There's a difference. Responsibility is a conservative value: to oneself AND to the community. That community can include family, neighbors, the law, one's faith, the nation, the international community. Libertarians tend not to get that.

 

[ataraxia]

...and we can ALL be thankful of that fact.

Why is clinging fearfully and blindly to the past something to be thankful for? The world changes fast. If you don’t keep up, you fall behind. Not a good thing.

 

[NolanVoyd]

That is because self reliance is a micro economic solution, not a macro economic solution.

The people in those conservative states (on average) tend to be less self reliant then the people in liberals states then, because they are more reliant on government handouts.

 

[Noodlegawd]

An slip by Chuck Todd opened the door for Sen. Ben Sasse to provide likely the best explanation in ordinary terms of what conservatism is all about. Chuck Todd was wrong, btw, there aren't several version of it, there's really only one.

It's too bad that most of the self-professed conservatives in our governments are not actually acting in accordance with that definition.

 

[calamity]

The essence of Conservatism is deplorable.



Well said.

 

[Rich2018]

Conservatives tend to CLAIM that self responsibility is their core tenant, but I disagree.

Self RELIANCE is.

Meaning, those with $$$.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

An slip by Chuck Todd opened the door for Sen. Ben Sasse to provide likely the best explanation in ordinary terms of what conservatism is all about. Chuck Todd was wrong, btw, there aren't several version of it, there's really only one.

It's Trumpism. An ideology is what it is in practice. For example, Marxism can be made to sound good, but in practice it never is. Ben Sasse can make all kinds of claims about what conservatism is in America, but it's irrelevant, because in practice it is Trumpism and every one of these ****ers claiming its something else always bend the knee when it counts.

 

[Logician Man]

An slip by Chuck Todd opened the door for Sen. Ben Sasse to provide likely the best explanation in ordinary terms of what conservatism is all about. Chuck Todd was wrong, btw, there aren't several version of it, there's really only one.

It ain't endorsing a serial adulterer who thinks it's acceptable to grab women's private parts at will because one considers himself to be a celebrity, or lying to Americans about a deadly pandemic for personal political gain over love of country and fellow Americans, or inciting an insurrection upon our former VP and other duly elected officials who are performing their Constitutional duty to ratify a fair and secure POTUS election.

 

[KevinKohler]

The people in those conservative states (on average) tend to be less self reliant then the people in liberals states then, because they are more reliant on government handouts.

Not necessarily. You see, the things they espouse, like frugality, while effective for individuals to "make end's meat" are actually quite harmful to the overall economy when applied on a grander scale. It's why conservative ideals, economically...while romantic...are ultimately ineffective at driving true economic success for the most who are involved in that economy.

So, while they may believe themselves self reliant, and perhaps too proud to accept help...they are, on average, scraping out a more meager existence.

 

[Grand Mal]

This is what I see is the essence of conservatism.
Conservatives take a snapshot of a moment in history that they consider the perfect moment and they try to recreate that moment through legislation, thinking that if they can just get the laws right they can live in that moment forever. Usually that moment happened when their fathers were boys.

Liberal- "We can make this better."
Conservative- "I liked it the way it was before."

 

[goldkam]

True, and he had no experience working as an elected official. All his life he was the boss. He doesn't understand the concept of working with people. His understanding is him telling people what to do and them doing it.

Trump offers nothing, except racist/nationalist speeches to adoring crowds who he wouldn't give the time of day to.

I could not agree more.

 

[TurtleDude]

See? Unclear on the concept. "Self reliance" is a libertarian value, not a conservative one. There's a difference. Responsibility is a conservative value: to oneself AND to the community. That community can include family, neighbors, the law, one's faith, the nation, the international community. Libertarians tend not to get that.

its funny watching big government fan boys telling us libertarians what we get or don't get. what we get is that BGFBs rarely have a clue

 

[TurtleDude]

This is what I see is the essence of conservatism.
Conservatives take a snapshot of a moment in history that they consider the perfect moment and they try to recreate that moment through legislation, thinking that if they can just get the laws right they can live in that moment forever. Usually that moment happened when their fathers were boys.

