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What is the best approach for dealing with Trump?

What is the best approach for dealing with Trump?


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Cardinal

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Republican Senators are increasingly going on record making it clear that crimes are not enough to convince them that Trump is unfit for office, thereby disqualifying themselves, and the broader Conservative public at large, from serious discussion regarding Trump's crimes and his defrauding of the American people. But more practically, it means that conviction through impeachment is not possible.

Nonetheless, what do you feel is the best approach for dealing with Trump?

1. Impeachment. Sure, this won't result in conviction, but I feel Democrats' decision to impeach would make an important statement regarding the rule of law and the sanctity of our elections. Not impeaching would, in my opinion, cede the discussion altogether to Republicans' ambiguous, ever-shifting and disingenuous standards for what would be prosecutable or impeachable offenses.

2. Trump resigns in return for no impeachment and no indictment. This can be a demoralizing option since justice won't be served, but you have to consider your priorities. Is it more important that Trump leave office as soon as possible, thus sparing the country additional trauma? Or is it more important to see him finish out his term and maybe receive justice at the end of it? There is no obvious answer to this since by this point the need to see him gone is about as great as the need to see justice served.

3. Indictment. It is Neal Katyal's legal opinion that the statute of limitations would be "tolled." What this means is that the SoL would be extended so that Trump can be indicted once he's out of office. There is additional discussion leading Renato Mariotti and Katyal to agree that indictment while he's in office would be possible; he just couldn't be tried in court until he leaves office. Assuming indictment while he's still in office was possible and was used, remember that this is likely to be challenged in court for many months before it was resolved. If you choose this option, be sure to remember that a successful indictment is purely theoretical, has never been tested, and even if successful he would not be tried until he leaves office.

You can listen to the discussion between Katyal and Mariotti (December 8) here: https://ontopicpodcast.simplecast.fm/

While deciding on which option best suits you, be sure to remember that it is almost certainly Pence's fate to pardon Trump regardless of anything that happens.

You: "But none of these options are all that great! None of them offer a guaranteed or universally positive outcome!"
Me: "Trump was elected President; a universally positive outcome doesn't exist."
 
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Cardinal

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By the way, no, I did not "forget" to include "Trump serves out the remainder of his term." The poll options are intended to be proactive rather than passive solutions.
 
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Mycroft

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Republican Senators are increasingly going on record making it clear that crimes are not enough to convince them that Trump is unfit for office, thereby disqualifying themselves, and the broader Conservative public at large, from serious discussion regarding Trump's crimes and his defrauding of the American people. But more practically, it means that conviction through impeachment is not possible.

Nonetheless, what do you feel is the best approach for dealing with Trump?

1. Impeachment. Sure, this won't result in conviction, but I feel Democrats' decision to impeach would make an important statement regarding the rule of law and the sanctity of our elections. Not impeaching would, in my opinion, cede the discussion altogether to Republicans' ambiguous, ever-shifting and disingenuous standards for what would be prosecutable or impeachable offenses.

2. Trump resigns in return for no impeachment and no indictment. This can be a demoralizing option since justice won't be served, but you have to consider your priorities. Is it more important that Trump leave office as soon as possible, thus sparing the country additional trauma? Or is it more important to see him finish out his term and maybe receive justice at the end of it? There is no obvious answer to this since by this point the need to see him gone is about as great as the need to see justice served.

3. Indictment. It is Neal Katyal's legal opinion that the statute of limitations would be "tolled." What this means is that the SoL would be extended so that Trump can be indicted once he's out of office. There is additional discussion leading Renato Mariotti and Katyal to agree that indictment while he's in office would be possible; he just couldn't be tried in court until he leaves office. Assuming indictment while he's still in office was possible and was used, remember that this is likely to be challenged in court for many months before it was resolved. If you choose this option, be sure to remember that a successful indictment is purely theoretical, has never been tested, and even if successful he would not be tried until he leaves office.

You can listen to the discussion between Katyal and Mariotti (December 8) here: https://ontopicpodcast.simplecast.fm/

While deciding on which option best suits you, be sure to remember that it is almost certainly Pence's fate to pardon Trump regardless of anything that happens.

You: "But none of these options are all that great! None of them offer a guaranteed or universally positive outcome!"
Me: "Trump was elected President; a universally positive outcome doesn't exist."

Seems to me you are taking the only approach you have available: Dreaming, hoping, praying, etc.
 

Cardinal

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Seems to me you are taking the only approach you have available: Dreaming, hoping, praying, etc.

I clearly laid out the realistic constraints and outcomes of each of the options, so your post makes it clear that you only read the poll options and not the OP itself.

