What happens to all the AR-15s out there now when they're banned?[W:11]

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: What happens to all the AR-15s out there now when they're banned?

As an avid cigar smoker I do not hold tobacco companies liable for any negative consequences to my health that result from my hobby

Having watched my mother, my brother, and my uncle all die from their habits, from smoking cigarettes that were freaking DESIGNED to get and keep people addicted to them, let's just say I see things a bit differently...

...and your outlook on the matter is not "progressive" as your lean claims, but "libertarian".

 

[VanceMack]

Re: What happens to all the AR-15s out there now when they're banned?

Yeah, Alaska - the state with the twelfth-highest homicide rate. But I guess it's only the blacks up there who are killing people too, huh?

If you had half the clue you think you do, you'd realize that NO, it's not race - it's freaking POVERTY. Keep a demographic poor - as the Right in the Deep South sure as hell did and DOES try to do - and you're going to see more crime among them.

But if you haven't already, I'm sure that as soon as you read about the Council of Conservative Citizens, you'll be applying for membership there in the next few days.

:lamo

The 3% of them??? Alaska. geeeeezus....how desperate are you?

And now since you KNOW its the minority populated and democrat governed cities that drive those murder rates and you cant escape THAT fact, you pull out your next diversionary tactic....its not their FAULT. Its because of POVERTY.

NONE of that sad little tap dance you are doing is going to work, dood. It fails as miserably this time as every other time you try to pull it out of your ass. So...back to the premise you offered...you claim 'cowardice' on behalf of those that refuse to disarm American citizens. So...back to work. Gather up a crew of like minded people and start with those actually responsible for killing the vast majority of victims in this country. Cowardice? You cant even admit the truth that EVERYONE already knows.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Re: What happens to all the AR-15s out there now when they're banned?

Having watched my mother, my brother, and my uncle all die from their habits, from smoking cigarettes that were freaking DESIGNED to get and keep people addicted to them, let's just say I see things a bit differently...

...and your outlook on the matter is not "progressive" as your lean claims, but "libertarian".

On this matter that is correct. I highly value personal freedom. I value living in a society with a high regard for constitutional rights and a mechanical legal interpretation. And I like in my state I have the same freedom to own and use weapons as do police officers.

I do not believe though that progressive means anything involving gun legislation. Remember it was Governor Al Rosellini who signed the law allowing regular citizens to get concealed carry licenses for 5 dollars and a background check, I do not believe anyone accuses him of being a rock robbed conservative

Maybe I should go to the libertarian party convention and talk about single payer healthcare ad are how fast I get thrown out though.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: What happens to all the AR-15s out there now when they're banned?

:lamo

The 3% of them??? Alaska. geeeeezus....how desperate are you?

And now since you KNOW its the minority populated and democrat governed cities that drive those murder rates and you cant escape THAT fact, you pull out your next diversionary tactic....its not their FAULT. Its because of POVERTY.

NONE of that sad little tap dance you are doing is going to work, dood. It fails as miserably this time as every other time you try to pull it out of your ass. So...back to the premise you offered...you claim 'cowardice' on behalf of those that refuse to disarm American citizens. So...back to work. Gather up a crew of like minded people and start with those actually responsible for killing the vast majority of victims in this country. Cowardice? You cant even admit the truth that EVERYONE already knows.

Poverty leads to desperation.

Desperation leads to hate.

Hate leads to violence.

Indeed.

 

[VanceMack]

Re: What happens to all the AR-15s out there now when they're banned?

Poverty leads to desperation.

Desperation leads to hate.

Hate leads to violence.

Indeed.

Go join Glen in the gun confiscation. Show those other 'cowards' how its done.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: What happens to all the AR-15s out there now when they're banned?

Go join Glen in the gun confiscation. Show those other 'cowards' how its done.

Confiscation of guns doesn't solve the problem.

The problem is that some people are desperate and are willing to resort to violence. Some of that desperation is a function of income disparity, which is a disparity in how resources are allocated. It should be no surprise that people who are hungry and desperate lash out as a result.

 

[BretJ]

Re: What happens to all the AR-15s out there now when they're banned?

