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What is the best approach for dealing with Trump?

What is the best approach for dealing with Trump?

  • Total voters
    23
Moderate Right said:
Oh Please. You guys have been obsessed with Trump ever since Nov 2016. It is the only thing you have left in life.
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Posting about the President of the United States on a board whose name is "Debate Politics" is obsession?

Maybe you don't know that politics involves the President. Strange. Everyone else seems to.
 
My preferred option isn't on here. I say let him finish this term, run for re-election, lose, and then deal with the crimes he committed if in fact it can be proven that he committed crimes.

The reality is the man is now screwed politically. I don't care that the GOP controls the Senate. Even the Senators - especially all of those coming up for re-election in 2020 - don't all blindly support Trump. And his personal life and image, to the decent people of the world, is trashed now.
 
tres borrachos said:
My preferred option isn't on here. I say let him finish this term, run for re-election, lose, and then deal with the crimes he committed if in fact it can be proven that he committed crimes.

The reality is the man is now screwed politically. I don't care that the GOP controls the Senate. Even the Senators - especially all of those coming up for re-election in 2020 - don't all blindly support Trump. And his personal life and image, to the decent people of the world, is trashed now.
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His reputation was trashed before the election. It's just a lot more trashed now. I don't believe impeachment, indictment or resignation should hinge on the approval of people who voted for Trump as a protest and as an expression of hatred for Clinton. When you see the mainstream arguments switching to combinations of "I don't care if he broke laws" (expressed by Senators) and "these particular laws are no big deal," you can start to get a feel for how foolhardy it is to wait for 89% of the Republican Party to come around, especially seeing as that support is literally the same now as it was on his inauguration.
 
Cardinal said:
His reputation was trashed before the election. It's just a lot more trashed now. I don't believe impeachment, indictment or resignation should hinge on the approval of people who voted for Trump as a protest and as an expression of hatred for Clinton. When you see the mainstream arguments switching to combinations of "I don't care if he broke laws" (expressed by Senators) and "these particular laws are no big deal," you can start to get a feel for how foolhardy it is to wait for 89% of the Republican Party to come around, especially seeing as that support is literally the same now as it was on his inauguration.
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his reputation is good. hillary (the woman you gave everything to campaign for) tried to trash it, but she ended up trashin herself and all her supporters when she got owned in the election lol (laugh out loud)

better luck in 2024 to you alt lefties
 
Cardinal said:
Then start a thread you feel would be better.
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Your poll is asking for the "best approach". I provided the proper answer to that, and that is winning the next election, like a real country.
 
JMR said:
please do state which Policy of Trump's, I assume important to Republicans, could not be carried out by a president who was not a felon, and liar, and psychopath?
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We haven't gotten into any near wars, which is a big deal to me. I'm not sure how many Republicans would've been able to resist the pressure to go into Syria, full force. I know my primary candidate (Rand Paul), probably would've stayed out of that mess as well but he didn't win.

That's what you're not understanding, Trump won, so that is what we have to work with.
 
Fishking said:
Your poll is asking for the "best approach". I provided the proper answer to that, and that is winning the next election, like a real country.
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Gosh, if only you were able to start a poll of your own you could start one that included the option you want. Sadly, your vote in the final result will go untallied.

But sadly, as you are unable to start a poll there's just nothing you can do. It is a cold and cruel world.
 
Cardinal said:
Gosh, if only you were able to start a poll of your own you could start one that included the option you want. Sadly, your vote in the final result will go untallied.

But sadly, as you are unable to start a poll there's just nothing you can do. It is a cold and cruel world.
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It goes tallied where it matters, in discourse. Your poll is trash and I fixed it via commentary. I feel no sadness, but I do feel a sense of satisfaction in watching you impotently stomp your feet in trying to censor the answer that is most appropriate.
 
Cardinal said:
Republican Senators are increasingly going on record making it clear that crimes are not enough to convince them that Trump is unfit for office, thereby disqualifying themselves, and the broader Conservative public at large, from serious discussion regarding Trump's crimes and his defrauding of the American people. But more practically, it means that conviction through impeachment is not possible.

