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What exactly is "compromise"??

Bassman

Next we have #12. The Larch
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Well, we all know of the big circlejerk singing "Kumbayah" version of "everyone working together", but here's what I think. The GOP should just lay down and let the Democrats have anything and everything they want. No opposition, no debate, nothing! No strings attatched. Now bear with me for just a second folks. When, not if, but when the colossial Democratic f*ckup happens, all the Republicans have to do is sit back and enjoy the show.
 
so does this mean you guys will sit back and not gridlock congress when we try to make the rich pay less than the ronald reagan tax rates?
 
Well, we all know of the big circlejerk singing "Kumbayah" version of "everyone working together", but here's what I think. The GOP should just lay down and let the Democrats have anything and everything they want. No opposition, no debate, nothing! No strings attatched. Now bear with me for just a second folks. When, not if, but when the colossial Democratic f*ckup happens, all the Republicans have to do is sit back and enjoy the show.

Or you mean - sit back and get ****ed over with everyone else because of unstable policies and a decline in our economy - even more.

I'd rather have Gridlock and Filibusters for 500, Alex.
 
Well, we all know of the big circlejerk singing "Kumbayah" version of "everyone working together", but here's what I think. The GOP should just lay down and let the Democrats have anything and everything they want. No opposition, no debate, nothing!

You mean the way the Republicans ram-rodded their War on Terra legislation through Congress after Bush's 290 electoral vote "mandate"?
 
You mean the way the Republicans ram-rodded their War on Terra legislation through Congress after Bush's 290 electoral vote "mandate"?

bush didnt have a mandate, he had a republican supreme court in DC.
 
bush didnt have a mandate, he had a republican supreme court in DC.

Oh, I know. But Republicans, and the media in general at the time, didn't:

Defining Bush's "Mandate"

Winning 51 percent of the popular vote in Tuesday's election , Bush administration officials were quick to declare that the results constitute a "mandate" for Bush's second term. This interpretation of the election caught hold in the mainstream media-- a sign perhaps that White House spin was triumphing over the actual numbers recorded on Election Day.

The Boston Globe (11/4/04) reported that Bush's victory grants him "a clear mandate to advance a conservative agenda over the next four years." The Los Angeles Times (11/4/04) made the somewhat peculiar observation that "Bush can claim a solid mandate of 51 percent of the vote." USA Today (11/4/04) was more definitive, headlining one story "Clear Mandate Will Boost Bush's Authority, Reach," while reporting that Bush "will begin his second term with a clearer and more commanding mandate than he held for the first." The Washington Post (11/4/04) similarly pointed to Bush's "clearer mandate," implying that the election of 2000, in which Bush failed to get even a plurality of the popular vote, was a mandate of sorts, if an unclear one.

Broadcast media also took up the "mandate" theme. MSNBC host Chris Matthews announced at the top of his November 3 broadcast, "President Bush wins the majority of the vote and a mandate for his second term." CNN 's Wolf Blitzer (11/3/04) offered his assessment that Bush is "going to say he's got a mandate from the American people, and by all accounts he does." NPR 's Renee Montague (11/3/04) also relayed the White House's spin, before quickly agreeing with it: "The president's people are calling this a mandate. By any definition I think you could call this a mandate."

Of course, there are many definitions by which Bush's narrow victory would not be called a "mandate." Columnist Margaret Carlson, writing in the Los Angeles Times (11/4/04), posed the question bluntly: "What kind of mandate does he think he has with a 51 percent win?" More journalists might want to ask the same question.

While White House officials tout the total vote count for Bush as evidence of wide support, the increase in voter turnout and the size of the U.S. population also means that greater than usual numbers of voters opposed the victorious candidate. As Greg Mitchell of Editor & Publisher put it (11/5/04), "It's true that President Bush got more votes than any winning candidate for president in history. He also had more people voting against him than any winning candidate for president in history."

And Bush's slim majority is not all that impressive for an incumbent; Ronald Reagan, for example, claimed 51 percent of the vote in 1980, while gaining 59 percent four years later. Lyndon Johnson was the choice of 61 percent of voters in 1964, as was Richard Nixon in 1972. In terms of margin of victory, Al Hunt observed in the Wall Street Journal (11/4/04), Bush's victory was "the narrowest win for a sitting president since Woodrow Wilson in 1916."

If Bush defined what a modern mandate is in 2004, Obama has handily exceeded it in 2012.
 
You mean the way the Republicans ram-rodded their War on Terra legislation through Congress after Bush's 290 electoral vote "mandate"?

Ah - memories . . .back when everyone cried out 'nuke em' and 'give em hell' . . . and were all in support of every bit of it.
 
Or you mean - sit back and get ****ed over with everyone else because of unstable policies and a decline in our economy - even more.

I'd rather have Gridlock and Filibusters for 500, Alex.
that's the general idea. Allow the American electorate to see just how fu*ked up the Democrats really are. Then they won't see the inside of the WH till hell freezes over.
 
that's the general idea. Allow the American electorate to see just how fu*ked up the Democrats really are. Then they won't see the inside of the WH till hell freezes over.

