What is American conservatism? (1 Viewer)

[TheHammer]

What is American conservatism?




Who can define American conservatism?




Is the Republican Party a conservative party?




Are libertarians conservatives?




What’s a conservative democrat?




Who in the federal government are the conservatives? Can you name 3 or more?




What conservative principals are the same as or supported by the Constitution?

 

[TheDemSocialist]

What is American conservatism?




Who can define American conservatism?




Is the Republican Party a conservative party?




Are libertarians conservatives?




What’s a conservative democrat?




Who in the federal government are the conservatives? Can you name 3 or more?




What conservative principals are the same as or supported by the Constitution?

Im sure there is some literature on basic history of this subject somewhere....

 

[AmericanSpartan]

What is American conservatism?

The protection of Rights, Liberty, Property, Prosperity for ourselves and our posterity from the ravages of Government.

Who can define American conservatism?

People who are able to put aside emotionalism and use reason and facts.

Is the Republican Party a conservative party?

Kind of, the Neo Con wing of the party (Think statism lite) like Bush and sons, and Bonher are not Conservatives.

Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, ect are the real deal.

Are libertarians conservatives?

Without a doubt on most issues they are, when it comes to borders and immigration they fail to understand self preservation is the first and highest right of any people, culture and nation.

What’s a conservative democrat?

Non existent. You can not be for limited the power of the state while supporting the extension of the power of the state.




Who in the federal government are the conservatives? Can you name 3 or more?




What conservative principals are the same as or supported by the Constitution?[/QUOTE]

 

[TheHammer]

The protection of Rights, Liberty, Property, Prosperity for ourselves and our posterity from the ravages of Government.

Then conservatism is about “limited government,” right?
What about the unconstitutional Drug War, is that a conservative agenda? What about the Military Industrial Complex, is that limited government?

People who are able to put aside emotionalism and use reason and facts.

You mean like the “facts” that the Drug War locks up more American citizens than any other country in the world locks up of their citizens? Like the multi-billion $ Drug War simply provides a tax free huge profit market for criminals including terrorist? You mean like the fact that the Drug War causes violence in our streets and along our borders? You mean the “emotion” that is set aside about all of that so that the insanity of it can continue?

Kind of, the Neo Con wing of the party (Think statism lite) like Bush and sons, and Bonher are not Conservatives.

Can you name 3 actual conservatives in the Congress?

Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, ect are the real deal.

Doesn’t Rand Paul promote American military interventionism in the middle east? Is that a “libertarian” value? Isn’t Ted Cruz a neo-con that promotes BIG government prohibition of abortion, gay marriages and promotes international military interventionism? Are those libertarian and or conservative values.

Without a doubt on most issues they are, when it comes to borders and immigration they fail to understand self preservation is the first and highest right of any people, culture and nation.

Isn’t open but secure borders a traditional American policy and value?

Non existent. You can not be for limited the power of the state while supporting the extension of the power of the state.

But don’t the people that call themselves conservatives do that too? What about the BIG government Drug War, the BIG government Military Industrial Complex, the BIG government meddling in foreign nations politics and wars, the BIG government promotions of prohibition of gay marriage contracts, aren’t they all “extending the power of the state?”

What conservative principals are the same as, or supported by the Constitution?

 

[fmw]

Then conservatism is about “limited government,” right?
What about the unconstitutional Drug War, is that a conservative agenda? What about the Military Industrial Complex, is that limited government?

Nothing unconstitutional about it. Wasteful and stupid? sure. Everyone has their own ox. Nothing conservative about that.

You mean like the “facts” that the Drug War locks up more American citizens than any other country in the world locks up of their citizens? Like the multi-billion $ Drug War simply provides a tax free huge profit market for criminals including terrorist? You mean like the fact that the Drug War causes violence in our streets and along our borders? You mean the “emotion” that is set aside about all of that so that the insanity of it can continue?