Nonetheless, what do you feel is the best approach for dealing with Trump?

1. Impeachment. Sure, this won't result in conviction, but I feel Democrats' decision to impeach would make an important statement regarding the rule of law and the sanctity of our elections. Not impeaching would, in my opinion, cede the discussion altogether to Republicans' ambiguous, ever-shifting and disingenuous standards for what would be prosecutable or impeachable offenses.

2. Trump resigns in return for no impeachment and no indictment. This can be a demoralizing option since justice won't be served, but you have to consider your priorities. Is it more important that Trump leave office as soon as possible, thus sparing the country additional trauma? Or is it more important to see him finish out his term and maybe receive justice at the end of it? There is no obvious answer to this since by this point the need to see him gone is about as great as the need to see justice served.

3. Indictment. It is Neal Katyal's legal opinion that the statute of limitations would be "tolled." What this means is that the SoL would be extended so that Trump can be indicted once he's out of office. There is additional discussion leading Renato Mariotti and Katyal to agree that indictment while he's in office would be possible; he just couldn't be tried in court until he leaves office. Assuming indictment while he's still in office was possible and was used, remember that this is likely to be challenged in court for many months before it was resolved. If you choose this option, be sure to remember that a successful indictment is purely theoretical, has never been tested, and even if successful he would not be tried until he leaves office.

You can listen to the discussion between Katyal and Mariotti (December 8) here: https://ontopicpodcast.simplecast.fm/

While deciding on which option best suits you, be sure to remember that it is almost certainly Pence's fate to pardon Trump regardless of anything that happens.

You: "But none of these options are all that great! None of them offer a guaranteed or universally positive outcome!"
Me: "Trump was elected President; a universally positive outcome doesn't exist."
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You left out 'vote him out!", which is my personal favorite.

Bro, I know that many of my fellow leftists nut at the mere fantasy of Trump being unceremoniously and prematurely evicted from office, but I feel that this is largely a vicerally emotional compulsion void of much forsight. Go down the list of people that would and could replace him, and you'll be met with people that are likely to not change a damned thing, and in fact, actively influenced the president. Come on, do you really think it would be some kind of grand victory for the left with Mike "Can't Be Alone Around Women Because Religion' Pence?

More importantly, inpeaching Trump would actually be a disaster, and we would feel the consequences of doing that come the next election cycle. You think Trump supporters are insane now? Just wait until he gets impeached! I'm actually biting my nails and hoping that we get to vote him out democratically, because the other opition is to cause a huge portion of the voting population to loose their collective minds. I don't think that I could exaggerate how badly an impeachment would go for the left in the grander scheme of things.
 
DH Kirkwood said:
You left out 'vote him out!", which is my personal favorite.

Bro, I know that many of my fellow leftists nut at the mere fantasy of Trump being unceremoniously and prematurely evicted from office, but I feel that this is largely a vicerally emotional compulsion void of much forsight. Go down the list of people that would and could replace him, and you'll be met with people that are likely to not change a damned thing, and in fact, actively influenced the president. Come on, do you really think it would be some kind of grand victory for the left with Mike "Can't Be Alone Around Women Because Religion' Pence?

More importantly, inpeaching Trump would actually be a disaster, and we would feel the consequences of doing that come the next election cycle. You think Trump supporters are insane now? Just wait until he gets impeached! I'm actually biting my nails and hoping that we get to vote him out democratically, because the other opition is to cause a huge portion of the voting population to loose their collective minds. I don't think that I could exaggerate how badly an impeachment would go for the left in the grander scheme of things.
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"Vote him out" is what happened to George H.W. Bush. I didn't like the elder Bush, but I feel it's doing him a particular disservice to say that the solution for removing an upopular President is the same for removing a criminal. A criminal and an unpopular President are not on the same tier. One demands a more immediate solution than the other.
 
