What is Alt-Right?

[JasperL]

Yes, I know it was in March.

:doh But you said, "Some grand wizard/dragon/lizard/whatever publicly endorsed Hillary Clinton last week. I don't even know whether she commented on it, but I don't expect her to."

It wasn't last week and she did comment on it at the time.

Yes, I know that too. My only point was that a Grand Wizard/Dragon/whatever had endorsed Clinton. Whether these pathetic, hateful losers are endorsing her or Trump, who cares?

No one cares that they're endorsing anyone. What we care about is Trump is pandering to them.

I don't care. I don't think most reasonable people care. Why would anyone care what a David Duke thinks?

I guess that's true, and what we care about is Trump is sounding an awful lot like David Duke on the campaign trail and is proposing policies right out of the white nationalist/white supremacist wish list. Which is why the speech which hit on their priorities to protect white culture and the white race drew rave reviews from white supremacists.

 

[JasperL]

The alt right is what will be called the republican party in a couple years. They are really classically liberal in their politics. They don't like social justice fads like blm and third wave feminism.

Didn't know "classic liberals" were white nationalists....

 

[JasperL]

They aren't. Best i can tell by looking at what they actually say is that they don't care about being called names. And that is the only tool in some people's boxes. They dint support feminism, blm, and argue against that type of thing and really ignore accusations of racism or bigotry. It really really gets under people's skin and that is why they slap brands like "neo nazis" on it.

Well, at least many leaders of the movement call it race realism, which is racism, but with citations to literature. And for lots of them there is no need to call them names, just quote what they write. The names follow naturally from there. They tell us the underlying goal is to protect white culture and the white race by keeping America white and avoiding "white genocide."

 

[JasperL]

You provided nothing but propaganda. As I pointed out the context of what Derbyshire said was misquoted.

The definition of racism is (in this context) the belief that the white race is superior to the black race. If racism has a meaning, it is exactly that. Derbyshire says this, regularly. It's what is called "race realism" which summarized simply is, "blacks are inferior to whites" which is racism.

And I quoted him word for word, accurately - copy from Vdare, paste here. If you think it was out of context (it wasn't, really, I provided the context) then explain how and provide the context.

As you mentioned there are other factors that affect IQ. Bribes of welfare/food stamps that rob a community of all self reliance is one of them. Democrats have been doing this to that community for over 50 years.

I have no idea what that means or what your point might be.

Thomas Sowell also said "The Welfare State has succeeded where Jim Crow, Segregation and Slavery failed."

What you don't get is this conclusion by Sowell is essentially that blacks are suffering in effect because of social policies, which is sort of a liberal conclusion although Sowell and liberals would claim different causes.

Derbyshire would vehemently reject Sowell's theory and the liberal theory and claim blacks are suffering because as a race they're inherently inferior. At the very least, he would claim that social policy has to account for their inherent inferiority as a race.

It's fine if you want to defend them but at least have the honesty to admit what they believe.

 

[CLAX1911]

Didn't know "classic liberals" were white nationalists....

What do you mean by that?

 

[CLAX1911]

Well, at least many leaders of the movement call it race realism, which is racism, but with citations to literature.

Actually it's the removal of racism. If you aren't going to be real about things because it casts a negative light on a particular cultural group, that's racism.

And for lots of them there is no need to call them names, just quote what they write.

Who? Give examples.

The names follow naturally from there.

That is more of a reflection of those calling the names than those they are calling.

They tell us the underlying goal is to protect white culture and the white race by keeping America white and avoiding "white genocide."

Who?

 

[JasperL]

Actually it's the removal of racism. If you aren't going to be real about things because it casts a negative light on a particular cultural group, that's racism.

I guess you have your own definition of 'racism' because mine includes the belief that whites are superior as a race to blacks. What is yours?

 

[Casca XV]

:doh But you said, "Some grand wizard/dragon/lizard/whatever publicly endorsed Hillary Clinton last week. I don't even know whether she commented on it, but I don't expect her to."

It wasn't last week and she did comment on it at the time.