OK we got your agenda. I'm against the drug war too but I'm not sure it has much to do with conservatism. Don't the majority of liberals support it also?

Can you name 3 actual conservatives in the Congress?

I can name two - Cruz and Paul

Doesn’t Rand Paul promote American military interventionism in the middle east? Is that a “libertarian” value? Isn’t Ted Cruz a neo-con that promotes BIG government prohibition of abortion, gay marriages and promotes international military interventionism? Are those libertarian and or conservative values.

So it is impossible for someone to be characterized with a political value system unless every single belief they have fits in your definition of the system? People do think for themselves sometimes.

Isn’t open but secure borders a traditional American policy and value?

Not lately.

But don’t the people that call themselves conservatives do that too? What about the BIG government Drug War, the BIG government Military Industrial Complex, the BIG government meddling in foreign nations politics and wars, the BIG government promotions of prohibition of gay marriage contracts, aren’t they all “extending the power of the state?”

I hate big government too but few people do. Certainly few politicians do. You will have to invent some new classification in which to put them.

What conservative principals are the same as, or supported by the Constitution?

All of them. It is the interpretation of them that do not and are not.

 

[DVSentinel]

According to the left, anything that they don't like and anyone not on the left. Unlike the left, which has many different names for leftism, all those on the right or simply not supportive of the left are considered conservatives.

Mainstream Republican politicians have indeed proven themselves to be conservative as they have done very little to advance changes away from past mistakes of the Dems. They have also often defended the status quo by blocking and fighting against further devastation from the left.

Though called ultra-conservatives, a misnomer, the fairly new TEA Party is not very conservative and has shown to want to actively change the status quo to more sensible positions, though often going a bit overboard.

 

[TheHammer]

Nothing unconstitutional about it. Wasteful and stupid? sure. Everyone has their own ox. Nothing conservative about that.

If the Drug War is constitutional, how come the Federal government found it necessary in 1919 to pass an amendment to the Constitution to prohibit the transportation and sale of alcohol?

If the Drug War is constitutional, what is the interpretation of amendments 4 & 9 of the Constitution?

OK we got your agenda. I'm against the drug war too but I'm not sure it has much to do with conservatism. Don't the majority of liberals support it also?

So because the left supports the Drug War, that makes it OK for conservatives to support it, right?

I can name two - Cruz and Paul

Since they’re both pro-middle eastern military interventionist, that makes them conservatives, correct?

So it is impossible for someone to be characterized with a political value system unless every single belief they have fits in your definition of the system? People do think for themselves sometimes.

How many beliefs does it take to be characterized as a conservative and what are they?

Not lately.

But isn’t open but secure borders a traditional American value?

I hate big government too but few people do. Certainly few politicians do. You will have to invent some new classification in which to put them.

How about BIG government authoritarian neo-communist/neo-fascist?

All of them. It is the interpretation of them that do not and are not.

Then you believe it’s too difficult to interpret the Constitution, so we should just let the politicians do it and trust what they do is constitutional, right?

 

[US Conservative]

Im a conservative.

It should be remembered that there exists a spectrum within conservatism, from the religious right to classical liberals/libertarians, to economic conservatives. Broadly, I see conservatism as the retaining of empirically proven and time tested ideas that are an overall benefit to the nation-this should not be construed as being resistant to change-but rather a clear benefit must be shown. I am also against coercion-even if I support a policy-I believe people are better able to decide for themselves rather than be forced by govt. If its a good idea, it does not need to be forced, and if its a bad one-why would I want to do that to another person?

I will share some of my views.

On the overall scope of govt, I believe in a small govt, and the closer to the people the better (state/local)-as accumulated power is a threat to liberty.

As for the war on drugs I am generally against it as I dont see it as being a decision the govt should have a say in-however Conservatives believe in following the law-and there are laws that prohibit the use, possession, and sale of drugs. I say this as a medical practitioner who has spent 15 years cleaning up drunks and drug users.