Cardinal said:
"Vote him out" is what happened to George H.W. Bush. I didn't like the elder Bush, but I feel it's doing him a particular disservice to say that the solution for removing an upopular President is the same for removing a criminal. A criminal and an unpopular President are not on the same tier. One demands a more immediate solution than the other.
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H.W Bush pardoned people to avoid legal ramifications. Wanna try again?
 
Cardinal said:
The crimes that Trump's own lawyer admitted to. Giuliani just threw all his supporters under the bus.

I have no idea how your response is relevant to what I said.
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What crimes were that?
 
akyron said:
NDAs are not a crime. Anything else?
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Except that Giuliani is saying it is a crime. Are you contradicting Trump's own lawyer on this?
 
Cardinal said:
Republican Senators are increasingly going on record making it clear that crimes are not enough to convince them that Trump is unfit for office, thereby disqualifying themselves, and the broader Conservative public at large, from serious discussion regarding Trump's crimes and his defrauding of the American people. But more practically, it means that conviction through impeachment is not possible.

Nonetheless, what do you feel is the best approach for dealing with Trump?

1. Impeachment. Sure, this won't result in conviction, but I feel Democrats' decision to impeach would make an important statement regarding the rule of law and the sanctity of our elections. Not impeaching would, in my opinion, cede the discussion altogether to Republicans' ambiguous, ever-shifting and disingenuous standards for what would be prosecutable or impeachable offenses.

2. Trump resigns in return for no impeachment and no indictment. This can be a demoralizing option since justice won't be served, but you have to consider your priorities. Is it more important that Trump leave office as soon as possible, thus sparing the country additional trauma? Or is it more important to see him finish out his term and maybe receive justice at the end of it? There is no obvious answer to this since by this point the need to see him gone is about as great as the need to see justice served.

3. Indictment. It is Neal Katyal's legal opinion that the statute of limitations would be "tolled." What this means is that the SoL would be extended so that Trump can be indicted once he's out of office. There is additional discussion leading Renato Mariotti and Katyal to agree that indictment while he's in office would be possible; he just couldn't be tried in court until he leaves office. Assuming indictment while he's still in office was possible and was used, remember that this is likely to be challenged in court for many months before it was resolved. If you choose this option, be sure to remember that a successful indictment is purely theoretical, has never been tested, and even if successful he would not be tried until he leaves office.

You can listen to the discussion between Katyal and Mariotti (December 8) here: https://ontopicpodcast.simplecast.fm/

While deciding on which option best suits you, be sure to remember that it is almost certainly Pence's fate to pardon Trump regardless of anything that happens.

You: "But none of these options are all that great! None of them offer a guaranteed or universally positive outcome!"
Me: "Trump was elected President; a universally positive outcome doesn't exist."
Click to expand...

Just resign. No long, drawn-out impeachment hearings, no months-long criminal trial. Just go back to New York, hang out in your golden tower, watch Faux Noose while smearing your face with KFC grease!
 
Cardinal said:
Except that Giuliani is saying it is a crime. Are you contradicting Trump's own lawyer on this?
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I think we all get it now...a parking ticket is an impeachable offense. At least in New York it must be. Wait didn't the mayor of New York say they wouldn't enforce minor offenses now...like parking ticket and shoplifting. Damn Trump is now off the hook.:lamo
 
Cardinal said:
So you have nothing to say about Trump's own lawyer admitting that his client committed a crime?
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I do not. I prefer to do some research on that as I have only your word at the outset. Since many use mischaracterization as a go to tool I prefer to dig a little deeper on specific questions on my own and not take things at face value.

In a similar vein do you think Comeys recent admission of mischaracterizing the "training" interview and ambushing Flynn is something that should be investigated for not following fbi procedures and circumventing due process?
 
Just another Democrat junk poll.

Who is "disqualified" are all the Democratic members of Congress claiming they will vote for impeachment and removal even before ANY evidence of any crime has even been offered.
 
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