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What is the "Deep State" any way?

Moot said:
According to Wiki's sources, the Deep State is government bureaucracy and establishment politicians...

"...In the United States the term "deep state" is used within political science to describe influential decision making bodies within government that are relatively permanent and whose policies and long-term plans are unaffected by changing administrations. The term is often used in a critical sense vis-à-vis the general electorate to refer to the lack of influence popular democracy has on these institutions and the decisions they make.[1][2] The term was originally coined in a somewhat pejorative sense to refer to similar relatively invisible state apparatus in Turkey and post-Soviet Russia.[3] With respect to the United States, the concept has been discussed in numerous published works by Marc Ambinder, David W. Brown, Peter Dale Scott, Mike Lofgren, Kevin Shipp and Michael Wolff.

While definitions vary, the term gained popularity among various groups, primarily supporters of Donald Trump, Bernie Sanders, and conspiracy theorists, during the 2016 U.S. presidential election, in opposition to establishment Republican and Democratic candidates. Since Trump's inauguration, the term has been used by commentators who argue that a 'deep state', involving the FBI, CIA, NSA, former President Barack Obama, and/or Hillary Clinton, is aiming to delegitimize the Trump presidency and thwart its policy goals.[4][5]...."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state_in_the_United_States​


It goes on to say that Breitbart and Trump supporters have appropriated the term to support their conspiracy theory narratives....


"...The term has been appropriated by Breitbart News and other conservative and right-wing news outlets, where supporters of the Trump Administration have used it to support a variety of conspiracy theories.[11] It has been dismissed by authors for The New York Times[4] and The Observer.[12] University of Miami Professor Joseph Uscinski says, "The concept has always been very popular among conspiracy theorists, whether they call it a deep state or something else."[13]..."​
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So in today's usage, it means any part of the government not loyal to Trump and Trumpism alone. And any non-loyal media, or citizen, or...
 
Atomic Kid said:
Explain this for me then. If McCabe, Comey, Strzok or Page were engaged in this 'deep state' conspiracy against Trump. Why then after Comey's announcement that he was reopening the Clinton email investigation just 11 days before the election began receiving wall to wall coverage. Possibly tilting the election in Trump's favor. While also not disclosing the fact that the FBI had begun an investigation into the Trump Campaign. Why didn't they, or anyone else in the FBI for that matter, tip off the Times or the Post of the existence of the of that investigation to even the score when they easily could have done so? But neither they or anyone else did. Because that is how it really works
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Comey was forced to send Congress that letter. He had no choice.

But the timing...as you say, "just 11 days before..." was the fault of Lynch and McCabe (and maybe even Comey), who had been trying to suppress knowledge about the laptop and the email on it.

The NYPD, who had the laptop and who found the emails and who told the FBI about them a month prior, told that bunch to deal with it or they were going to the media themselves.
 
Mycroft said:
Comey was forced to send Congress that letter. He had no choice.

But the timing...as you say, "just 11 days before..." was the fault of Lynch and McCabe (and maybe even Comey), who had been trying to suppress knowledge about the laptop and the email on it.

The NYPD, who had the laptop and who found the emails and who told the FBI about them a month prior, told that bunch to deal with it or they were going to the media themselves.
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Comey had a choice
he could have sided with what has been presented as the majority view among the FBI hierarchy, that the followup investigation with notification to congress could have been delayed until after the election
he could have notified the attorney general to advise the additional investigation was going to be conducted immediately after the election had concluded. i doubt the democratically appointed attorney general would have objected to such a delay
while i agree with Comey's decision to so notify the congress and complete the investigation without delay, there should be no doubt that Comey had the option not to do so
 
justabubba said:
Comey had a choice
he could have sided with what has been presented as the majority view among the FBI hierarchy, that the followup investigation with notification to congress could have been delayed until after the election
he could have notified the attorney general to advise the additional investigation was going to be conducted immediately after the election had concluded. i doubt the democratically appointed attorney general would have objected to such a delay
while i agree with Comey's decision to so notify the congress and complete the investigation without delay, there should be no doubt that Comey had the option not to do so
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You whited it out, so maybe you didn't see the part about the NYPD giving their ultimatum.
 
