What has the second amendment done for the African American community?

[TurtleDude]

The Racist Roots of the Second Amendment

I only heard a few minutes of this on the radio. 45 min. podcast in link for anyone interested.

The Racist Roots Of The 2nd Amendment : Fresh Air

Carol Anderson says the Second Amendment was designed to ensure slave owners could quickly crush any rebellion or resistance from those they'd enslaved. "One of the things that I argue throughout this book is that it is just being Black that is the threat. And so when you mix that being Black as...

www.npr.org

this bullshit was destroyed on this board months ago. the guy who came up with this nonsense first did so before the HELLER hearing before the supreme court. once the court ruled favorably to Heller, a third rate talk show host tried to keep this nonsense going. It is complete garbage because some of the most anti slave states supported the second amendment/ At the lecture to the alumni-Yale University, May 2016, I asked Akhil Amar-Yale's top constitutional law professor about this theory and he said it was so bogus that serious legal scholars don't even deal with it. He pointed out that it had no support in serious legal literature or in case law

 

[TurtleDude]

Irrevant to my point, can soldiers shoot at people if they haven't shot first? Can a soldier decide a random civilian on the streets is a threat and gun him down?

Because ROE prevents soldiers from shooting first, but with cops you guys just seem to think it's fine for a cop to shoot first and ask questions later.

Is this your small government ideology in action, your rights disappear when a cop shows up?

why don't you tell us when YOU think police officers should be able to use their firearms. I know the answer since one of my duties was defending first state and local police officers in shootings and later federal LE agents. So you tell me what YOU think should be the standard since I know what the current standard is.

 

[Yes_Minister]

why don't you tell us when YOU think police officers should be able to use their firearms. I know the answer since one of my duties was defending first state and local police officers in shootings and later federal LE agents. So you tell me what YOU think should be the standard since I know what the current standard is.

You are answering my question with a question, answer mine first.

 

[TurtleDude]

You are answering my question with a question, answer mine first.

I already did-you are unable to understand military rules of engagement as well as police officers so I am asking you to explain what you think the rules should be- I have already given you the rules of engagement for civilian police officers. I am an expert on that professionally and personally given I had to shoot someone once

 

[Yes_Minister]

I already did-you are unable to understand military rules of engagement as well as police officers so I am asking you to explain what you think the rules should be- I have already given you the rules of engagement for civilian police officers. I am an expert on that professionally and personally given I had to shoot someone once

I don't care about your expertise, because I don't trust you to objective.

No, I asked if your rights magically disappear when a cop shows up and decides you are a threat if you don't perfectly obey them and you do everything to avoid addressing that.

 

[TurtleDude]

I don't care about your expertise, because I don't trust you to objective.

No, I asked if your rights magically disappear when a cop shows up and decides you are a threat if you don't perfectly obey them and you do everything to avoid addressing that.

none-now it is your turn to answer.

you cannot legally be shot for failing to obey perfectly a command. You can be shot if the trier of fact believes that the police officer had a reasonable fear that your actions jeopardized his life or limb

 

[PirateMk1]

I don't know about waiting for someone to shoot at you. I know most mopes aren't really good shots but someone who has my training-well If I got the first shot, I doubt i'd see return fire.

For police absolutely yes. They have abused their standing too much. If the military lives with it, the police can.

 

[TurtleDude]

For police absolutely yes. They have abused their standing too much. If the military lives with it, the police can.

the military does not except in certain cases. In times of war, you engage whenever you see the enemy. What do you think an ambush is about. And your comments about the police are really silly. We don't place the lives of thousands of officers at risk over a few (I repeat A FEW) bad shootings

 

[Yes_Minister]

none-now it is your turn to answer.

you cannot legally be shot for failing to obey perfectly a command. You can be shot if the trier of fact believes that the police officer had a reasonable fear that your actions jeopardized his life or limb

Then why bring up Castile not perfectly obeying the cop at the traffic stop?

And people far more knowledgeable than I have proposed changes to policing.