Liberal- "We can make this better."
Conservative- "I liked it the way it was before."

liberals-we have to do something even if it makes things worse.
conservatives-lets not do anything unless the evidence exists that it will improve things

 

[Grand Mal]

liberals-we have to do something even if it makes things worse.
conservatives-lets not do anything unless the evidence exists that it will improve things

Like gay marriage and drug law reform and assisted suicide rights? You know, basic liberties that liberals had to wrestle with conservatives to win. Abortion rights. School integration.
When conservatives have power the laws start to pile up and when liberals get power they spend half their time shit-canning bad laws.

 

[TurtleDude]

Like gay marriage and drug law reform and assisted suicide rights? You know, basic liberties that liberals had to wrestle with conservatives to win. Abortion rights. School integration.
When conservatives have power the laws start to pile up and when liberals get power they spend half their time shit-canning bad laws.

both sides are guilty there. Liberals hate gun rights, the right of assembly, the right to maintain and control your own wealth, and sadly, the right to free speech.

 

[Grand Mal]

both sides are guilty there. Liberals hate gun rights, the right of assembly, the right to maintain and control your own wealth, and sadly, the right to free speech.

Do I need to quote to you what 'liberal' means? Because you just told me the same thing that dumbass far-right simpletons say about liberalism. Dumbass far-right simpletons just gather everything they don't like about politics and society into a heap, pile on top everything they're afraid of, real or imaginary, and call the pile 'liberalism'.
Damn. This is what I say to them- anyone who doesn't hold liberal values isn't a liberal, doesn't matter what you, he or anyone else thinks. Liberal values? I communicate with people from all over the world and the only ones who are confused about what liberal values are are American conservatives. Each American conservative has his own definition according to what he hates and fears the most.

 

[bluesmoke]

No a quality is a characteristic, a policy that you might support is not.

Fail.

You're attempting to parse out what shares as if they can't be in the same place at the same time to any extent. I'm describing what is characteristic of their policy. What's your problem? However, I'm not going to argue with a guy ruminating and cogitating on the park bench in old downtown as he motions to the engineer in the train rolling by to blow his whistle.

 

[bluesmoke]

What you characterize as "tax giveaway to the rich and large corps" delivered a reduction of 20% in my Federal Income Tax liability.

The result was also an increase in the actual monies received by the Feds e very year in Taxes until the Covid Shut Downs.

I am neither a member of "the rich" or a "large corp(s)". We have gone over this before and yet you continue to tell this same lie.

Why?

Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary

Receipts, outlays, and surplus or deficit in dollars and as a percent of GDP from 1940 to 2029.

www.taxpolicycenter.org

Anecdotal is meaningless.

As usual, you've no significant evidence to back up anything you say. Show the evidence. The burden of proof is on you. But, you being cowardly, I expect you to not do so. I've proved it time again. Go away.

 

[Nilhus]

The essence of conservatism is this: Everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state and its strict and numerous laws - otherwise criminals thrive, the society falls into disarray and God will be upset - all for the good of individual liberty.

Short version: conservatism is: totalitarianism driven by paranoia and religious beliefs, while falsely pretending to love individual liberty and limited government

Conservatives in general absolutely love the decades-long trend of crazy overcriminalization and incarceration will unconditionally supportas a solution to the slightest perceived(real or not) societal issue(as long as it's not some conservative value perceived by others as an issue). That's why they want as many laws as possible and will unconditionally support law enforcement, prosecutors and judges offering them from near absolute immunity(cops) to actual absolute immunity(prosecutors and judges) - regardless of how wrong they are and what atrocious acts they commit.

 

[calamity]

...
Short version: conservatism is: totalitarianism driven by paranoia and religious beliefs, while falsely pretending to love individual liberty and limited government

Conservatives in general absolutely love the decades-long trend of crazy overcriminalization and incarceration will unconditionally supportas a solution to the slightest perceived(real or not) societal issue(as long as it's not some conservative value perceived by others as an issue). That's why they want as many laws as possible and will unconditionally support law enforcement, prosecutors and judges offering them from near absolute immunity(cops) to actual absolute immunity(prosecutors and judges) - regardless of how wrong they are and what atrocious acts they commit.

Nailed it

 

[calamity]

Do I need to quote to you what 'liberal' means? Because you just told me the same thing that dumbass far-right simpletons say about liberalism.

Is that a surprise?

Dumbass far-right simpletons just gather everything they don't like about politics and society into a heap, pile on top everything they're afraid of, real or imaginary, and call the pile 'liberalism'.