No one cares that they're endorsing anyone. What we care about is Trump is pandering to them.



I guess that's true, and what we care about is Trump is sounding an awful lot like David Duke on the campaign trail and is proposing policies right out of the white nationalist/white supremacist wish list. Which is why the speech which hit on their priorities to protect white culture and the white race drew rave reviews from white supremacists.

Racist have endorsed both Hillary and Trump. But Hillary is the only one who has endorsed racist rite back. She did it in the past with Robert Byrd and She is doing it today with Racial Poverty Pimps like Al Sharpton and Grievance Groups like Black live Matter.

 

[JasperL]

Racist have endorsed both Hillary and Trump. But Hillary is the only one who has endorsed racist rite back. She did it in the past with Robert Byrd and She is doing it today with Racial Poverty Pimps like Al Sharpton and Grievance Groups like Black live Matter.

Oh, yes, what thread would be complete without the Robert Byrd boogyman. And obviously the democratic party embracing the KKK members like Byrd is why nearly all black office holders are democrats and why the black population votes overwhelmingly democratic, cause the party is the home to unrepentant racists like Byrd.... :roll:

 

[Casca XV]

Didn't know "classic liberals" were white nationalists....

The term "Liberal" when used prior to about 75 years ago describes a person who loves Individual Freedom and Limited Power Government. Most of them like the Founding Fathers were White, not that it really matters.

"Nationalism" is nothing more than pride on ones country. Progressive/Liberal/Socialist hate Nationalism because their Ideology has never created a great nation and in order to inflict socialism on a country they have to convince the people that their country is a bad place.

Over the last several decades Socialist hijacked the term "Liberal" for themselves. Today it describes a Socialist attempting to lie about what they are or a Useful Idiot who doesn't actually understand what ideology they are joining .

 

[CLAX1911]

I guess you have your own definition of 'racism' because mine includes the belief that whites are superior as a race to blacks. What is yours?

Who within the so called "alt" movement is saying such things?

 

[CLAX1911]

The term "Liberal" when used prior to about 75 years ago describes a person who loves Individual Freedom and Limited Power Government. Most of them like the Founding Fathers were White, not that it really matters.

"Nationalism" is nothing more than pride on ones country. Progressive/Liberal/Socialist hate Nationalism because their Ideology has never created a great nation and in order to inflict socialism on a country they have to convince the people that their country is a bad place.

Over the last several decades Socialist hijacked the term "Liberal" for themselves. Today it describes a Socialist attempting to lie about what they are or a Useful Idiot who doesn't actually understand what ideology they are joining .

I can't get a straight answer out of that guy.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Who within the so called "alt" movement is saying such things?

Only Milo...

" ...I don’t mean “racist” like the left does, where merely being white and male is a sin.
I mean rationalizing that you’re intellectually or culturally superior because you’re white. I mean believing that black and brown people are less valuable to society and should be viewed with contempt.
I’ve never met Milo Yiannopoulos and am not really that concerned with whether he’s a racist or not. Such accusations are what the left does ad nauseam and part of what Yiannopoulos rightly fights against.
But I do think he flirts with racism: “The alt-right openly crack jokes about the Holocaust, loudly—albeit almost entirely satirical—expresses its horror at ‘race-mixing… They have no real problem with race-mixing…” writes Yiannopoulos. ... "

Meet Milo Yiannopoulos, the Appealing Young Face of the Racist Alt-Right - The Daily Beast

 

[Casca XV]

Oh, yes, what thread would be complete without the Robert Byrd boogyman. And obviously the democratic party embracing the KKK members like Byrd is why nearly all black office holders are democrats and why the black population votes overwhelmingly democratic, cause the party is the home to unrepentant racists like Byrd.... :roll:

Every Racist policy in all US history is 100% the invention of the Democrat Party.

They are no better about race today than they were 150 years ago. They have just gone to the opposite extreme, and they are still the only political party to use racial hatred and envy to gain political power

Up until about 60 years ago the Klan was the terrorist arm of the Democrat party. Since then they have replaced the Klan with Racial Poverty Pimps like Sharpton, Jackson and other minority grievance groups like Black Lives Matter.