Nothing. The oh-so-evil-terrible lib'rul guv'mint's not a-gonna come git yer guns. Why? Because too much of America doesn't have as much courage as Australia had in response to the massacre in Hobart, Tasmania back in the 1990's. But no, nobody's gonna come confiscate any guns. It would be nice if we could return to an earlier time when Congress, SCOTUS, and even the NRA agreed that the 2A did ensure a right to own firearms, but the public did not have a right to own military-style weapons (and yes, there was such a time).

But that's not going to happen anytime soon - it's simply not politically possible.

Besides, I'm having a real hard time thinking of any time that an AR-15 or a .50 Barrett sniper rifle were ever used to stop a massacre or even a home invasion....

Show me when a Barret was ever used in the commission of a crime.....millions of AR owners can show you millions of times ARs where used lawfully. I can think of a number of things that kill exponentially greater numbers that we do not need as a society yet happily tolerate the deaths as a necessary byproduct.

 

[VanceMack]

Re: What happens to all the AR-15s out there now when they're banned?

Confiscation of guns doesn't solve the problem.

The problem is that some people are desperate and are willing to resort to violence. Some of that desperation is a function of income disparity, which is a disparity in how resources are allocated. It should be no surprise that people who are hungry and desperate lash out as a result.

1-Excuses dont impress me much. I dont give a **** if you had a hard life...you rape somebody, from a societal perspective I dont give much of a **** about how tough you had it as a child. You kill someone for their ****ing sneakers, I dont want to hear about how your daddy wasnt in the home and momma had to raise you on your own. They should stop using excuses. You should stop making excuses. You want to deal with societal problems? Sure...I'm your guy. I'm more socially liberal than most of the pretend liberals on this board. None of that matters when it comes to committing violent crime. Stop committing violent crime. How hard is that to understand?

And your hand wringing about the poor and downtrodden doesnt play when you consider the Orlando terrorist, nor does it play with regard to the San Bernardino shooters.

We DO agree on one thing. Confiscation of guns will not solve the problem. Neither will the ridiculous exercise of passing more background check laws, or waiting periods, or any of the other proposals going around. When it comes to violent criminals, mandatory minimums will.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: What happens to all the AR-15s out there now when they're banned?

Show me when a Barret was ever used in the commission of a crime.....millions of AR owners can show you millions of times ARs where used lawfully. I can think of a number of things that kill exponentially greater numbers that we do not need as a society yet happily tolerate the deaths as a necessary byproduct.

In your opinion, where is the 2A's limit? Automatic weapons? Mortars? Howitzers?

 

[jaeger19]

Re: What happens to all the AR-15s out there now when they're banned?

Here's what the family of the inventor of the AR-15 had to say:

"Our father, Eugene Stoner, designed the AR-15 and subsequent M-16 as a military weapon to give our soldiers an advantage over the AK-47," the Stoner family told NBC News late Wednesday. "He died long before any mass shootings occurred. But, we do think he would have been horrified and sickened as anyone, if not more by these events."

...

The bullets that tore through the Pulse nightclub in Orlando were Stoner's .223 rounds, fired from a AR-15 spin off made by Sig Sauer.

In all, an AR-15 style rifle has been used in at least 10 recent mass shootings — including at an elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut, a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado, and a work party in San Bernardino, California.

"What has happened, good or bad, since his patents have expired is a result of our free market system," Stoner's family said. "Currently, a more interesting question is 'Who now is benefiting from the manufacturing and sales of AR-15s, and for what uses?'"

Who indeed? Read my signature below.

My son and I benefit because he uses it for predator hunting and keeping the coyotes off the newborn calves. My son also benefits from the competitions that he enters using his AR 15 style firearm.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: What happens to all the AR-15s out there now when they're banned?

1-Excuses dont impress me much. I dont give a **** if you had a hard life...you rape somebody, from a societal perspective I dont give much of a **** about how tough you had it as a child. You kill someone for their ****ing sneakers, I dont want to hear about how your daddy wasnt in the home and momma had to raise you on your own. They should stop using excuses. You should stop making excuses. You want to deal with societal problems? Sure...I'm your guy. I'm more socially liberal than most of the pretend liberals on this board. None of that matters when it comes to committing violent crime. Stop committing violent crime. How hard is that to understand?