Frankly, I see the war on poverty as amongst the most destructive policies in the history of this nation, if its not dissolved it will likely end this nation.

The MIC is associated with having a world leading economy, industrial and technological sectors. Its also not unique to Conservatism, or even world powers.

On national defense, I believe in a strong national defense, and foreign intervention-its more a function of us living in a global society, and because the US is the worlds superpower. I see isolationism as incompatible with reality. Broadly described-I am content with other nations not shooting at us, and trading with us (not coercively). I see the US looking out for its own best interests as natural and desirable.

There are conservatives who are isolationists, while I disagree with them (and some libertarians) in his regard, it is not inconsistent with conservatism.

When it comes to abortion, while I personally and plainly believe its the taking of a human life (and abhor the arguments and spin that its not) I also dont see why my personal beliefs should apply to others.

On economics I believe there is no system better than capitalism, warts and all. I believe in a free market economy, with a bare minimum (or no) regulations by govt. I am greatly influenced here by classical liberalism and libertarianism.

On religion-I am not religious-however I am also not anti-religion. I actually see clear and profound benefits to religion (and marriage, etc) that are good for society, and any positive code of values that does not need to look to govt is a good thing.

 

[TheHammer]

Im a conservative.

It should be remembered that there exists a spectrum within conservatism, from the religious right to classical liberals/libertarians, to economic conservatives.

In other words, the label conservative is mostly a helter-skelter label that can mean just about anything somebody wants it to mean, correct?

Actually there’s no such thing as a conservative?

There’s no basic fundamental code of ideological political beliefs to identify with any certainty who is a conservative, right?

So, people that claim to be conservatives can also claim they support limited government while they support a BIG government Military Industrial Complex, a BIG government Drug War and BIG government prohibitions on gay marriages and abortions?

In other words conservatism is really being hypocritical and based on lies?

 

[US Conservative]

In other words, the label conservative is mostly a helter-skelter label that can mean just about anything somebody wants it to mean, correct?

Actually there’s no such thing as a conservative?

There’s no basic fundamental code of ideological political beliefs to identify with any certainty who is a conservative, right?

So, people that claim to be conservatives can also claim they support limited government while they support a BIG government Military Industrial Complex, a BIG government Drug War and BIG government prohibitions on gay marriages and abortions?

In other words conservatism is really being hypocritical and based on lies?

My point was that there's a spectrum, as there is with other ideologies. The common threads are respect for the individual, a desire for a small govt, and a respect of private property.

 

[AmericanSpartan]

Then conservatism is about “limited government,” right?
What about the unconstitutional Drug War, is that a conservative agenda? What about the Military Industrial Complex, is that limited government?

Nope, those are Neo Con actions. Neo Cons are statist.

You mean like the “facts” that the Drug War locks up more American citizens than any other country in the world locks up of their citizens? Like the multi-billion $ Drug War simply provides a tax free huge profit market for criminals including terrorist? You mean like the fact that the Drug War causes violence in our streets and along our borders? You mean the “emotion” that is set aside about all of that so that the insanity of it can continue?

Which needs to end, it is a waste of money, lives and creates nothing but tyranny.

Doesn’t Rand Paul promote American military interventionism in the middle east? Is that a “libertarian” value? Isn’t Ted Cruz a neo-con that promotes BIG government prohibition of abortion, gay marriages and promotes international military interventionism? Are those libertarian and or conservative values.

Yes he does.
How is protecting the 1st Amendment and unborn life a violation of Conservative principals?
Interventionism is a bad thing, occupation is even worse.

Are they 100%? Conservative? Libertarian No, but they are the 1st wave of Patriots that have been elected.

Isn’t open but secure borders a traditional American policy and value?

No, since when is being our nation, people, and culture being replaced demographically, cultural, economically, and politically a policy or value?

In the end of terrorism, disease, and globalization of the labor labor force we can not afford to have our borders open nor mass immigration.