Redirect Notice

A Roadmap for Re-imagining Public Safety in the United States

Police violence has a long history in the United States and remains a pervasive problem to this day. As recent research by Human Rights Watch has shown, it is inextricably linked to deep and persisting racial inequities and economic class divisions. For reform efforts to be meaningful and...

www.hrw.org

 

[Yes_Minister]

the military does not except in certain cases. In times of war, you engage whenever you see the enemy. What do you think an ambush is about. And your comments about the police are really silly. We don't place the lives of thousands of officers at risk over a few (I repeat A FEW) bad shootings

Except the military and the cops should have different jobs, Philando Castile, Tamir Rice or Daniel Shaver are not Carl Panzeram or Albert Fish.

And there is a lot of corruption the cops engage in.

Redirect Notice

 

[TurtleDude]

Then why bring up Castile not perfectly obeying the cop at the traffic stop?

And people far more knowledgeable than I have proposed changes to policing.

Redirect Notice

A Roadmap for Re-imagining Public Safety in the United States

Police violence has a long history in the United States and remains a pervasive problem to this day. As recent research by Human Rights Watch has shown, it is inextricably linked to deep and persisting racial inequities and economic class divisions. For reform efforts to be meaningful and...

www.hrw.org

One of those articles starts with this crap. The author German Lopez is not an expert on this subject and was a hack reporter for a leftwing rag sheet in my home town..HIs article is infested with CRT bullshit

1) Police need to apologize for centuries of abuse​

 

[TurtleDude]

Except the military and the cops should have different jobs, Philando Castile, Tamir Rice or Daniel Shaver are not Carl Panzeram or Albert Fish.

And there is a lot of corruption the cops engage in.

Redirect Notice

Civil forfeiture is another area I am very familiar with-having tried at least 12 such cases to juries and many more to the courts. It does have some areas of abuse and the standards were increased on the government about 15 years ago. Many people don't realize that many drug dealers put property in the names of relatives who don't engage in felonious activities in order to claim that the assets should not be seized

BTW I oppose the war on drugs and getting rid of the war on drugs would end most-if not all-forfeiture abuses

 

[Yes_Minister]

One of those articles starts with this crap. The author German Lopez is not an expert on this subject and was a hack reporter for a leftwing rag sheet in my home town..HIs article is infested with CRT bullshit

1) Police need to apologize for centuries of abuse​

And I assume you propose nothing be done and we just keep the status quo right?

I always knew you were a hypocrite. Your small government ideology never applies to people you don't like.

 

[Yes_Minister]

Civil forfeiture is another area I am very familiar with-having tried at least 12 such cases to juries and many more to the courts. It does have some areas of abuse and the standards were increased on the government about 15 years ago. Many people don't realize that many drug dealers put property in the names of relatives who don't engage in felonious activities in order to claim that the assets should not be seized

BTW I oppose the war on drugs and getting rid of the war on drugs would end most-if not all-forfeiture abuses

You oppose the war on drugs but for Philando Castile and George Flyod you suggest they are drug users as way to demonize them, how does that work?

 

[TurtleDude]

And I assume you propose nothing be done and we just keep the status quo right?

I always knew you were a hypocrite. Your small government ideology never applies to people you don't like.

wrong, I want a small government-i oppose the war on drugs, but I tire of the CRT bullshit that the left spews.

 

[TurtleDude]

You oppose the war on drugs but for Philando Castile and George Flyod you suggest they are drug users as way to demonize them, how does that work?

Floyd was a POS and I cannot cry over him croaking given his violent armed robbery of a pregnant woman. its too bad he didn't get wasted while doing that. Chauvin was a rogue cop and deserves to be in jail for what he did, but Floyd was an asshole

 

[Yes_Minister]

wrong, I want a small government-i oppose the war on drugs, but I tire of the CRT bullshit that the left spews.

And what do you propose be done to prevent further police shootings similar to PC?

Floyd was a POS and I cannot cry over him croaking given his violent armed robbery of a pregnant woman. its too bad he didn't get wasted while doing that. Chauvin was a rogue cop and deserves to be in jail for what he did, but Floyd was an asshole

And those are capital crimes? Did a jury sentence him to death or do decide that rights do nor apply to people who are "not angels"?

 

[Logician Man]

Floyd was a POS and I cannot cry over him croaking given his violent armed robbery of a pregnant woman. its too bad he didn't get wasted while doing that. Chauvin was a rogue cop and deserves to be in jail for what he did, but Floyd was an asshole

Do you also believe Babbitt should have been 'wasted' for attempting to breach that security door/barrier, behind which our duly elected officials were attempting to conduct the people's business?