Which is not surprising in the least.
 
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Tanngrisnir

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Seems to me you are taking the only approach you have available: Dreaming, hoping, praying, etc.

Seems to me you are taking the only approach you have available: compulsively denying Trump's long history of criminality, mafia connections, business and tax fraud and pathological dishonesty.

If you need that to be your security blanket against the pain involved in acknowledging those things, I totally understand.
 

Cardinal

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antiquity

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Seems to me you are taking the only approach you have available: compulsively denying Trump's long history of criminality, mafia connections, business and tax fraud and pathological dishonesty.

If you need that to be your security blanket against the pain involved in acknowledging those things, I totally understand.

What? You really described Hillary to a tee.
 

Mycroft

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I clearly laid out the realistic constraints and outcomes of each of the options, so your post makes it clear that you only read the poll options and not the OP itself.

Which is not surprising in the least.

None of your options will happen.

The fact that you even consider them is dreaming, hoping, praying, etc.
 

Cardinal

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None of your options will happen.

The fact that you even consider them is dreaming, hoping, praying, etc.

Still demonstrating that you didn't read the OP, I see. Such laziness.
 

Myview

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I think he should be indicted for crimes as soon as is possible. Then tried as soon as he gets out of office. If there is a way to extend the statute of limitations do that so the time for indictment doesn't run out. I think the final report of the Mueller investigation will be damning and damaging to Trump and further spotlight Russian Meddling in the 2016 election. I am leery of impeachment proceedings by the House Democrats because it will be seen as a purely political exercise and serve to motivate Conservative voters in the 2020 election. Barring some bombshell new crime by Trump I don't think impeachment is a good idea. It bothers me that Michael Cohen was charged with crimes and will be sentenced today yet Trump who directed him is not indicted nor has there been an announcement that he is a unindicted party to Cohen's campaign finance crimes.
 

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Strange poll, it straddles different times, and different players, in some cases, all at once. Hard to answer.

Things that are important to discover, and possibly pursue justice for:

Related to Trump:
- was the election itself legitimate given the Russian hack and potential assistance of Republicans
- Is Trump evidenced to have committed crimes by SDNY
- Is Trump evidenced to have committed crimes by Mueller
- What will Democratic oversight via the House, for the first time in this presidency, evidence?

I think today, you'd be addressing only one of those, SDNY. I feel until Mueller concludes his investigation, the House gets some traction, any action would be premature.
Impeachment today based on SDNY would be a mistake.
Eventually doing nothing, would also be a mistake.

So eventually, I feel impeachment, will be the right course of action. What happens then, is more up to Trump and the Senate, I don't know why I'd answer their side. What do I HOPE They do?
I suppose let it all play out and don't pardon, don't obstruct, and don't cut a deal. But I don't see how that's realistic.
 

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By the way, no, I did not "forget" to include "Trump serves out the remainder of his term." The poll options are intended to be proactive rather than passive solutions.

That is a valid approach. Manage Trump and pressure him not to run for re-election. I get the idea that your agenda is to elect Democrats. I would like to see the GOP strengthened and find a way to avoid Trump's stench.
 

Phys251

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Republican Senators are increasingly going on record making it clear that crimes are not enough to convince them that Trump is unfit for office, thereby disqualifying themselves, and the broader Conservative public at large, from serious discussion regarding Trump's crimes and his defrauding of the American people. But more practically, it means that conviction through impeachment is not possible.

Nonetheless, what do you feel is the best approach for dealing with Trump?

1. Impeachment. Sure, this won't result in conviction, but I feel Democrats' decision to impeach would make an important statement regarding the rule of law and the sanctity of our elections. Not impeaching would, in my opinion, cede the discussion altogether to Republicans' ambiguous, ever-shifting and disingenuous standards for what would be prosecutable or impeachable offenses.

2. Trump resigns in return for no impeachment and no indictment. This can be a demoralizing option since justice won't be served, but you have to consider your priorities. Is it more important that Trump leave office as soon as possible, thus sparing the country additional trauma? Or is it more important to see him finish out his term and maybe receive justice at the end of it? There is no obvious answer to this since by this point the need to see him gone is about as great as the need to see justice served.

3. Indictment. It is Neal Katyal's legal opinion that the statute of limitations would be "tolled." What this means is that the SoL would be extended so that Trump can be indicted once he's out of office. There is additional discussion leading Renato Mariotti and Katyal to agree that indictment while he's in office would be possible; he just couldn't be tried in court until he leaves office. Assuming indictment while he's still in office was possible and was used, remember that this is likely to be challenged in court for many months before it was resolved. If you choose this option, be sure to remember that a successful indictment is purely theoretical, has never been tested, and even if successful he would not be tried until he leaves office.