And your hand wringing about the poor and downtrodden doesnt play when you consider the Orlando terrorist, nor does it play with regard to the San Bernardino shooters.

We DO agree on one thing. Confiscation of guns will not solve the problem. Neither will the ridiculous exercise of passing more background check laws, or waiting periods, or any of the other proposals going around. When it comes to violent criminals, mandatory minimums will.

The "hand wringing" is about the increased propensity to violence among the impoverished. We have more than 10,000 people die every year from gun related homicides.

We do have a lot of people who are desperate and become violent as a result. If this was a handful of flukes, i might agree with you, but it's not. It is a systemic problem. Our system creates a situation where millions of Americans are desperate, and some of them become violent. Excuse or not, it doesn't matter. The idea that we should ignore a systemic problem in the system that we manage (as society is managed by government) is an exercise in ignoring an identified problem.

The Orlando shooter seemed to have other motivations- many are not motivated by poverty, but perhaps by alienation or cultural conflicts. That makes them separate problems than the epidemic of violence among our nation's poor.

And gun control won't solve this specific problem of impoverished people being desperate. Gun control can be an attempt to treat the symptom rather than the problem. The nice thing about gun control is that it attacks the symptoms of a great many of our problems simultaneously, though i don't think we should jump straight to it.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: What happens to all the AR-15s out there now when they're banned?

My son and I benefit because he uses it for predator hunting and keeping the coyotes off the newborn calves. My son also benefits from the competitions that he enters using his AR 15 style firearm.

I'm happy for you. I well understand why people who live in the country would want and *need* a firearm around - I grew up in the boonies, too - snakes and wild (and sometimes sick) dogs were good reasons indeed to have a firearm around. But I'd much prefer a shotgun for such varmints...and when it comes coyotes, an AR-15 isn't really any more appropriate than a good hunting rifle.

 

[BretJ]

Re: What happens to all the AR-15s out there now when they're banned?

In your opinion, where is the 2A's limit? Automatic weapons? Mortars? Howitzers?

Citizens own all of those things with no issue now. Has a crime been committed with them that we are unaware of? Personally, any firearm used by law enforcement is fine with me. Though private citizens owned artillery pieces during the framers time period. Why? Where would you stop?

 

[OpportunityCost]

Re: What happens to all the AR-15s out there now when they're banned?

The "hand wringing" is about the increased propensity to violence among the impoverished. We have more than 10,000 people die every year from gun related homicides.

We do have a lot of people who are desperate and become violent as a result. If this was a handful of flukes, i might agree with you, but it's not. It is a systemic problem. Our system creates a situation where millions of Americans are desperate, and some of them become violent. Excuse or not, it doesn't matter. The idea that we should ignore a systemic problem in the system that we manage (as society is managed by government) is an exercise in ignoring an identified problem.

The Orlando shooter seemed to have other motivations- many are not motivated by poverty, but perhaps by alienation or cultural conflicts. That makes them separate problems than the epidemic of violence among our nation's poor.

And gun control won't solve this specific problem of impoverished people being desperate. Gun control can be an attempt to treat the symptom rather than the problem. The nice thing about gun control is that it attacks the symptoms of a great many of our problems simultaneously, though i don't think we should jump straight to it.

The ability of the FBI to call a competency hearing for those they are investigating and a temporary injunction until a due process hearing on their 2nd amendment rights would do more to solve the problem than a ban would. It certainly would have in this case.

"Doing something" has somehow become more important than doing the right something.

 

[VanceMack]

Re: What happens to all the AR-15s out there now when they're banned?

The "hand wringing" is about the increased propensity to violence among the impoverished. We have more than 10,000 people die every year from gun related homicides.

We do have a lot of people who are desperate and become violent as a result. If this was a handful of flukes, i might agree with you, but it's not. It is a systemic problem. Our system creates a situation where millions of Americans are desperate, and some of them become violent. Excuse or not, it doesn't matter. The idea that we should ignore a systemic problem in the system that we manage (as society is managed by government) is an exercise in ignoring an identified problem.

