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What do you think it causes to stop persecuting Osama and start attacking Saddam?

conquer

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The war against the terrorists who caused the attacks of 9/11 had a twist in the middle of the action.

It is known that president Bush is a very good friend of the father of Osama Bin Laden, and it is hard to think that president Bush will order to catch and kill the son of his best friend in the Middle East.

On the other hand, it is known that some sources implied that Saddam Hussein tried to assesinate in the past to president Bush's father.

We were in Afghanistan fighting the real terrorists in their head quarters, and in one moment the war was deviated.

Why?

What do you think is the reason that caused this twist in the war?

1)- The friendship between the King of Saudi Arabia with president Bush?

2)- The personal revenge of president Bush against Saddam?

3)- Special interests taking advantage of the status of war to expand it and make great profit from it?

4)- Strategic measures made by US oil corporations to stop Iraq with their ongoing business with countries like Germany, France, Russia and China?

5)- Suspicious arms of mass destruction?

6)- Expansion of "freedom and democracy"?

7)- Other.
 
The war against the terrorists who caused the attacks of 9/11 had a twist in the middle of the action.

It is known that president Bush is a very good friend of the father of Osama Bin Laden, and it is hard to think that president Bush will order to catch and kill the son of his best friend in the Middle East.

On the other hand, it is known that some sources implied that Saddam Hussein tried to assesinate in the past to president Bush's father.

We were in Afghanistan fighting the real terrorists in their head quarters, and in one moment the war was deviated.

Why?

What do you think is the reason that caused this twist in the war?

1)- The friendship between the King of Saudi Arabia with president Bush?

2)- The personal revenge of president Bush against Saddam?

3)- Special interests taking advantage of the status of war to expand it and make great profit from it?

4)- Strategic measures made by US oil corporations to stop Iraq with their ongoing business with countries like Germany, France, Russia and China?

5)- Suspicious arms of mass destruction?

6)- Expansion of "freedom and democracy"?

7)- Other.

Who says we stopped?
 
And why would you state Bin Laden is being persecuted?
 
I think he meant pursue.

I'm not sure English is his first language, so go easy on him : )

Ohhhh....you may be right. Thanks and I'm :3oops:
 
I think conquer might be transplanted Chinese?

Regardless, number 4 is at the top of my list. Specifically in terms of the economic situational developments regarding China and Russia. We weren't about to let them project their influence any further into that region.
 
I think conquer might be transplanted Chinese?

Close, just working as a part time janitor in a Korean carry out...:roll:

Regardless, number 4 is at the top of my list. Specifically in terms of the economic situational developments regarding China and Russia. We weren't about to let them project their influence any further into that region.

For me #4 is also the possible top reason when months before the invasion Saddam announced that his regime would stop using dollars and start using Euros only.

The American dollar is not the stronger monetary unit when is compared with the currency from UK, Russia or Japan, but the reason why the dollar still is "more powerful" than other monetary currencies is its circulation around the world. Even today, when the Euro is going up in value and the dollar down in comparison to many other currencies, the dollar still is the accepted money in the entire globe. Try to use the Russian currency in any restaurant or store of Australia, Chile or Spain and it won't be accepted. Use the dollar and still is a welcomed money.

If Saddam was successful eliminating the dollar from its trading business, other Middle East countries should start doing the same and the dollar should lose its influence in that part of the globe.

On the other hand, China, Russia, Germany and France were making deals under the table with Saddam , something which was not approved by the sanctions from the UN after Iraq lost the war by invading Kuwait.

US and UK were left outside those deals, and in order to stop the other nations to take the lead to expand their influence in Iraq, the invasion was focused to take Saddam out of power and the contracts made by this dictator with France, China, Russia, and Germany became invalid.

The risk still is the costs of this intervention, and the hope is to stop these other countries to be successful and exploit the oil of Iraq.

This war appears to be a great investment to hold the monopolization of the oil from this south zone the Middle East.
 
Close, just working as a part time janitor in a Korean carry out...:roll:



For me #4 is also the possible top reason when months before the invasion Saddam announced that his regime would stop using dollars and start using Euros only.

The American dollar is not the stronger monetary unit when is compared with the currency from UK, Russia or Japan, but the reason why the dollar still is "more powerful" than other monetary currencies is its circulation around the world. Even today, when the Euro is going up in value and the dollar down in comparison to many other currencies, the dollar still is the accepted money in the entire globe. Try to use the Russian currency in any restaurant or store of Australia, Chile or Spain and it won't be accepted. Use the dollar and still is a welcomed money.