You can listen to the discussion between Katyal and Mariotti (December 8) here: https://ontopicpodcast.simplecast.fm/

While deciding on which option best suits you, be sure to remember that it is almost certainly Pence's fate to pardon Trump regardless of anything that happens.

You: "But none of these options are all that great! None of them offer a guaranteed or universally positive outcome!"
Me: "Trump was elected President; a universally positive outcome doesn't exist."

Let's assume for the moment that tRump has indeed committed the many infractions of conspiracy, bribery, fraud, etc. etc. of which he is accused. Then I think the only proper course of action is impeachment regardless of whether he gets removed by the Senate. To me, the goal of impeachment is not to get tRump out of office. That would be a huge bonus, but I'm not counting on it. Instead what I'm counting on is:

(1) Getting every single member of Congress, including the Senate, on the record as to whether they support the rule of law. Any of them who are not from strongly conservative districts or states and still supported tRump would have a hell of a lot of explaining to do.

(2) It would put a dent in the image of the Republican party that would last for decades. The key here is that we may only be talking a single-digit percentage point swing, but this is the difference between Pennsylvania going red and Ohio going blue.

(3) It would neuter this out-of-control president. Consider how much the Congress-to-President balance of power tipped towards Congress in the wake of the Andrew Johnson impeachment, a balance that persisted for decades. Maybe that's what our country needed anyway.
 

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I clearly laid out the realistic constraints and outcomes of each of the options, so your post makes it clear that you only read the poll options and not the OP itself.

Which is not surprising in the least.

What is the best approach for dealing with Trump? Donate to his 2020 campaign!!!!
 

Sampson Simpson

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Impeachment and resignation like Nixon. I'd be happy with him gone, even better if Pence is implicated with him, but I'll take Pence, he at least is a politician and can be respectful, even though he's a religious nutjob bigot

If his cabinet had any class and weren't complete dirtbag hacks, invoke the 25th amendment, as the guy is not fit to be president
 

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If you one of those people asking this question, there are all sorts of options Cardinal failed to list.

image.jpg
 

slick

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Impeachment and resignation like Nixon. I'd be happy with him gone, even better if Pence is implicated with him, but I'll take Pence, he at least is a politician and can be respectful, even though he's a religious nutjob bigot

If his cabinet had any class and weren't complete dirtbag hacks, invoke the 25th amendment, as the guy is not fit to be president

So I gather from your ramblings that you're in favor of a stagnant economy, the Iran deal, high taxes,
the Paris deal, open borders, unfair trade and a ineffective military?
 

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Republican Senators are increasingly going on record making it clear that crimes are not enough to convince them that Trump is unfit for office, thereby disqualifying themselves, and the broader Conservative public at large, from serious discussion regarding Trump's crimes and his defrauding of the American people. But more practically, it means that conviction through impeachment is not possible.

Nonetheless, what do you feel is the best approach for dealing with Trump?

1. Impeachment. Sure, this won't result in conviction, but I feel Democrats' decision to impeach would make an important statement regarding the rule of law and the sanctity of our elections. Not impeaching would, in my opinion, cede the discussion altogether to Republicans' ambiguous, ever-shifting and disingenuous standards for what would be prosecutable or impeachable offenses.

2. Trump resigns in return for no impeachment and no indictment. This can be a demoralizing option since justice won't be served, but you have to consider your priorities. Is it more important that Trump leave office as soon as possible, thus sparing the country additional trauma? Or is it more important to see him finish out his term and maybe receive justice at the end of it? There is no obvious answer to this since by this point the need to see him gone is about as great as the need to see justice served.

3. Indictment. It is Neal Katyal's legal opinion that the statute of limitations would be "tolled." What this means is that the SoL would be extended so that Trump can be indicted once he's out of office. There is additional discussion leading Renato Mariotti and Katyal to agree that indictment while he's in office would be possible; he just couldn't be tried in court until he leaves office. Assuming indictment while he's still in office was possible and was used, remember that this is likely to be challenged in court for many months before it was resolved. If you choose this option, be sure to remember that a successful indictment is purely theoretical, has never been tested, and even if successful he would not be tried until he leaves office.

You can listen to the discussion between Katyal and Mariotti (December 8) here: https://ontopicpodcast.simplecast.fm/

While deciding on which option best suits you, be sure to remember that it is almost certainly Pence's fate to pardon Trump regardless of anything that happens.