But don’t the people that call themselves conservatives do that too? What about the BIG government Drug War, the BIG government Military Industrial Complex, the BIG government meddling in foreign nations politics and wars, the BIG government promotions of prohibition of gay marriage contracts, aren’t they all “extending the power of the state?”

Yes, they are Neo Cons....They are statist and they are to be stopped.

What conservative principals are the same as, or supported by the Constitution?

[/QUOTE]

The right to freedom of speech, religion, and association via the 1st Amendment.
The right and means to self defense via the 2nd Amendment.
The State rights IE the 9th and 10th Amendments
Limited Government Article 1 section 8
Limited and orderly immigration as in the Preamble "To secure the blessings of Liberty for ourselves and our posterity"

 

[Fenton]

Then conservatism is about “limited government,” right?
What about the unconstitutional Drug War, is that a conservative agenda? What about the Military Industrial Complex, is that limited government

Conservatives believe in the rule of law and that would include drug laws. Its one primary distinction between Libertarians and Conservatives.

The whole " Drug war has failed " narrative is a ridiculous mischaracterization of whats just continued enforcement of existing laws.

Its just more of the " pro- legalize it " crowds disingenuous attempts to justify legalizization.

For example, " the legalize it " crowd use to use the pretense of the supposed " medical benefits " of Marijuana as justification.

In reality their intent has always been legalization for recreational purposes.

Comparing failure to the fact that people still break the law is like saying the " War on Murder " or the " War on armed robbery " has failed.

No amount of law enforcement will completely stop the illegal activities those laws were intended to address.

Laws also cost money to uphold, allot of money and keeping illicit and destructive chemicals illegal is worth the money spent holding law breakers accountable.

 

[TheHammer]

My point was that there's a spectrum, as there is with other ideologies. The common threads are respect for the individual, a desire for a small govt, and a respect of private property.

So then people that desire a BIG government, i. e. BIG Military Industrial Complex, BIG government political meddling in other nation's politics and wars and building nations and people that believe in and promote a BIG government national Drug War and BIG government subsidies for private institutions, aren't conservatives, right? How would you label them?

 

[US Conservative]

So then people that desire a BIG government, i. e. BIG Military Industrial Complex, BIG government political meddling in other nation's politics and wars and building nations and people that believe in and promote a BIG government national Drug War and BIG government subsidies for private institutions, aren't conservatives, right? How would you label them?

Conservatives do indeed generally wish for a small and limited govt, but they aren't necessarily minarchists. In what are considered legitimate areas (like a strong national defense) this is seen. Foreign interventionism via war and diplomacy goes back to our Founders. Our first foreign war was an enormous expense-to combat the hostilities of the Barbary Corsairs, and by none other than the classical liberal Thomas Jefferson himself.

All nations seek to advance and protect their own national interests.

 

[TheHammer]

Conservatives do indeed generally wish for a small and limited govt, but they aren't necessarily minarchists. In what are considered legitimate areas (like a strong national defense) this is seen. Foreign interventionism via war and diplomacy goes back to our Founders. Our first foreign war was an enormous expense-to combat the hostilities of the Barbary Corsairs, and by none other than the classical liberal Thomas Jefferson himself.

All nations seek to advance and protect their own national interests.

Then conservatism and its correlation with limited government are a matter of suspicious evaluation totally dependent on the honesty and biases of the interpreter, right?

 

[US Conservative]

Then conservatism and its correlation with limited government are a matter of suspicious evaluation totally dependent on the honesty and biases of the interpreter, right?

The word honesty implies there's an intent to deceive when there's not, you aren't availing yourself to even the slightest bit of nuance here-thats an odd trait for a libertarian I must say. I may not agree with all of the conclusions libertarians or leftists come to-but I can at least generally understand them.

 

[TheHammer]

The word honesty implies there's an intent to deceive when there's not, you aren't availing yourself to even the slightest bit of nuance here-thats an odd trait for a libertarian I must say. I may not agree with all of the conclusions libertarians or leftists come to-but I can at least generally understand them.