If Saddam was successful eliminating the dollar from its trading business, other Middle East countries should start doing the same and the dollar should lose its influence in that part of the globe.

On the other hand, China, Russia, Germany and France were making deals under the table with Saddam , something which was not approved by the sanctions from the UN after Iraq lost the war by invading Kuwait.

US and UK were left outside those deals, and in order to stop the other nations to take the lead to expand their influence in Iraq, the invasion was focused to take Saddam out of power and the contracts made by this dictator with France, China, Russia, and Germany became invalid.

The risk still is the costs of this intervention, and the hope is to stop these other countries to be successful and exploit the oil of Iraq.

This war appears to be a great investment to hold the monopolization of the oil from this south zone the Middle East.

I'm again curious, why did you state "persecuting" Bin Laden?
 
I'm again curious, why did you state "persecuting" Bin Laden?

Bin Laden is attacking the US presence (read West influence) in the Middle East by a religious motivation.

The assuming action to "pursue" Bin Laden has been already discarded when years ago some news came with a leak that Laden has been captured by the US forces more than one time but that he was released again and again. Like a game.

This leak came in times when president Bush also declared in a speech that to capture Laden wasn't that important as some people thought it was. These events happened when the invasion to Iraq was in its beginning and the current administration used this scapegoat to stop persecuting Osama Bin Laden.
 
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The war against the terrorists who caused the attacks of 9/11 had a twist in the middle of the action.

And from the start it wasn't "The war agains terrorist who cuased the attacks of 9/11" but stated as a "War against terrorist and the nations that sponsor or support them". 9/11 was an example of what the political ideology of terrorism can do to us. Bush's statements was never JUST to hit those specifically involved with 9/11 and nothing else and saying it was is twisting facts.

It is known that president Bush is a very good friend of the father of Osama Bin Laden, and it is hard to think that president Bush will order to catch and kill the son of his best friend in the Middle East.

Do you have any proof that Bush's "Best friend in the middle east" is Bin Laden's father? Furthermore, proof that Bin Laden is even close in any way with his father as things I've read paint him as being the black sheep of the family.

On the other hand, it is known that some sources implied that Saddam Hussein tried to assesinate in the past to president Bush's father.

I've seen this stated to.

We were in Afghanistan fighting the real terrorists in their head quarters, and in one moment the war was deviated.

Ah, guess we do'nt have people in Afghanistan anymore. Wait, we do, so not "too" deviated eh? And the main organization that was sponsoring and supporting terrorism in that region was deposed, and sent running, unable to organize well enough to do any further major damage and thus...and in this part I agree was bad strategy...forces were withdrawn to a point believing that the last remnants could be disposed of with less people.


What do you think is the reason that caused this twist in the war?

Easy. The war was never about just those that hit us on 9/11 but the issues with middle eastern extremists and their views in regards to American and the west, be it due to religious or interventional reasons. The Bush plan was to establish a democratic head quarters in the heart of the terrorist geographic location, the middle east, and it happened that we had a number of outstanding U.N. resolutions that could be used as a baseline for the invasion on an international level. I have no doubt Iran likely would've been the prefered target but at the point there was no real good way to justify it internationally (Iraq was shaky enough). With that said, lets look at yours...

1)- The friendship between the King of Saudi Arabia with president Bush?

If by this you mean "the friendship between the King of Saudi Arabia and numerous american politicians", perhaps. Saudi interaction and influence of American government dates to LONG before Bush was in power. It may have had some influence but not much.

2)- The personal revenge of president Bush against Saddam?

Doubtful. This is a great movie cliche and thus permeates the mindset of those that hate Bush but I think this is at most a subconcious thing that may've added to it minorly.

3)- Special interests taking advantage of the status of war to expand it and make great profit from it?

Quite possible from a low standpoint

4)- Strategic measures made by US oil corporations to stop Iraq with their ongoing business with countries like Germany, France, Russia and China?

Remove "U.S. Oil Corps." with "U.S. Government" and I'd say this could very well be a legitimate one. One of the oldest rationals and reasons for war has always been supply and comodity control. With the growing possible thread of China and Russia in the future, wanting to have a bit of a hold on what goes on with some middle eastern oil is something I could see having an impact into this.

5)- Suspicious arms of mass destruction?