Oh sure - so logical :roll:
 
that's the general idea. Allow the American electorate to see just how fu*ked up the Democrats really are. Then they won't see the inside of the WH till hell freezes over.

Perdon moi, but you do realize that, if the Republicans deliberately obfuscate every single issue from here until 2014, it's the Republicans who'll suffer at the polls, yes?

Mind Harry Truman: the economy bottomed out in 1948. Millions were unemployed. Yet he still won, because the responsibility for the recession was perceived as laying at the hands of an obstructionist Republican-controlled Congress.

I don't really mind either way, though. If the Republicans refuse to compromise on, say, a deficit deal, and we go over the much-belabored 'fiscal cliff', why, taxes will revert to their Clinton-era levels anyway, and Norquist's pledge will be violated all the same. The Republicans still lose.
 
Perdon moi, but you do realize that, if the Republicans deliberately obfuscate every single issue from here until 2014, it's the Republicans who'll suffer at the polls, yes?

Mind Harry Truman: the economy bottomed out in 1948. Millions were unemployed. Yet he still won, because the responsibility for the recession was perceived as laying at the hands of an obstructionist Republican-controlled Congress.
I'm not talking about obstructing. I'm talking about giving the Democrats everything they want without opposition, without debate. Just let them steamroll everything to their heart's collective desires. It's like forcing an alcoholic to binge drink until he loses the taste for alcohol.
 
I'm not talking about obstructing. I'm talking about giving the Democrats everything they want without opposition, without debate. Just let them steamroll everything to their heart's collective desires. It's like forcing an alcoholic to binge drink until he loses the taste for alcohol.

That's a bad idea, too. The Republicans tried it in the early days of the New Deal, under the assumption it would prove to be unpopular and the Democrats would get thrown out in 1936.

Unfortunately for them, it proved to be very popular and Roosevelt's coalition won three more national elections.

The problem with conservatives is that they no longer experience objective reality in the same way the rest of us do. It's sad, really. My grandfather was a 1970s-style conservative, a "liberal mugged by reality" who liked to think of himself as a hard-headed realist. It'd be nice for conservatives to make amends with reality, and stop sounding like liberals circa 1972.

We need a rational opposition, willing to check the majority Party where it's wrong but willing to work with it where the two can accomplish something for the good of the nation. Unfortunately, the Republicans are still out to lunch on being 'rational'.
 
That's a bad idea, too. The Republicans tried it in the early days of the New Deal, under the assumption it would prove to be unpopular and the Democrats would get thrown out in 1936.

Unfortunately for them, it proved to be very popular and Roosevelt's coalition won three more national elections.

The problem with conservatives is that they no longer experience objective reality in the same way the rest of us do. It's sad, really. My grandfather was a 1970s-style conservative, a "liberal mugged by reality" who liked to think of himself as a hard-headed realist. It'd be nice for conservatives to make amends with reality, and stop sounding like liberals circa 1972.

We need a rational opposition, willing to check the majority Party where it's wrong but willing to work with it where the two can accomplish something for the good of the nation. Unfortunately, the Republicans are still out to lunch on being 'rational'.
So you're thinking that the GOP needs to dump its base and moderate so far to the Left it would be indistinguishable from the Democrats?
 
So you're thinking that the GOP needs to dump its base and moderate so far to the Left it would be indistinguishable from the Democrats?

The Republicans at present are so far-right that they could expel every Tea Party caucus member from their ranks and the remainder would still be significantly more conservative than the Contract With America Congress of Clinton's first term, let alone, say, the (quite conservative) Republican majority elected in 1966.

Conservatism has not always been about appeasing every radical reactionary who thinks Abraham Lincoln was a GODDAMN USURPER or whatever. There's a reason that the National Review expelled the Birchers from the movement, after all.
 
The Republicans at present are so far-right that they could expel every Tea Party caucus member from their ranks and the remainder would still be significantly more conservative than the Contract With America Congress of Clinton's first term, let alone, say, the (quite conservative) Republican majority elected in 1966.

Conservatism has not always been about appeasing every radical reactionary who thinks Abraham Lincoln was a GODDAMN USURPER or whatever. There's a reason that the National Review expelled the Birchers from the movement, after all.
Yeah? Then will you start calling Libs to the carpet for their extreme Leftist whackjobs?
 
Yeah? Then will you start calling Libs to the carpet for their extreme Leftist whackjobs?

They largely have. Take someone like Alvin Greene, the Democratic opponent to Jim DeMint in 2010 in South Carolina. The guy was, by every metric, insane. And he received no support at all from the national Democratic Party.

In comparison, the Republicans have lionized figures like Allen West, who is - and yes, it's true, though you aren't going to want to admit it - at least as radical from the opposite end of the spectrum as Alvin Greene. The Democrats used to have a problem with radicals -- in the 1970s and 1980s. Today, the Republicans are the ones who can't keep their fringes from controlling the Party.
 
They largely have. Take someone like Alvin Greene, the Democratic opponent to Jim DeMint in 2010 in South Carolina. The guy was, by every metric, insane. And he received no support at all from the national Democratic Party.

