What is a bitcoin?

[Jerry]

...It is a certain amount of wealth. Instead of having a physical representation, bit coins have digital representations. The value of owning a digital representation of a bit coin is that you can trade that representation for "real" goods and services.

That doesn't answer my question. yes a bitcoin is a certain amount of wealth, but what is a bitcoin? What is the actual line of code at the core of a bitcoin? Could you please copy and past that line of code on this thread? What literally is a bitcoin. Yes it's 1s and 0s but what is it? Not what it represents, not how it's used, but what is it?

 

[Slartibartfast]

Gold has an establish value and is used to back certain currency, our dollar isn't backed by anything concrete.

And a long history of having an established imaginary value. Again the value of all currency is imaginary.

 

[Deuce]

Gold has an establish value and is used to back certain currency, our dollar isn't backed by anything concrete.

Gold's "established value" is just as arbitrary as paper or encrypted data. It's a shiny rock. It is only as valuable as we say it is, which is exactly same way we treat paper. Our dollar is backed by the government of the United States of America.

That said, anyone "investing" in bitcoins is a goddamned moron. A digital currency that anyone can "print," with a lovely history of security breaches. A currency, by the way, you can't really use anywhere because hardly anyone is dumb enough to accept them as currency.

 

[WCH]

If it's 'imaginary', then surely you won't mind giving me all of yours.

I'll trade them for gold or silver

 

[WCH]

Gold's "established value" is just as arbitrary as paper or encrypted data. It's a shiny rock. It is only as valuable as we say it is, which is exactly same way we treat paper. Our dollar is backed by the government of the United States of America.

That said, anyone "investing" in bitcoins is a goddamned moron. A digital currency that anyone can "print," with a lovely history of security breaches. A currency, by the way, you can't really use anywhere because hardly anyone is dumb enough to accept them as currency.

Our* government that's is up to it's eyeballs in debt.

You do know gold and silver are used in nearly every industry? They're not just shiny rocks.

 

[Jerry]

Our* government that's is up to it's eyeballs in debt.

You do know gold and silver are used in nearly every industry? They're not just shiny rocks.

I'm not aware of NASA insulating any satellite with US green-backs

 

[Deuce]

Our* government that's is up to it's eyeballs in debt.

You do know gold and silver are used in nearly every industry? They're not just shiny rocks.

I'm not aware of NASA insulating any satellite with US green-backs

Paper is used in every industry!

 

[Jerry]

Paper is used in every industry!

rof Dollars aren't paper.

 

[Deuce]

rof Dollars aren't paper.

Yes they are. Just not from wood pulp.

 

[LaughAtTheWorld]

Exactly!

But its much more then that. Its this. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/sunday-review/the-bitcoin-ideology.html?_r=0

"As Ms. Ploshay explained it, bitcoin isn’t merely money; it’s “a movement” — a crusade in the costume of a currency. Depending on whom you talk to, the goal is to unleash repressed economies, to take down global banking or to wage a war against the Federal Reserve."

In short bitcoin is far left anarchist money. If you use it you are supporting a ideology that is anti American at its root and Leftist revolutionary at its heart.

Could you define "UnAmerican"? Who determines "UnAmerican"?

 

[LaughAtTheWorld]

It's a good thing, and that is why Wall Street and the banks in the US are moving quickly against it. Stand against this move.

[video]http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=what+is+a+bitcoin%3f&FORM=HDRSC3#view=detail&mid=24DBBE67CA66878457E824DBBE67CA66878457E8[/video]

Why is it a good thing?

 

[the_recruit]

That doesn't answer my question. yes a bitcoin is a certain amount of wealth, but what is a bitcoin?

I've explained it to you. A bitcoin is a certain amount of wealth. It's not a physical thing that takes up space or time. It's no different than a dollar. A dollar is not the piece of paper with George Washington's face on it. That's a dollar bill - a representation of a dollar. A dollar is not a physical thing that takes up space or time. A dollar is a mental notion. It exists only in our minds. As does a bitcoin.

What is the actual line of code at the core of a bitcoin? Could you please copy and past that line of code on this thread? What literally is a bitcoin. Yes it's 1s and 0s but what is it? Not what it represents, not how it's used, but what is it?

A bitcoin is not a line of code. A bitcoin is not a collection of 1s and 0s. The bitcoin system uses lines of code and 1s and 0s to bring about transactions of bitcoins. But bitcoins are not lines of code or strings of 1s and 0s.