You: "But none of these options are all that great! None of them offer a guaranteed or universally positive outcome!"
Me: "Trump was elected President; a universally positive outcome doesn't exist."

As much as I despise him, I would love to see another 4 years of Trump just to see the liberals melt down and create more threads like this one.
 

Cardinal

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As much as I despise him, I would love to see another 4 years of Trump just to see the liberals melt down and create more threads like this one.

That's actually the reason why a large number of Trump supporters support him: to antagonize liberals. So...congrats?
 

Common Sense 1

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What is the best approach for dealing with Trump?

Please grow up and stop pretending that President Trump is not our president.
Stop with all the Russian collusion Bull crap. Stop comparing President Trump to:
Nazi's, Hitler , Mussolini. He beat Hillary fair and square. The election is over and he
will be president until 2020. And more than likely will win reelection!
 

upsideguy

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Republican Senators are increasingly going on record making it clear that crimes are not enough to convince them that Trump is unfit for office, thereby disqualifying themselves, and the broader Conservative public at large, from serious discussion regarding Trump's crimes and his defrauding of the American people. But more practically, it means that conviction through impeachment is not possible.

Nonetheless, what do you feel is the best approach for dealing with Trump?

1. Impeachment. Sure, this won't result in conviction, but I feel Democrats' decision to impeach would make an important statement regarding the rule of law and the sanctity of our elections. Not impeaching would, in my opinion, cede the discussion altogether to Republicans' ambiguous, ever-shifting and disingenuous standards for what would be prosecutable or impeachable offenses.

2. Trump resigns in return for no impeachment and no indictment. This can be a demoralizing option since justice won't be served, but you have to consider your priorities. Is it more important that Trump leave office as soon as possible, thus sparing the country additional trauma? Or is it more important to see him finish out his term and maybe receive justice at the end of it? There is no obvious answer to this since by this point the need to see him gone is about as great as the need to see justice served.

3. Indictment. It is Neal Katyal's legal opinion that the statute of limitations would be "tolled." What this means is that the SoL would be extended so that Trump can be indicted once he's out of office. There is additional discussion leading Renato Mariotti and Katyal to agree that indictment while he's in office would be possible; he just couldn't be tried in court until he leaves office. Assuming indictment while he's still in office was possible and was used, remember that this is likely to be challenged in court for many months before it was resolved. If you choose this option, be sure to remember that a successful indictment is purely theoretical, has never been tested, and even if successful he would not be tried until he leaves office.

You can listen to the discussion between Katyal and Mariotti (December 8) here: https://ontopicpodcast.simplecast.fm/

While deciding on which option best suits you, be sure to remember that it is almost certainly Pence's fate to pardon Trump regardless of anything that happens.

You: "But none of these options are all that great! None of them offer a guaranteed or universally positive outcome!"
Me: "Trump was elected President; a universally positive outcome doesn't exist."

Assuming that the Mueller report is scathing and there are a number of crimes to hang on Trump, including obstruction of justice, impeachment is imperative. Assuming (because we don't know yet, but there is a trajectory here).... that is exactly what impeachment is for, an unfit president.

Even if the Senate won't convict, individuals Senators will end up on the record. With 43% of the Republican senators up for re-election in 2020, it will give the Dems solid political ammunition. I would expect that Cons to lose 10 seats in 2020, including McConnell based on the Republican senators being shown to be wrong in looking the other way at a criminal in the White House.

If the Republicans were smart, they would vote of to convict Trump just to set Pence up to run as an incumbent. Trump has almost no chance of winning again (see results of 2018 election).

Again, its a bit early to speculate on this, including speculating that the Republican senate would cling to a sinking ship (they might). It depends upon how egregious the crimes. I believe (IMHO) the "charges" against Trump will be compelling and thus hard to ignore.
 
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upsideguy

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As much as I despise him, I would love to see another 4 years of Trump just to see the liberals melt down and create more threads like this one.

We all appreciate your anti-American attitude that frankly borders on childishness.

We don't pick our leaders to "p---" off the other side of the aisle. We are suppose to pick our leaders based upon what is good for America in the long-run. We get to disagree as whether going to the left or to the right is the right approach, but voting just to agitate your fellow Americans is rather reprehensible.
 

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We all appreciate your anti-American attitude that frankly borders on childishness.

We don't pick our leaders to "p---" off the other side of the aisle. We are suppose to pick our leaders based upon what is good for America in the long-run. We get to disagree as whether going to the left or to the right is the right approach, but voting just to agitate your fellow Americans is rather reprehensible.

True, but having no possible credible reason for supporting Trump, this is all they've got.
 
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