In comparison, the Republicans have lionized figures like Allen West, who is - and yes, it's true, though you aren't going to want to admit it - at least as radical from the opposite end of the spectrum as Alvin Greene. The Democrats used to have a problem with radicals -- in the 1970s and 1980s. Today, the Republicans are the ones who can't keep their fringes from controlling the Party.
Yeah, and it'll be the Dems all over again with their kooks. Oh BTW, those so called radicals? the make up the base of the Democrat party.
 
Yeah, and it'll be the Dems all over again with their kooks. Oh BTW, those so called radicals? the make up the base of the Democrat party.

The radicals in the Democratic Party tend not to receive Democratic support - again, I direct you to the example of Alvin Greene, who received zero funding from the DSCC.

Meanwhile, Michelle Bachmann, Allen West, Joe Walsh, and several other odious Republican extremists were allowed to set the tone of the Party leading into the 2012 elections. And the Republicans paid the price.
 
The radicals in the Democratic Party tend not to receive Democratic support - again, I direct you to the example of Alvin Greene, who received zero funding from the DSCC.

Meanwhile, Michelle Bachmann, Allen West, Joe Walsh, and several other odious Republican extremists were allowed to set the tone of the Party leading into the 2012 elections. And the Republicans paid the price.
So now we would have two parties with zero differentiation. both exactly the same.
 
So now we would have two parties with zero differentiation. both exactly the same.

Not at all.

Consider social issues, more specifically gay marriage. There is no reason for a Party that's ostensibly committed to individual liberty and freedom to call for a Federal Constitutional Amendment banning gay marriage nation wide. The correct 'small government' position is to favor such issues being decided locally, and the correct 'pro-liberty' position is to favor gay marriage, provided that religious institutions can choose whether or not to perform them. As it stands, the hardline Republican approach on the issue is not only incorrect philosophically, but also increasingly politically poisonous as the nation shifts to favor this expansion of human freedom and dignity.

There's no reason a localist, individualist philosophy can't be favored by a majority. But it has to be absolutely divorced from the anti-rationalist, anti-liberty rhetoric the Republicans have increasingly embraced.
 
Well, we all know of the big circlejerk singing "Kumbayah" version of "everyone working together", but here's what I think. The GOP should just lay down and let the Democrats have anything and everything they want. No opposition, no debate, nothing! No strings attatched. Now bear with me for just a second folks. When, not if, but when the colossial Democratic f*ckup happens, all the Republicans have to do is sit back and enjoy the show.

That was the nov 9th episode of Limbaugh right? The whole el rushbo show right?
 
Not at all.

Consider social issues, more specifically gay marriage. There is no reason for a Party that's ostensibly committed to individual liberty and freedom to call for a Federal Constitutional Amendment banning gay marriage nation wide. The correct 'small government' position is to favor such issues being decided locally, and the correct 'pro-liberty' position is to favor gay marriage, provided that religious institutions can choose whether or not to perform them. As it stands, the hardline Republican approach on the issue is not only incorrect philosophically, but also increasingly politically poisonous as the nation shifts to favor this expansion of human freedom and dignity.

There's no reason a localist, individualist philosophy can't be favored by a majority. But it has to be absolutely divorced from the anti-rationalist, anti-liberty rhetoric the Republicans have increasingly embraced.
Doing that only alienates Social conservatives like myself. then we have nobody to represent our views. a people essentlally without a party or a country.
 
Doing that only alienates Slcial conservatives like myself. then we have nobody to represent our views. a people essentlally without a party or a country.

Under a localist scheme, you can still vote against gay marriage - locally. But there is absolutely no reason why you ought to be allowed to decide for myself, or anyone else who you'll never meet and who has no local economic or social interest in common with you, what ceremonies our local religious and philosophical institutions are allowed to conduct. If that alienates you, then you need to be alienated.

Alabama has the right to decide for itself to ban gay marriage. Maine has the right to decide for itself to allow for gay marriage.
 
Under a localist scheme, you can still vote against gay marriage - locally. But there is absolutely no reason why you ought to be allowed to decide for myself, or anyone else who you'll never meet and who has no local economic or social interest in common with you, what ceremonies our local religious and philosophical institutions are allowed to conduct. If that alienates you, then you need to be alienated.

Alabama has the right to decide for itself to ban gay marriage. Maine has the right to decide for itself to allow for gay marriage.

Right, leave the issue up to the states. Although I will never agree to it since my faith and personal philospphy is that homosexuality is an offense towards God. I agree leave it to the states. the other issue is abortion. Roe was just plain horrible in not just the killing of unborn children and the exploitation of women vis a vis Planned Parenthood and other abortion mills. It was just plain bad precident in that it stripped legislative authority from the states on this matter.
 
Right, leave the issue up to the states. Although I will never agree to it since my faith and personal philospphy is that homosexuality is an offense towards God. I agree leave it to the states. the other issue is abortion. Roe was just plain horrible in not just the killing of unborn children and the exploitation of women vis a vis Planned Parenthood and other abortion mills. It was just plain bad precident in that it stripped legislative authority from the states on this matter.

Even if you overturn Roe, a number of states have 'trigger' laws in place which vouchsafe abortion rights in the event of its overturning. Which is as it should be.
 
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