Not what it represents, not how it's used, but what is it?

You've got it backwards. A bit coin doesn't represent anything. Just like a dollar doesn't represent anything. A dollar bill represents a dollar. A dollar is an amount of wealth. One cent is an amount of wealth. A bitcoin is an amount of wealth. You seem to want a representation of a bitcoin. Here you go. Just like a penny. Now you should have no more difficulty understanding what a bitcoin is than you have difficulty understanding what 1cent is.

 

[the_recruit]

I'll trade them for gold or silver

I didn't ask whether you'd trade them for gold or silver. I asked if you'd give them to me. Why wouldn't you? Do they have real value or something?

 

[Jerry]

A dollar is not a physical thing that takes up space or time. A dollar is a mental notion. It exists only A bitcoin is not a line of code. A bitcoin is not a collection of 1s and 0s. The bitcoin system uses lines of code and 1s and 0s to bring about transactions of bitcoins. But bitcoins are not lines of code or strings of 1s and 0s.

A bitcoin has to be something, otherwise it wouldn't exist.

 

[the_recruit]

A bitcoin has to be something, otherwise it wouldn't exist.

It is something. I told you what it is. A mental notion. Just like a dollar.

 

[the_recruit]

A bitcoin has to be something, otherwise it wouldn't exist.

Let me be socratic and answer you with a question. What is a dollar? We know it's not this

That's a dollar bill.

We also know it's not this

That's a couple rolls of pennies.

So what is it? The answer to that is the answer to your question on bitcoins.

 

[WCH]

I didn't ask whether you'd trade them for gold or silver. I asked if you'd give them to me. Why wouldn't you? Do they have real value or something?

They're currently valuable at the store so, until they figure out the scam, I'll keep getting out of bed to go make them.

 

[Jerry]

So what is it? The answer to that is the answer to your question on bitcoins.

A unit of any currency is a claim against an asset. I'm asking something much more literal.

A penny is a metal disc. A Venetian trade bead is a bead made of glass. Wampum is a bead made of shell.

What is the thing which is being encrypted and called "bitcoin"? So far my best guess is the bitcoin itself is a reference code pointing to it's origin (the act which generated the claim, the block) like a uniqu UPC, which minus encryption may only be a couple dozen characters long.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Could you define "UnAmerican"? Who determines "UnAmerican"?

I did not say "UnAmerican" I specifically said Anti American. Anarchists do not want the model of system that is American Government. That is anti American since they oppose our government. "UnAmerican" isnt about support or no suport its about perceived ideas of what some people think is American. In most cases it used by groups like the religious right who feel that anything that doesnt fit their perception of being American is "UnAmerican".

 

[SgtRock]

A bitcoin has a number, for it is a human number, it's number is six hundred and sixty six

 

[Jerry]

A bitcoin has a number, it is a human number, it's number is 666.

Not sure where the mark of the Beast fits into this thread/topic. Please take your comments on that to the religious or conspiracy theory forum where it belongs.

 

[Rainman05]

Venetian trade beads had value because only a dozen people in one family on an island could make them. If anyone could have made a Venetian trade bead, they would never have been worth anything. If money I printed at home were accepted as currency, the dollar would inflate and crash overnight. If anyone can make a bitcoin, how can it be worth anything? Why would I trade you real goods and services for a bitcoin when I can just make a bitcoin myself?

So I've read up to page 3 to see if you had anymore problems with the concept of bitcoin, i don't know if it got cleared in the next 5 pages but here's my go at trying to explain it to you and maybe to others.

Bitcoin is, physically speaking, a string of bytes that say something.
So it's a lot of 1's and 0's put in an order that say do something and say something. If you wanted to show it to someone, it'll be the same thing as showing him any file you have on your computer. A .txt file, a .dat file, anything. well imagine there's a file .bitcoin which you can show people. That would be the closest to a representation as you could give. However, it's a flawed representation but it's the closest.

Now just like normal money has security features (like 3D security ribbon and a dozen more) bitcoin also has security in the form of encryption. Encryption is a basically a fancy way of saying that each bitcoin is secure from being duplicated by someone else. And here's the main difference, each bitcoin is uniquely secured with an encryption code. So unlike 100 dollar bills, if you figure out how to perfectly duplicate $100 bills, you can make them as many as you want because they all have the same security features but each bitcoin has it's own unique security code. This makes for 3 things :
1. incredibly secure
2. incredibly hard to control or track.
3. incredibly convenient to use in the digital world because you have no explaining to do as to why you used it as such.

what makes it valuable and how did it come to have value? Well like many things, it gained value because it was valued by other people to be able to do something. It exploded after the whole NSA scandal in value because people flocked to have bitcoins... but it was used before.