The Orlando shooter seemed to have other motivations- many are not motivated by poverty, but perhaps by alienation or cultural conflicts. That makes them separate problems than the epidemic of violence among our nation's poor.

And gun control won't solve this specific problem of impoverished people being desperate. Gun control can be an attempt to treat the symptom rather than the problem. The nice thing about gun control is that it attacks the symptoms of a great many of our problems simultaneously, though i don't think we should jump straight to it.

As long as you keep making excuses for it there will always be someone with an excuse.

 

[BretJ]

Re: What happens to all the AR-15s out there now when they're banned?

I'm happy for you. I well understand why people who live in the country would want and *need* a firearm around - I grew up in the boonies, too - snakes and wild (and sometimes sick) dogs were good reasons indeed to have a firearm around. But I'd much prefer a shotgun for such varmints...and when it comes coyotes, an AR-15 isn't really any more appropriate than a good hunting rifle.

Why would an AR be any less appropriate for hunting coyotes then? Or are you only talking ARs of a particular caliber? I have an AR in 9mm that uses the same magazines as my pistol? Those count as bankable in your perfect world?

 

[jet57]

I think the AR-15 WILL be banned eventually across the board --- so what happens to all of the AR-15s out there right now which were purchased legally?

People keep the ones that they have, and the market dries up so freaks can't get a'hold of 'em.

 

[BretJ]

People keep the ones that they have, and the market dries up so freaks can't get a'hold of 'em.

Or not....

Btw, still mulling over why an "AR" pistol that uses 9mm Glock mags is more dangerous than a Glock? Do these also fall under your ban? What about AR10s or ARs that do not use those "high velocity" military rounds?

 

[jet57]

Or not....

Btw, still mulling over why an "AR" pistol that uses 9mm Glock mags is more dangerous than a Glock? Do these also fall under your ban? What about AR10s or ARs that do not use those "high velocity" military rounds?

No, they'll keep 'em. Nobody's gonna take your guns away dude.

Who said either one is more dangerous than the other, and so what?

What's this?

 

[Manc Skipper]

No, they'll keep 'em. Nobody's gonna take your guns away dude.

Who said either one is more dangerous than the other, and so what?

What's this?

View attachment 67203032

Recycled guns?

 

[jet57]

Recycled guns?

Mmmmmmm - could beeeeee

 

[BretJ]

No, they'll keep 'em. Nobody's gonna take your guns away dude.

Who said either one is more dangerous than the other, and so what?

What's this?

View attachment 67203032

Then what is the purpose of banning one if they are both equal in every one of your measures save , as you suggested, appearance? Your engine example is nowhere near as clever as you think. The examples I have given you are identical in performance. Using your example, it is comparing a blown 450hp 351 Cleveland with a blown Chevy 350 Small block. Both have the same performance but each is manufactured by a different company. You want to ban one because it is a Ford..and everyone knows Fords are bad..

 

[countryboy]

Re: What happens to all the AR-15s out there now when they're banned?

As time drags on, the AR-15s will become expensive collectors' items...which means that most of them will be out of the reach of minimum-wage workers who decide to blow a paycheck on whatever they can find at the gun store.

Ah, leftist policies helping the poor yet again. :roll

 

[BretJ]

Re: What happens to all the AR-15s out there now when they're banned?

Ah, leftist policies helping the poor yet again. :roll

They just won't come out and say only rich people should have firearms...

 

[jet57]

Then what is the purpose of banning one if they are both equal in every one of your measures save , as you suggested, appearance? Your engine example is nowhere near as clever as you think. The examples I have given you are identical in performance. Using your example, it is comparing a blown 450hp 351 Cleveland with a blown Chevy 350 Small block. Both have the same performance but each is manufactured by a different company. You want to ban one because it is a Ford..and everyone knows Fords are bad..

They will get banned too. The purpose is to keep people from using military USE weaponry from shooting people 100 at a time.

Dude; such weapons are designed for mass destruction. What part of this are you not getting? I mean, you SEEM like a very reasonable and smart guy, but the rest of US have our rights too.

Drones are now banned in certain areas because idiots can't use THEM right either.

Your arguments are flatly unreasonable.