Mycroft said:
You whited it out, so maybe you didn't see the part about the NYPD giving their ultimatum.
Click to expand...

you failed to explain to us how that prevented Comey from having the option not to resume the investigation when he did
 
justabubba said:
you failed to explain to us how that prevented Comey from having the option not to resume the investigation when he did
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I'll let Comey explain it...as he explained it to Colbert:

James Comey: So the team told me on October 27th, there are hundreds of thousands of emails on Anthony Weiner’s laptop, and there are thousands of emails from the missing Blackberry.net domain. This could change the outcome of the investigation. And so at that point what do you do? ake no action if you can avoid it. And I kept looking for a door that said ‘no action here’ and I couldn’t find it. I could only see two doors and they’re both actions. One says speak the other says conceal. Speaking would be really bad… Hundreds of thousands of emails on Anthony Weiner’s computer. And the FBI team said, “No way boss can we review this before the election.” So what do you do? Speaking would be really bad. Concealing would be catastrophic… It makes me sick to my stomach that we might have had an impact.

Bad...is bad. Catastrophic...is not an option.

btw, with this statement to Colbert, Comey has exposed himself as a liar. Here is what he told Congress in a letter:

Dear Messrs. Chairmen:

I write to supplement my October 28, 2016 letter that notified you the FBI would be taking additional investigative steps with respect to former Secretary of State Clinton’s use of a personal email server. Since my letter, the FBI investigative team has been working around the clock to process and review a large volume of emails from a device obtained in connection with an unrelated criminal investigation. During that process, we reviewed all of the communications that were to or from Hillary Clinton while she was Secretary of State.

Based on our review, we have not changed our conclusions that we expressed in July with respect to Secretary Clinton.

I am very grateful to the professionals at the FBI for doing an extraordinary amount of high-quality work in a short period of time.

Sincerely yours,
James B. Comey
Director

So...which is it? There were too many emails to review them all. Or... We reviewed them all.

You know...Comey should probably just stop talking, don't you think?
 
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Mycroft said:
I'll let Comey explain it...as he explained it to Colbert:

James Comey: So the team told me on October 27th, there are hundreds of thousands of emails on Anthony Weiner’s laptop, and there are thousands of emails from the missing Blackberry.net domain. This could change the outcome of the investigation. And so at that point what do you do? ake no action if you can avoid it. And I kept looking for a door that said ‘no action here’ and I couldn’t find it. I could only see two doors and they’re both actions. One says speak the other says conceal. Speaking would be really bad… Hundreds of thousands of emails on Anthony Weiner’s computer. And the FBI team said, “No way boss can we review this before the election.” So what do you do? Speaking would be really bad. Concealing would be catastrophic… It makes me sick to my stomach that we might have had an impact.

btw, with this statement to Colbert, Comey has exposed himself as a liar. Here is what he told Congress in a letter:

Dear Messrs. Chairmen:

I write to supplement my October 28, 2016 letter that notified you the FBI would be taking additional investigative steps with respect to former Secretary of State Clinton’s use of a personal email server. Since my letter, the FBI investigative team has been working around the clock to process and review a large volume of emails from a device obtained in connection with an unrelated criminal investigation. During that process, we reviewed all of the communications that were to or from Hillary Clinton while she was Secretary of State.

Based on our review, we have not changed our conclusions that we expressed in July with respect to Secretary Clinton.

I am very grateful to the professionals at the FBI for doing an extraordinary amount of high-quality work in a short period of time.

Sincerely yours,
James B. Comey
Director

So...which is it? There were too many emails to review them all. Or... We reviewed them all.

You know...Comey should probably just stop talking, don't you think?
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from the content of your post it would seem obvious that Comey did have another option. only one he chose not to take. you have offered nothing which would indicate otherwise
 
justabubba said:
from the content of your post it would seem obvious that Comey did have another option. only one he chose not to take. you have offered nothing which would indicate otherwise
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sigh...

I don't know how many different ways I can make this clear, but I'll try once more.

1. Lynch and friends concealed for a month.

2. The NYPD got tired of that and told them to deal with it or they will take it to the media.

3. Then it lands in Comey's lap.

4. He cannot conceal because the NYPD won't let that happen and that would be catastrophic.

5. His only option was to send the letter...his bad option...and take the heat.

That's what he did.

So...if you still don't understand, then I cannot help you. Find someone else to explain it to you.
 
Mycroft said:
They work for the President.

Tell me, if you don't like your boss, would you work behind the scenes to disrupt his company policies and actions? Would it bother you if he fired you for doing that?
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They do not work for the president they are supposed to work for the people. But I guess because we have Trump there's no separation everyone works for Trump.
Just ****ing crazy if you ask me....but no one asked me.
 
Middle_Ground said:
They do not work for the president they are supposed to work for the people. But I guess because we have Trump there's no separation everyone works for Trump.
Just ****ing crazy if you ask me....but no one asked me.
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You're right. No one asked you.
 
