Republican Senators are increasingly going on record making it clear that crimes are not enough to convince them that Trump is unfit for office, thereby disqualifying themselves, and the broader Conservative public at large, from serious discussion regarding Trump's crimes and his defrauding of the American people. But more practically, it means that conviction through impeachment is not possible.
Nonetheless, what do you feel is the best approach for dealing with Trump?
1. Impeachment. Sure, this won't result in conviction, but I feel Democrats' decision to impeach would make an important statement regarding the rule of law and the sanctity of our elections. Not impeaching would, in my opinion, cede the discussion altogether to Republicans' ambiguous, ever-shifting and disingenuous standards for what would be prosecutable or impeachable offenses.
2. Trump resigns in return for no impeachment and no indictment. This can be a demoralizing option since justice won't be served, but you have to consider your priorities. Is it more important that Trump leave office as soon as possible, thus sparing the country additional trauma? Or is it more important to see him finish out his term and maybe receive justice at the end of it? There is no obvious answer to this since by this point the need to see him gone is about as great as the need to see justice served.
3. Indictment. It is Neal Katyal's legal opinion that the statute of limitations would be "tolled." What this means is that the SoL would be extended so that Trump can be indicted once he's out of office. There is additional discussion leading Renato Mariotti and Katyal to agree that indictment while he's in office would be possible; he just couldn't be tried in court until he leaves office. Assuming indictment while he's still in office was possible and was used, remember that this is likely to be challenged in court for many months before it was resolved. If you choose this option, be sure to remember that a successful indictment is purely theoretical, has never been tested, and even if successful he would not be tried until he leaves office.
You can listen to the discussion between Katyal and Mariotti (December 8) here: https://ontopicpodcast.simplecast.fm/
While deciding on which option best suits you, be sure to remember that it is almost certainly Pence's fate to pardon Trump regardless of anything that happens.
You: "But none of these options are all that great! None of them offer a guaranteed or universally positive outcome!"
Me: "Trump was elected President; a universally positive outcome doesn't exist."
We all appreciate your anti-American attitude that frankly borders on childishness.
We don't pick our leaders to "p---" off the other side of the aisle. We are suppose to pick our leaders based upon what is good for America in the long-run. We get to disagree as whether going to the left or to the right is the right approach, but voting just to agitate your fellow Americans is rather reprehensible.
That's actually the reason why a large number of Trump supporters support him: to antagonize liberals. So...congrats?
Antagonize is the improper verb and description.
Counteract would be more honest.
If you were being realistic then you wouldn't have made the poll. Because these only way Trump leaves office-I clearly laid out the realistic constraints and outcomes of each of the options, so your post makes it clear that you only read the poll options and not the OP itself.
Which is not surprising in the least.
Democrats should avoid impeachment unless there is blatant enough evidence of serious wrongdoing that they can get a decent number of republicans on board. Otherwise it's a meaningless symbolic gesture that's just going to get the Republican base fired up for 2020.
Even if Trump is impeached, or resigns, he'll get pardoned by Pence. You can forget about indicting him.
And offering to let him resign in exchange for not impeaching or indicting him is ridiculous, because at the moment, neither of those things is a serious threat.
The best option for Democrats is to minimize the harm Trump can do in the next 2 years and run a strong candidate for President in 2020 so that they can regain control of the White House. At that point maybe they can consider some sort of criminal charges against Trump, but I wouldn't be surprised if he attempted to pardon himself.
I didn't vote in the poll because all of your options are unrealistic.
If you’re still waiting for republicans to get on board then you’ve been completely asleep for the past two years.
Actually, I think you are wrong on this. Now IF and I do say IF they actually find high crimes (currently Republicans see no high crimes) and he actually gets impeached by the House for something that actually is high crimes (not just Democrat's TDS) then I think enough Republicans in the Senate would vote to make Pence president.
Impeachment and resignation like Nixon. I'd be happy with him gone, even better if Pence is implicated with him, but I'll take Pence, he at least is a politician and can be respectful, even though he's a religious nutjob bigot
If his cabinet had any class and weren't complete dirtbag hacks, invoke the 25th amendment, as the guy is not fit to be president
You're really feeling it aren't you? Does your crystal ball always short circuit?
(If the Republicans were smart, they would vote of to convict Trump just to set Pence up to run as an incumbent.
Trump has almost no chance of winning again
(see results of 2018 election).
Odds to win in 2020 by (Online Sportsbook & Online Casino - Price per Head by ABC Islands)
Trump is just about even money to win a second term. So those who make money taking bets disagree with your assessment that
'Trump has almost no chance of winning again'
2020 PRESIDENTIAL WINNER
75301 DONALD TRUMP +135
75302 KAMALA HARRIS +1000
75303 BERNIE SANDERS +1250
75304 ELIZABETH WARREN +1350
75305 JOE BIDEN +1750
75306 MIKE PENCE +2200
75307 OPRAH WINFREY +2400
75308 MARK CUBAN +4250
75309 KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND +3750
75310 COREY BOOKER +2750
75311 MICHELLE OBAMA +3300
75312 HOWARD SCHULTZ +5000
75313 JULIAN CASTRO +4750
75314 MITT ROMNEY +8500
75315 NIKKI HALEY +8000
75337 OTHER (2020 PRESIDENT) +350
By the way, no, I did not "forget" to include "Trump serves out the remainder of his term." The poll options are intended to be proactive rather than passive solutions.
Interesting, but not a particularly sophisticated analysis at this point. We are way too far away from the election to make such choices. The choices that have been made have been made by the less informed. Smart money always bets late.
I certainly don't like Trump at even money. Its almost nonsensical. Don't bet the farm.
That was an intelligent response to my post. It just has flaws for the reasons I outlined.
Impeachment and resignation like Nixon. I'd be happy with him gone, even better if Pence is implicated with him, but I'll take Pence, he at least is a politician and can be respectful, even though he's a religious nutjob bigot
If his cabinet had any class and weren't complete dirtbag hacks, invoke the 25th amendment, as the guy is not fit to be president
Senate Republicans undermined any leverage they have in the national debate by making it clear they don't care if trump committed crimes. Therefore, the disingenuous and ambiguous bar you just set is irrelevant.
Well, the Democratic senate set the precedent by not caring if Bill Clinton committed crimes.
Well, then you've made my point for me. Your pretend standard is disingenuous because you see letting trump off the hook as revenge for Clinton.
And you've made my point that your side is only interested in paybacks for both Hillary and Obama by going after Trump with nonstop nonsense.
Um...you're the one who brought up Clinton. I wasn't even thinking of her...and now Obama...until you brought them up. You're so obsessed with them that you're certain the same voices that dominate your head must be in ours as well.
In any case, you've confirmed my position that Republicans have no intention of ever being convinced that Trump is unfit for office.
What? You really described Hillary to a tee.
As much as I despise him, I would love to see another 4 years of Trump just to see the liberals melt down and create more threads like this one.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?