Yes, the dumbing down of ideas lives strong in the minds of Far Right simpletons.

Damn. This is what I say to them- anyone who doesn't hold liberal values isn't a liberal, doesn't matter what you, he or anyone else thinks. Liberal values? I communicate with people from all over the world and the only ones who are confused about what liberal values are are American conservatives. Each American conservative has his own definition according to what he hates and fears the most.

American Conservatives drank their fill from the Stupid Fountain.

 

[Rich2018]

You're attempting to parse out what shares as if they can't be in the same place at the same time to any extent. I'm describing what is characteristic of their policy. What's your problem? However, I'm not going to argue with a guy ruminating and cogitating on the park bench in old downtown as he motions to the engineer in the train rolling by to blow his whistle.

Sorry your rambling post makes no sense.

I don't think that shared belief in a policy could be described as a characteristic because, IMO, no such policy exists, nor could exist (and not the the GOP actually has any policies)

I think the closest you could come, is saying that conservatives support the justification of unequal wealth.

 

[code1211]

Anecdotal is meaningless.

As usual, you've no significant evidence to back up anything you say. Show the evidence. The burden of proof is on you. But, you being cowardly, I expect you to not do so. I've proved it time again. Go away.

The tax code shows that the tax rates for all tax payers, me included, were reduced. That is WHY the taxes I paid reduced by 20%.

Actual collection of monies by the Feds increased.

Tax rates down resulting in greater take home pay for anyone who was receiving taxable income.

Business activity up resulting in greater tax revenue overall collected in real dollars.

These things happened in the real world which might explain why you missed them.

This article defines and explains the tax reductions of the 2017 Tax Reform in terms that even you might understand:

Trump Tax Brackets: Will Your Tax Rate Change Under New Plan?

Trump’s sweeping tax plan permanently extends the federal income tax brackets created during his first term and adds new tax cuts.

smartasset.com

This link shows that the Federally collected tax revenues were up even AFTER the reduced tax rates went into effect.

U.S. Federal Government Tax Revenue

The federal government generates tax revenue through sources like income and corporate taxes. Learn how much tax revenue the U.S. generates each year.

www.thebalance.com

Is this STILL beyond your grasp?

 

[bluesmoke]

The tax code shows that the tax rates for all tax payers, me included, were reduced. That is WHY the taxes I paid reduced by 20%.

Actual collection of monies by the Feds increased.

Tax rates down resulting in greater take home pay for anyone who was receiving taxable income.

Business activity up resulting in greater tax revenue overall collected in real dollars.

These things happened in the real world which might explain why you missed them.

This article defines and explains the tax reductions of the 2017 Tax Reform in terms that even you might understand:

Trump Tax Brackets: Will Your Tax Rate Change Under New Plan?

Trump’s sweeping tax plan permanently extends the federal income tax brackets created during his first term and adds new tax cuts.

smartasset.com

This link shows that the Federally collected tax revenues were up even AFTER the reduced tax rates went into effect.

U.S. Federal Government Tax Revenue

The federal government generates tax revenue through sources like income and corporate taxes. Learn how much tax revenue the U.S. generates each year.

www.thebalance.com

Is this STILL beyond your grasp?

It is rare that tax revenues ever decrease. The Trump/Rep tax giveaway was supposed to generate economic growth, but revenue as a % of GDP went down under Trump after having risen during Obama. Tax revenue should have gone up more. Instead, we're getting record deficits:

World Bank Open Data

Free and open access to global development data

data.worldbank.org

Under the Trump/Rep tax plan, "Middle-class Americans saw mixed results as most of the benefits accrued to the highest earners." and
"...corporate income tax collected by the IRS decreased by 22.4% from 2017 to 2018":

Who Benefited Most From the Trump Tax Cuts? – Policygenius

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act was the biggest tax reform since 1986, but data suggest that not all Americans benefited as much as the Trump administration promised.

www.policygenius.com

https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.whitehouse.gov%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2021%2F05%2Fhist01z1_fy22.xlsx&wdOrigin=BROWSELINK

What is beyond your grasp is that the fact that the rich and large corps got the pie and the rest got the crumbs left in the pan. I've given you the facts of who is getting the most and who is getting the least from the Trump tax plan. The facts are that the rich and large corps got the most and those with less got the least.