What is socialism?

[128shot]

I don't know..


Lately I've had trouble with comrade brian sending me sexy messages...

Just kidding brian. just kidding.

 

[freethought6t9]

how many freakin times do I have to say this?

the close to capitalism we get, the less the government will ever interfere. True capialism is the total SEPERATION of state from the economy.

And do you think this is the situation in the U.S. right now? Because if you do then you are a (and I do apologize for this unnessecary and vicious ad hominem attack) f**king retard.

Just look at the huge amounts business spends not only on campaign contributions but in corporate lobbying, look at the size of government contracts, especially in defense, privatisation of healthcare, education and social security. Capitalism has become the merger of corporate and federal as it is practised in the U.S. but unlike communism where this is done on terms dictated by the state (or more accurately the angry bloodthirsty mob outside your mansion) in the U.S. this simply involves corporations 'buying' government and the only means people have of finding out about this.

 

[128shot]

It gets my nerves when people think capitalism actually deals with the state.


The basis of capitalism is to get rid of a state, and quite frankly, we aren't accomplishing much in that regard.

 

[freethought6t9]

And the basis of communism is to hand cotrol over to the people. Did this happen? No, did they still call it communism? Yes. Is capitalism in the U.S. acting in a way as to disband the state? No, but is it still called capitalism? Yes. Stop debating semantics and start talking about the issue, namely has corporate America taken over the state and replaced it with an oligarchy of corporations, able to manipulate the public through the corporate media and dismantle democracy through campaign financing, thus ensuring only their candidates gain any exposure through their media and with their money. As a book title once said "The best democracy money can buy."

Actually that sounds pretty damn close to your definition of capitalism, albeit done in a very subversive manner with literally no openness or any real choice in the matter.

 

[128shot]

its too bad you forget one little thing.

in this type of take over, the free market becomes non existant, and that is the basis of capitalism.


I see it already, look at what oil companies are doing, and look at what the gov has done to agriculture.


This is, not capitalist in anyway.

 

[freethought6t9]

Well, I would agree with you if you said that these corporate oligarchies are not subject to the free-market. I am not trying to say that what is going on is capitalism, they say it, not me, I was just pointing it out, I'm just saying that what IS going on, whatever you want to call it, is extremely bad. The reign of these corporations is quite totalitarian, oligarchical or corporatist, pick any of these and we can continue our discussion on economic practices of the [__________] system compared to a more socialistic form of economy.

 

[128shot]

Oil has a long held monopoly between traders, not a single oil company will ever be taken down.

Why? Big gov doesn't want them to lose, and yes, I have heard some at least semi-creditable storys about oil companies putting a hit man on someone's life because they wouldn't sell over whatever it was that was a threat to them.

Agriculture is different.


It phased out competition by undercutting their prices when they recieve massive subsidies, and put the small time farmer out of business.

usually, I wouldn't care, since commercial farming was becoming the new mode of feeding the population, but they are holding a monopoly, and there aren't many ways you can start a profitable commercial farm without government help, because they set it up that way.

 

[freethought6t9]

It affects not only small time farmers in the west but has ravaged agricultural communities throughout the world, leaving another corp, to swoop in and take advantage of all the cheap labour suddenly so available. It is quite definitely not a free market.

 

[128shot]

It affects not only small time farmers in the west but has ravaged agricultural communities throughout the world, leaving another corp, to swoop in and take advantage of all the cheap labour suddenly so available. It is quite definitely not a free market.

many of these countrys were having these troubles before we started pouring tax money into businesses.

 

[freethought6t9]

well, yeah, but that was mainly due to European imperialism.