Although there are some racist who have claimed the Republican Party, unlike Democrats, Republicans never claimed them. The GOP is now and always has been the party of Lincoln.

 

[JasperL]

Who within the so called "alt" movement is saying such things?

I quoted Derbyshire. You said his writings weren't racist. I say they are, meet the dictionary definition. And so you've moved the goal posts here, which is fine, but a change of topic.

And every outlet for the alt-right and all the leaders I know are motivated at least by white nationalism - protect white culture in the U.S. by restricting or ending immigration here, legal and illegal, by non-whites. They're not shy about this - it's often on their top page. We had a video this week of a guy - what is the alt-right? The central topic was white nationalism in short.

As I keep saying, it's fine for people to believe that and argue for that. What's frustrating are denials that the alt-right doesn't at least have a HUGE swath of white nationalists running right through the center and therefore infecting the entire movement, along with tolerating or encouraging outright white supremacy and racism (aka race realism).

 

[Paperview]

Every Racist policy in all US history is 100% the invention of the Democrat Party.

They are no better about race today than they were 150 years ago. They have just gone to the opposite extreme, and they are still the only political party to use racial hatred and envy to gain political power

Up until about 60 years ago the Klan was the terrorist arm of the Democrat party. Since then they have replaced the Klan with Racial Poverty Pimps like Sharpton, Jackson and other minority grievance groups like Black Lives Matter.

Although there are some racist who have claimed the Republican Party, unlike Democrats, Republicans never claimed them. The GOP is now and always has been the party of Lincoln.

Conservative democrats.

And conservative republicans.

In Indiana, the GOP & KKK government were 'bout one in the same at one point.

"Staunchly anti-immigrant, anti-Catholic, antisemitic, and of course prejudiced against African Americans, the new Klan spread into Indiana in the 1920s under the Grand Dragon D.C. Stephenson. The second KKK was almost exclusively Republican in Midwestern states like Indiana as well as northern and western states like Maine and Colorado, although the KKK remained exclusively Democratic in the South.

Under Stephenson's leadership, the Klan flourished in Indiana and took over both the Governor's Office and much Republican Party in the General Assembly. With over two-hundred and fifty thousand white males (approximately forty-percent of Indiana's population) paying their Klan dues in Indiana, Stephenson amassed a fortune estimated from two to five million dollars.

In the 1924 Republican primary elections in Indiana, almost all candidates nominated for statewide office were Klansmen. One African American newspaper stated "the Ku Klux Klan has captured boot and breeches, the Republican party in Indiana and have [sic] turned what has been historically an organization of constitutional freedom into an agency for the promotion of religious and racial hate.Nobody now denies the Ku Klux Klan is the dominating power in Indiana Republican politics. In fact, the Republican party exists in Indiana today only in name. Its place has been usurped by the Klan purposes and leadership and issues." Most blacks in Indiana in 1924 casted their first ever ballot for the Democratic Party, which had passed a resolution denouncing the KKK in its platform without mentioning the Klan by name. Blacks in other areas of the United States, in contrast, generally remained Republican until the following decade. Despite the influx of blacks into the Democratic party, Klansmen won most of the Indiana legislature and most statewide offices in the November 1924 general elections. However, once in office, the Klan-controlled legislature passed little to no anti-black, anti-Jewish or anti-Catholic legislation.

In 1922, when the Klan-dominated General Assembly tried to pass a Klan Day in the Indiana State Fair, Republican Governor Warren T. McCray vetoed the bill and earned the ire of Stephenson and the Klan. The peak of their power and influence was in 1925, when the Klan had McCray arrested, imprisoned, and thrown out of office on a charge of mail fraud and replaced with Republican Governor Edward Jackson, who was a KKK member. Stephenson is infamous for his words "I am the law in Indiana."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Republican_Party#cite_note-12

https://scholarworks.iu.edu/journals/index.php/imh/article/view/10462/14635

KKK control the Colorado GOP -- including the Governor:

"After the general election of 1924, the republican governor, Clarence Morley, was a Klansman. Benjamin Stapleton, the mayor of Denver, consulted the Klan when making appointments. U.S. Senator Rice Means was elected with open Klan support. The state House of Representatives had a Klan majority. Klansmen marched and burned crosses in small towns throughout the state, from Great Plains through the mountains to the Western Slope. A city council, or the mayor's office, or the police and sheriff's departments, or the county government -- many fell under the Klan's control. "

Welcome to Kolorado, Klan Kountry | Cover Story | Colorado Springs Independent

 

[CLAX1911]

Only Milo...