Then you argue that there's an "honest" correlation between "limited government" and the promotion of a national Drug War, prohibition of gay marriage contracts and a woman's right to choose and a Military Industrial Complex that is bigger than all of the rest of the world's national defense institutions combined, right?

 

[US Conservative]

Then you argue that there's an "honest" correlation between "limited government" and the promotion of a national Drug War, prohibition of gay marriage contracts and a woman's right to choose and a Military Industrial Complex that is bigger than all of the rest of the world's national defense institutions combined, right?

Limited govt=/=minarchism.

Like I said, you are missing much of the nuance here.

 

[TheHammer]

Limited govt=/=minarchism.

Like I said, you are missing much of the nuance here.

Sorry, but I find no dictionary definition for "minarchism." Can you explain?

 

[US Conservative]

Sorry, but I find no dictionary definition for "minarchism." Can you explain?

May I ask where you looked for the definition?

 

[Fearandloathing]

In other words, the label conservative is mostly a helter-skelter label that can mean just about anything somebody wants it to mean, correct?

Actually there’s no such thing as a conservative?

There’s no basic fundamental code of ideological political beliefs to identify with any certainty who is a conservative, right?

So, people that claim to be conservatives can also claim they support limited government while they support a BIG government Military Industrial Complex, a BIG government Drug War and BIG government prohibitions on gay marriages and abortions?

In other words conservatism is really being hypocritical and based on lies?

OH FFS!

All ideologies, every political party in the known universe is a collection of variances. Even the weirdo Green party have people who believe trees have rights and people who don't.

"conservative" can come in as many flavors as "liberal" which the US left is certainly not.

I am a liberal. I am a member in good standing of both the Liberal Party of Canada and the Liberal Party of British Columbia, the latter being a very fiscally conservative, drill, baby, drill government to pay for a strong social safety net. Within both parties we have fiscal liberals who like spending. What differentiates is the level of intrusion into the daily lives of the people.

"Liberals" in the US are the worst melting pot of ideological sludge there is, encompassing populist socialism and fiscal conservatism in the same fold.

You will have to find something else with which to trash your "enemies"

 

[TheHammer]

May I ask where you looked for the definition?

My dictionary. the nearest I could find was "monarchism."

 

[TheHammer]

OH FFS!

All ideologies, every political party in the known universe is a collection of variances. Even the weirdo Green party have people who believe trees have rights and people who don't.

"conservative" can come in as many flavors as "liberal" which the US left is certainly not.

I am a liberal. I am a member in good standing of both the Liberal Party of Canada and the Liberal Party of British Columbia, the latter being a very fiscally conservative, drill, baby, drill government to pay for a strong social safety net. Within both parties we have fiscal liberals who like spending. What differentiates is the level of intrusion into the daily lives of the people.

"Liberals" in the US are the worst melting pot of ideological sludge there is, encompassing populist socialism and fiscal conservatism in the same fold.

You will have to find something else with which to trash your "enemies"

So then there's no such thing as a "conservative" standard set of political principles to identify American conservatism, right? When people say they're conservatives it's really like saying they're schizophrenics, right?

 

[iliveonramen]

What is American conservatism?




Who can define American conservatism?




Is the Republican Party a conservative party?




Are libertarians conservatives?




What’s a conservative democrat?




Who in the federal government are the conservatives? Can you name 3 or more?




What conservative principals are the same as or supported by the Constitution?

I'd say that it's law and order>tradition>limited government in that order. Law and order and tradition always trumps limited government

 

[TheHammer]

I'd say that it's law and order>tradition>limited government in that order. Law and order and tradition always trumps limited government

So, the "limited government" thingy that so-called conservatives claim they are promoting is really a lie, right?

So the limited government Bill Of Rights is void? I thought that was the "law and order?"