Puigb said:
Not too long ago I created a thread asking if Hannity considered former president George W. Bush part of the "Deep State". I asked this because Hannity used to defend Bush all the time similar to the way he now defends Trump (though I think he actually worships Trump, but that's a topic for another thread). So, what is the "Deep State" any way, and who is part of it? I know right wing pundits include pretty much ANY Democrat as part of the "Deep State", and apparently Republicans like Mueller and Comey, and also the entire FBI are part of the "Deep State". But what about McConnell? Ryan? Cruz? Rubio? Even Mike Pence? Are they part of the "Deep State"? Maybe Sessions is? Is the "Deep State" basically ANYONE who dares to oppose the almighty Donald Trump? Inquiring minds want to know.
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Actually the 'deep state' isn't people at all.

Have you people never heard of Roswell, New Mexico!

Pretty pathetic conspiracy theorists
 
Mycroft said:
sigh...

I don't know how many different ways I can make this clear, but I'll try once more.

1. Lynch and friends concealed for a month.

2. The NYPD got tired of that and told them to deal with it or they will take it to the media.

3. Then it lands in Comey's lap.

4. He cannot conceal because the NYPD won't let that happen and that would be catastrophic.

5. His only option was to send the letter...his bad option...and take the heat.

That's what he did.

So...if you still don't understand, then I cannot help you. Find someone else to explain it to you.
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you post the reality that Comey actually had options
and then you simultaneously insist he did not
the one of us who is confused and in need of some help to understand the situation is not me
 
justabubba said:
you post the reality that Comey actually had options
and then you simultaneously insist he did not
the one of us who is confused and in need of some help to understand the situation is not me
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catastrophe is not an option.
 
justabubba said:
delaying the investigation was
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No...it wasn't.

If he continued the Lynch action of hiding everything, the NYPD was going to blow it wide open by taking it to the media...causing the catastrophe. Nobody could allow that to happen...especially Lynch. So continuing the delay was NOT an option. His only option was to come clean and take the hit.

But, it's interesting, isn't it, that nobody really knew about Lynch's part in the whole thing until the IG report about McCabe came out. She pretty much ran under the radar for a year and a half. But now she is exposed.
 
Mycroft said:
No...it wasn't.

If he continued the Lynch action of hiding everything, the NYPD was going to blow it wide open by taking it to the media...causing the catastrophe. So continuing the delay was NOT an option. His only option was to come clean and take the hit.

But, it's interesting, isn't it, that nobody really knew about Lynch's part in the whole thing until the IG report about McCabe came out. She pretty much ran under the radar for a year and a half. But now she is exposed.
Click to expand...

holding his water on the continued investigation was absolutely a Comey option
only one he chose not to exercise
 
Mycroft said:
No...it wasn't.

If he continued the Lynch action of hiding everything, the NYPD was going to blow it wide open by taking it to the media...causing the catastrophe. Nobody could allow that to happen...especially Lynch. So continuing the delay was NOT an option. His only option was to come clean and take the hit.

But, it's interesting, isn't it, that nobody really knew about Lynch's part in the whole thing until the IG report about McCabe came out. She pretty much ran under the radar for a year and a half. But now she is exposed.
Click to expand...

Deep State? Many people are saying this is Deep BS, Deep BS....We'll see.

Erik Prince: NYPD Ready to Make Arrests in Anthony Weiner Case
TrumpHillaryEmailDisInfo.jpg
 
Mycroft said:
Comey was forced to send Congress that letter. He had no choice.

But the timing...as you say, "just 11 days before..." was the fault of Lynch and McCabe (and maybe even Comey), who had been trying to suppress knowledge about the laptop and the email on it.

The NYPD, who had the laptop and who found the emails and who told the FBI about them a month prior, told that bunch to deal with it or they were going to the media themselves.
Click to expand...


LOL! In what universe do you live in that makes you think that the NYPD can threaten or blackmail the FBI, much less the it's Director, over a case which it has jurisdiction involving classified material belonging to the US government? I doubt that there would be any faster way for someone to bring their law enforcement career to a sudden end then do something like that. I think that must be some kind of Daily Caller or Breitbart fantasy world.
 
Mycroft said:
I'll let Comey explain it...as he explained it to Colbert:

James Comey: So the team told me on October 27th, there are hundreds of thousands of emails on Anthony Weiner’s laptop, and there are thousands of emails from the missing Blackberry.net domain. This could change the outcome of the investigation. And so at that point what do you do? ake no action if you can avoid it. And I kept looking for a door that said ‘no action here’ and I couldn’t find it. ....