" ...I don’t mean “racist” like the left does, where merely being white and male is a sin.
I mean rationalizing that you’re intellectually or culturally superior because you’re white. I mean believing that black and brown people are less valuable to society and should be viewed with contempt.
I’ve never met Milo Yiannopoulos and am not really that concerned with whether he’s a racist or not. Such accusations are what the left does ad nauseam and part of what Yiannopoulos rightly fights against.
But I do think he flirts with racism: “The alt-right openly crack jokes about the Holocaust, loudly—albeit almost entirely satirical—expresses its horror at ‘race-mixing… They have no real problem with race-mixing…” writes Yiannopoulos. ... "

Meet Milo Yiannopoulos, the Appealing Young Face of the Racist Alt-Right - The Daily Beast

What racist things has he said? I listen to a lot of his speeches. I haven't heard him once say any race is superior to another.

 

[Paperview]

I quoted Derbyshire. You said his writings weren't racist. I say they are, meet the dictionary definition. And so you've moved the goal posts here, which is fine, but a change of topic.

And every outlet for the alt-right and all the leaders I know are motivated at least by white nationalism - protect white culture in the U.S. by restricting or ending immigration here, legal and illegal, by non-whites. They're not shy about this - it's often on their top page. We had a video this week of a guy - what is the alt-right? The central topic was white nationalism in short.

As I keep saying, it's fine for people to believe that and argue for that. What's frustrating are denials that the alt-right doesn't at least have a HUGE swath of white nationalists running right through the center and therefore infecting the entire movement, along with tolerating or encouraging outright white supremacy and racism (aka race realism).

John Derbyshire? He's the guy that said Chelsea Clinton should be murdered in order to eradicate the Clinton bloodline.

Oh yeah. That's the guy.

What a dirtbag.

 

[JasperL]

Every Racist policy in all US history is 100% the invention of the Democrat Party.

That's nice because the party who nominated Clinton is the Democratic Party. Not sure I know much about the "Democrat" party. Seems to be made up by right wingers who listen to too much talk radio.

And I didn't know that slavery was invented by democrats who didn't become a party until 1828! Thanks for the alternative history!

They are no better about race today than they were 150 years ago. They have just gone to the opposite extreme, and they are still the only political party to use racial hatred and envy to gain political power

Right, the Democratic party isn't any better about race than it was just post the Civil War, which is why blacks run for office as Democrats and most blacks vote for candidates who are democrats. They are too stupid, I guess, to notice the party is just a bunch of racists. Is that your premise?

Up until about 60 years ago the Klan was the terrorist arm of the Democrat party. Since then they have replaced the Klan with Racial Poverty Pimps like Sharpton, Jackson and other minority grievance groups like Black Lives Matter.

So, you're comparing groups comprised of blacks working for blacks with the KKK who lynched blacks, beat them, etc.? That's interesting. It's a wonder why the party you align with doesn't attract more of these blacks who don't know they're in the racist party and don't know that black groups are actually working against their interests!

Although there are some racist who have claimed the Republican Party, unlike Democrats, Republicans never claimed them. The GOP is now and always has been the party of Lincoln.

It's just bizarre, then, that the modern "party of Lincoln" attracts so few blacks and so few blacks in the country run as republicans. Can you explain that? Do you need to figuratively sit the black population down and explain to them this reality so they'll know better and start voting GOP next time?

 

[CLAX1911]

I quoted Derbyshire. You said his writings weren't racist. I say they are, meet the dictionary definition. And so you've moved the goal posts here, which is fine, but a change of topic.