 

[Bergslagstroll]

Right to bear arms seldom works for minorities. Think for example what would have happen if some Japanese American had taken up arms and fought for their freedom instead of accepting interment during WW2.

The Tulsa massacre is also a horrific example of what can happen if a minority try to use the right to bear arms and stand up for their rights.

"More than 800 people were admitted to hospitals, and as many as 6,000 Black residents of Tulsa were interned in large facilities, many of them were interned for several days.[16][17] The Oklahoma Bureau of Vital Statistics officially recorded 36 dead.[18] A 2001 state commission examination of events was able to confirm 39 dead, 26 Black and 13 White, based on contemporary autopsy reports, death certificates and other records.[19] The commission gave several estimates ranging from 75 to 300 dead.[20][21]

The massacre began during the Memorial Day weekend after 19-year-old Dick Rowland, a Black shoeshiner, was accused of assaulting Sarah Page, the 17-year-old White elevator operator in the nearby Drexel Building. He was taken into custody. After Rowland was arrested, rumors which stated that he was going to be lynched were spread throughout the city. Upon hearing reports that a mob of hundreds of White men had gathered around the jail where Rowland was being held, a group of 75 Black men, some of whom were armed, arrived at the jail in order to ensure that Rowland would not be lynched. The sheriff persuaded the group to leave the jail, assuring them that he had the situation under control. An old white man approached O.B. Mann, a Black man, and demanded that he hand over his pistol. Mann refused, and the old man attempted to disarm him. Mann shot him, and then, according to the sheriff's reports, "all hell broke loose."[22] At the end of the exchange of gunfire, 12 people were dead, 10 White and two Black. As news of these deaths spread throughout the city, mob violence exploded.[2] White rioters rampaged through the Black neighborhood that night and the next morning, killing men and burning and looting stores and homes. Around noon on June 1, the Oklahoma National Guard imposed martial law, ending the massacre.

About 10,000 Black people were left homeless and property damage amounted to more than $1.5 million in real estate and $750,000 in personal property (equivalent to $32.65 million in 2020). Many survivors left Tulsa, while Black and White residents who stayed in the city largely kept silent about the terror, violence, and resulting losses for decades. The massacre was largely omitted from local, state and national histories."

Tulsa race massacre - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[TurtleDude]

And what do you propose be done to prevent further police shootings similar to PC?



And those are capital crimes? Did a jury sentence him to death or do decide that rights do nor apply to people who are "not angels"?

1) get rid of the war on drugs for starters.

2) tell people if they completely comply with the police officers' commands, their chance of being shot goes way down

3) you need to learn what a sentence is

 

[TurtleDude]

Do you also believe Babbitt should have been 'wasted' for attempting to breach that security door/barrier, behind which our duly elected officials were attempting to conduct the people's business?

I wasn't there and I don't know if she presented a threat of severe bodily harm to the officers-however, when a mob appears to be in a position to cause such death and destruction, the law normally will support officers or defending citizens who shoot someone who is part of the mob. What is the old saying-play stupid games-win stupid prizes.

 

[Logician Man]

I wasn't there and I don't know if she presented a threat of severe bodily harm to the officers-however, when a mob appears to be in a position to cause such death and destruction, the law normally will support officers or defending citizens who shoot someone who is part of the mob. What is the old saying-play stupid games-win stupid prizes.

Let me ask you this, TD. If a mob first breached your front door to your personal home, and then attempted to breach your bedroom door, where you and your loved one(s) were residing, what would you do, assuming you had a firearm within your reach?

 

[TurtleDude]

Let me ask you this, TD. If a mob first breached your front door to your personal home, and then attempted to breach your bedroom door, where you and your loved one(s) were residing, what would you do, assuming you had a firearm within your reach?

shoot the lead person and if that didn't stop them, keep shooting

 

[Logician Man]

shoot the lead person and if that didn't stop them, keep shooting

To me, based on the video I've seen of Babbitt being shot, that is exactly what the shooter in the Capitol did in a very similar situation, is it not?

 

[TurtleDude]

To me, based on the video I've seen of Babbitt being shot, that is exactly what the shooter in the Capitol did in a very similar situation, is it not?

I haven't seen the video in months and don't recall fully the scene. She played a stupid game and lost