..Bad...is bad. Catastrophic...is not an option.

btw, with this statement to Colbert, Comey has exposed himself as a liar. Here is what he told Congress in a letter:

....

Based on our review, we have not changed our conclusions that we expressed in July with respect to Secretary Clinton.

I am very grateful to the professionals at the FBI for doing an extraordinary amount of high-quality work in a short period of time.

Sincerely yours,
James B. Comey
Director

So...which is it? There were too many emails to review them all. Or... We reviewed them all.

You know...Comey should probably just stop talking, don't you think?
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When you bring a shovelful of BS to a debate, many people are unaware it does not turn into gold......doesn't turn into gold, believe me!

https://www.thedailybeast.com/meet-donald-trumps-top-fbi-fanboy
‘Integrity Questioned’
Meet Donald Trump’s Top FBI Fanboy
Trump supporters with strong ties to the agency kept talking about surprises and leaks to come—..
Wayne Barrett
11.03.16 1:03 AM ET

Two days before FBI director James Comey rocked the world last week, Rudy Giuliani was on Fox, ..he said: “We’ve got a couple of things up our sleeve that should turn this thing around.”
.....
Hours after Comey’s letter about the renewed probe was leaked on Friday, Giuliani went on a radio show and attributed the director’s surprise action to “the pressure of a group of FBI agents who don’t look at it politically.”
“The other rumor that I get is that there’s a kind of revolution going on inside the FBI about the original conclusion [not to charge Clinton] being completely unjustified and almost a slap in the face to the FBI’s integrity,” said Giuliani. “I know that from former agents. I know that even from a few active agents.”

Along with Giuliani’s other connections to New York FBI agents, his former law firm, then called Bracewell Giuliani, has long been general counsel to the FBI Agents Association (FBIAA), which represents 13,000 former and current agents. The group, born in the New York FBI office in the early ’80s, was headed until Monday by Rey Tariche, an agent who just retired from the New York FBI office. In Tariche’s letter,.." he wrote that “we find our work—our integrity questioned” because of it, adding “we will not be used for political gains.”

When the FBIAA threw its first G-Man Honors Gala in 2014 in Washington, Giuliani was the keynote speaker and was given a distinguished service award named after him. Giuliani left Bracewell this January and joined Greenberg Traurig, the only other law firm listed as a sponsor of the FBIAA gala. ..
..
“I know some of the agents,” said Kallstrom. “I know some of the supervisors and I know the senior staff. And they’re P.O.’d, I mean no question. ..”
Kallstrom declared that “if it’s pushed under the rug,” the agents “won’t take that sitting down.” Kelly confirmed: “That’s going to get leaked.”
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https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3711187-FBI-to-CEG-Comey-Testimony-Supplement.html
ComeyCorrectedByFbi050917.jpg

ComeyCorrectedByFbi050817.jpg


https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/08/us/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-fbi-emails.html
How the F.B.I. Reviewed Thousands of Emails in One Week
By ADAM GOLDMAN and MATT APUZZO NOV. 7, 2016
WASHINGTON — Out of hundreds of thousands of emails seized last month from disgraced former Representative Anthony D. Weiner, a substantial number turned out to be copies of documents already reviewed by F.B.I. agents and analysts, allowing the agency to wrap up in days a review that some had feared would take weeks, if not longer.
The F.B.I. discovered approximately 650,000 emails on a computer that agents had seized while investigating Mr. Weiner on allegations of sexual improprieties. Some of those emails belonged to Huma Abedin, ..
As it turned out, law enforcement officials said, there was no need to review all of the emails, only Ms. Abedin’s....
..“You can’t review 650,000 emails in eight days,” Donald J. Trump said at a rally on Sunday.
Maybe not, but they didn’t have to. Here’s how federal agents, in the span of a week, could pore over a huge cache of emails and once again conclude that neither Mrs. Clinton nor her aides should face charges related to her handling of classified information on a personal server. The investigation, again, is closed.....
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Atomic Kid said:
LOL! In what universe do you live in that makes you think that the NYPD can threaten or blackmail the FBI, much less the it's Director, over a case which it has jurisdiction involving classified material belonging to the US government? I doubt that there would be any faster way for someone to bring their law enforcement career to a sudden end then do something like that. I think that must be some kind of Daily Caller or Breitbart fantasy world.
Click to expand...

When the Obama administration is involved in political corruption, they can easily be threatened by anyone who has the evidence. In this case, it's they were being threatened by the exposure of the contents of a laptop computer.
 
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