By asking a question I did all of this? I googled Derbyshire and all that came up was a county in England. So who did you quote?

And every outlet for the alt-right and all the leaders I know are motivated at least by white nationalism - protect white culture in the U.S. by restricting or ending immigration here, legal and illegal, by non-whites.

Who are these leaders?

Who is for illegal immigration of whites only?

Who is saying we should end legal immigration?

They're not shy about this - it's often on their top page.

I still don't know who they are.

We had a video this week of a guy - what is the alt-right? The central topic was white nationalism in short.

Who?

As I keep saying, it's fine for people to believe that and argue for that. What's frustrating are denials that the alt-right doesn't at least have a HUGE swath of white nationalists running right through the center and therefore infecting the entire movement, along with tolerating or encouraging outright white supremacy and racism (aka race realism).

I still don't know who they are.

 

[JasperL]

By asking a question I did all of this? I googled Derbyshire and all that came up was a county in England. So who did you quote?

Sorry, I got you confused with someone else. See post #531 where I quote him with a link to the site. He used to write for NRO before they fired him for being a race realist, aka racist.

Who are these leaders?

Who is for illegal immigration of whites only?

Who is saying we should end legal immigration?

I still don't know who they are. Who?

I'm not trying to be dismissive, but we've been having these debates on the alt-right for a couple of weeks now, since Hillary's speech. If you want answers to your questions, you can see those threads or just google Alt-right. Start with wiki, then go research the leaders mentioned. Or google alt-right outlets. alternativeright.com is one. I'm not sure how you can have an informed conversation on the topic without doing any research and this thread isn't the place to catch you up.

 

[Casca XV]

That's nice because the party who nominated Clinton is the Democratic Party. Not sure I know much about the "Democrat" party. Seems to be made up by right wingers who listen to too much talk radio.

And I didn't know that slavery was invented by democrats who didn't become a party until 1828! Thanks for the alternative history!


More like 1792, Started by Thomas Jefferson. They just changed their name a few times. Slavery predates the US itself. Every Govt policy Jim Crow, Segregation came from from Democrats.

(got to go, I will finish this later)

 

[Manc Skipper]

What racist things has he said? I listen to a lot of his speeches. I haven't heard him once say any race is superior to another.

In their own words.

Richard Spencer: “Our dream is a new society, an ethno-state that would be a gathering point for all Europeans.” He rejects the word “racist” because it’s “pejorative,” but “the notion that these people can be equal is not a scientific way of looking at it.”

Steve Sailer: "African-Americans “tend to possess poorer native judgment than members of better-educated groups. Thus they need stricter moral guidance from society.”

Milo: There's a couple of his signature inflammatory asides in this article.
https://thinkprogress.oer-milo-yian...rsity-ac5468a9e436#.vf5vz4iehrg/trump-support




A Guided Tour of the Racist, Crypto-Fascist ?Alt-Right? By Breitbart News - In These Times

 

[CLAX1911]

Sorry, I got you confused with someone else. See post #531 where I quote him with a link to the site. He used to write for NRO before they fired him for being a race realist, aka racist.



I'm not trying to be dismissive, but we've been having these debates on the alt-right for a couple of weeks now, since Hillary's speech. If you want answers to your questions, you can see those threads or just google Alt-right.

No. I'm not going to prove your claim. You prove it. Show me these people and their comments. If you refuse i suspect you of lying.

 

[CLAX1911]

In their own words.

Richard Spencer: “Our dream is a new society, an ethno-state that would be a gathering point for all Europeans.” He rejects the word “racist” because it’s “pejorative,” but “the notion that these people can be equal is not a scientific way of looking at it.”

Steve Sailer: "African-Americans “tend to possess poorer native judgment than members of better-educated groups. Thus they need stricter moral guidance from society.”

Well those fellows are white supremacists but I've never heard of them.

Milo: There's a couple of his signature inflammatory asides in this article.
https://thinkprogress.oer-milo-yian...rsity-ac5468a9e436#.vf5vz4iehrg/trump-support

What did milo say?