Now some people said that bitcoins were used primarily for criminal activities, and that is true. I don't know if the majority of bitcoin transactions have been to purchase illegal services off of illegal websites but a lot of people who used bitcoins early on were chinesse businessmen, basically venture capitalists, who wanted to take their money out of china without having to fear that the commies will come knocking on their door. Since a bunch of chinesse millionaires and billionaires used it... it had value and a market.

How did they do that and how do people use it for illegal services? I mean, it's not like you could go to piratebay and donate in bitcoins without the NSA or someone knowing that you did. But the internet is a series of tubes really. the simplest way to think of it is a LAN party of hundred of millions of people but you know, in a cleaner, neat fashion so that you need just 1 cable to connect to it all, instead of needing an individual cable to plug in your PC from each group of people who share a router.

Another way to think of it is this way. Say you have a big room where millions of people are. They all know each other and can talk to each other freely (because they all have IPs). But say, 100 of those millions of people also have a key to unlock a door which they can go in another room. So basically, they can go in another room where nobody else can and discuss whatever they want there. That is known as "the deep internet" and it's a place where you find a large number of people which more or less... you wouldn't wanna know in real life. This place also has a marketplace where people share things that are illegal. child pornography for one... Anyone can access it as long as you have the key to pass through the door. That key is something called TOR in most cases and TOR is free to use by anyone. Who made TOR? the US government. Well, some secret service of the US govt to provide a channel for political dissidents in countries that frown upon political dissidents and for CIA operatives to communicate without the fear of being tracked online. Great success... but it got also inhabited by a lot of other people.

now all these lead to the question: Is bitcoin good or bad? The answer is... neither. It's no more different than any tool you have in your garrage and no different than the dollars you have in your wallet from a MORAL standpoint. Is it safe? Sort of... is it a wise economic investment? that remains to be seen.. but my bet is that no, it's not. It's a currency that relies entirely on confidence. The moment some govt organization powerful enough and smart enough finds a way to dminish the security it provides... or anything to endanger the status quo, it'll drop in price and nobody will touch the thing. If you had pre-NSA scandal bitcoin investments, you'd be rich by now and have high time to sell. But yeah... how would you know that would happen.

I said govt above, but really, if anyone figures out how counter point 2 from above, the currency will collapse. Chances are a 15 years old hacker will do it before the NSA or CIA or whatever. My money is on the 15 years old with 150IQ that love programming.

 

[LaughAtTheWorld]

I did not say "UnAmerican" I specifically said Anti American. Anarchists do not want the model of system that is American Government. That is anti American since they oppose our government. "UnAmerican" isnt about support or no suport its about perceived ideas of what some people think is American. In most cases it used by groups like the religious right who feel that anything that doesnt fit their perception of being American is "UnAmerican".

Fair enough.

 

[Jerry]

So I've read up to page 3....

I have my General Settings set to display 100 posts per page, so this thread is less than 1 page to me.

If bitcoin is a file, the question I've been asking is "what's in the file". Not your description of what's in the file, but what is actually in the file, a real example of the actual code in the file. A real bitcoin copied and pasted into this thread.

Now just like normal money has security features...

I'm not asking what makes a bitcoin secure. I'm asking what is it?

What makes it valuable...

I'm not asking what makes a bitcoin valuable. I'm asking what is it?

Now all these lead to the question: Is bitcoin good or bad?

I'm not asking f a bitcoin is good or bad, I'm asking what is it?

I only asked one question: What is a bitcoin. You're talking about everything related to bitcoins except what it actually, literally is. If you don't know, that's fine, please leave the thread instead of filling it with your off-topic posts about securities and values and morality. That's not what was asked.

 

[Rainman05]

I have my General Settings set to display 100 posts per page, so this thread is less than 1 page to me.

ok, well it's where i quoted you from in the first reply, not that it matters.

If bitcoin is a file, the question I've been asking is "what's in the file". Not your description of what's in the file, but what is actually in the file, a real example of the actual code in the file. A real bitcoin copied and pasted into this thread.

I'm not asking what makes a bitcoin secure. I'm asking what is it?


I'm not asking what makes a bitcoin valuable. I'm asking what is it?


I'm not asking f a bitcoin is good or bad, I'm asking what is it?

Ok. Well people already told you what it is, repeteadly. It's a digital currency and more so, it's a cryptocurrency. You didn't understand what it was so I thought some visualization might help.
Digital currency = electronic currency created as a medium of exchange of goods and services. Until recently, digital currency = gold in world of warcraft or gems in some other game. spice in dune 2000 the game. Now, it's a real world thing.
Cryptocurrency = digital currency that is encrypted. so to ask what is bitcoin means to ask: what is cryptocurrency. The reason crypto currency is called as such is because it's currency that is encrypted... and the reason it is encrypted is so that people DON'T OPEN UP THE BITCOIN AND SEE WHAT'S INSIDE.

Unless... you can actually hack open a bitcoin which means you need to be really good. Which would reveal the code behind it and the algorithm used to create it. If you can hack open a bitcoin, go to the FBI and tell them to hire you because you're brilliant. As far as I know, nobody decrypted a single bitcoin thus far. the only incidents regarding bitcoin was that the people who had bitcoins had a ****ty protection and those bitcoins got stolen. The bitcoins themselves are not hacked, the "door" to the bitcoin room got lockpicked.

I only asked one question: What is a bitcoin. You're talking about everything related to bitcoins except what it actually, literally is. If you don't know, that's fine, please leave the thread instead of filling it with your off-topic posts about securities and values and morality. That's not what was asked.

...
I know what bitcoin is. I tried to explain to you using visualization.

Bitcoin is an encrypted digital currency. That's what makes it what it is. If you don't want to talk about security of bitcoin you basically don't want to talk about half of what bitcoin is and that's the fun part.

Here's me trying to give you one more attempt to make you visualize what bitcoin is.
So lets say you have 3 files on your computer.
a .txt file
a .avi file
and a .bitcoin file which we IMAGINE, VISUALIZE, that it's a bitcoin. In reality, this doesn't exist. but let's visualize.
What does each extension mean? It means that said files are encrypted in a certain way and you need some decryption protocols to read them.
What does this mean? It means that if you write a txt file, and type: "My name is Jerry", the computer will read it as "0"s and "1"s and will encrypt those files accordingly until you open that file again when it will decrypt the "0"s and "1"s into human readable language.

In order to open each file you need to use the right tools to open said files. So you need a software that:
a) has the right protocols to decrypt each
b) can transform machine code into human readable language if you want to read them.

A .txt file can be opened by windows media player with the right protocols. So while you can't run it as a movie, it can be run as subtitles. Why? Because windows media player has decryption protocols for both .avi and .txt IF you use it the right way. You can't run .txt as video, but you can load it as as subtitle.

Now let's try opening a .avi with notepad. You'll get a lot of mumbo jumbo. It'll be smth like this only longer depending on the size of the .avi file:

J*N<ÝŠø¶&]ÉŽÈÂ&ØÅ`£†¡k!“€S[1„¦qhÅ„fkŒ¶)ƒ‚©Ëz i[ê˜m¢7·©•ÊV}l'æÙZ¯B[óÅ;ñAK³É*óe€©©‡�»Á`
×j[¡�“±®*T¯�jG#“L•ò`�Z*cXÌç$Á€Aè+—‹"gø=nÑ&U«d•5R©U0ÌÄNº�
UDaÜ.ä³»o/—k•Rq™ØRp/„

Why? Because notepad hasn't got the right protocols to deal with video and audio encryptions.


So what about .bitcoin? Same deal. You can't just open it with notepad if you were to have such an extension. You need to use a software (bitcoin reader 2000) to see what is in that file because it's the only one that has the decryption protocols for decrypting bitcoin into human readable language. You also need the right software to use it. Otherwise, if you wanna see what's inside... well.. you better hack it. Good luck.

So bitcoin is a digital, encrypted currency. Nobody knows, except the guys who made it. And I mean guys as in, it's not a real person. A group (hint hint, anonymous maybe) made it and they released it to the public. and it received loved and now it's a thing.

Now this is a bit of lie and simplification. In reality, people know what protocols for encryption are used in bitcoins, at least some protocol standards... which is why you can trade them like you could trade in paypal. But it still doesn't mean that you can open one up just like that, the way you think you can. A lot of the encryptions are unknown and thus far, uncracked.