I DO think this is part of it. At that time, it was hardly just the Bush administration touting this. Even those on the security committee in congress that would have almost all the same intelligence as the President seemed to believe it. In hindsight, that seems almost impossible to imagine but looking at it from a reasonable, not Bush hating perspective, its completely reasonable. We just got hit, paranoia likely is at a high, even the whiff of potential of a WMD would be enough to cause even seasoned politicians to likely look at worse case scenario information as more credible. And the belief of them having WMD's or persuing them was hardly new as it was prevelant all through the Clinton administration and there's info out there that Saddam purposefully made it seem as if he was persuing them.

6)- Expansion of "freedom and democracy"?

See above; this I think is a massive one, in so much as the over all strategy on conducting the war on terror more so then to actually spread it for the sake of the countries people.
 
The Bush plan was to establish a democratic head quarters in the heart of the terrorist geographic location, the middle east,...

This current administration's brainwashing really works! :shock:
 
Bin Laden is attacking the US presence (read West influence) in the Middle East by a religious motivation.

Certainly Bin Laden may feel he is being persecuted and his supporters would posit such. But America did not attack him because of his religion but because he orchestrated, both financially and in a leadership capacity, terrorist attacks against our nation within the continental US and abroad.

Imo your use of this transitive verb is erroneous and not accurate. Of course you have every right to posit your op as you see fit but I will not endorse, implicitly or explicitly, we are "persecuting" Bin Laden because of his religion.

Conquer said:
The assuming action to "pursue" Bin Laden has been already discarded when years ago some news came with a leak that Laden has been captured by the US forces more than one time but that he was released again and again. Like a game.

This leak came in times when president Bush also declared in a speech that to capture Laden wasn't that important as some people thought it was. These events happened when the invasion to Iraq was in its beginning and the current administration used this scapegoat to stop persecuting Osama Bin Laden.

You need to back up these claims because at this point, without referenced support, your claims are simply propaganda and here-say. I would be more then willing to read any qualified links or qualified supporting documentation you would like to present.
 
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first of all Obama is alive and well and running for president
Saddam is dead

oh ****, you said Osama
nevermind
 
The war against the terrorists who caused the attacks of 9/11 had a twist in the middle of the action.

It is known that president Bush is a very good friend of the father of Osama Bin Laden, and it is hard to think that president Bush will order to catch and kill the son of his best friend in the Middle East.

Why am I not surprised that everyone on this group just swallows this shiite hook line and sinker. Bush was 21 when Bin Ladens Father died and he had never as much as spoke to the man let alone even been in his presence. The simpletons believe because they SOOOO desparately want to believe.
 
Why am I not surprised that everyone on this group just swallows this shiite hook line and sinker. Bush was 21 when Bin Ladens Father died and he had never as much as spoke to the man let alone even been in his presence. The simpletons believe because they SOOOO desparately want to believe.

There's that "everyone" claim again.

Why do you claim "everyone on this group" believes what was written and then personally attack them as simpletons? Perhaps you should debate the op or the individual responder rather then erroneously attack "everyone on this group" so haphazardly.
 
This current administration's brainwashing really works! :shock:

Yes, :shock: that's EXACTLY it...

Except for the fact that I don't agree with the strategy, I'm just explaining what its been stated and theorized to be. So, how that's brainwashing is beyond me...

OHHH

wait

is it brainwashing because you think its actually some kind of big elaborate conspiracy and that the belief that's the strategy is a lie? Riiight, then I must be brainwashed. Crazy me, using logic, reason, and the simplest possible answer instead of giant elaborate conspiracies that have so many holes in reasoning that its funny...I'm so brainwashed.
 
Yes, :shock: that's EXACTLY it...

Except for the fact that I don't agree with the strategy, I'm just explaining what its been stated and theorized to be. So, how that's brainwashing is beyond me...

OHHH

wait

is it brainwashing because you think its actually some kind of big elaborate conspiracy and that the belief that's the strategy is a lie? Riiight, then I must be brainwashed. Crazy me, using logic, reason, and the simplest possible answer instead of giant elaborate conspiracies that have so many holes in reasoning that its funny...I'm so brainwashed.

Only someone who is brainwashed would believe that they weren't brainwashed. :2razz:
 
We were in Afghanistan fighting the real terrorists in their head quarters, and in one moment the war was deviated.
Why?

Because this was what was planned from the beginning, NOT in one moment.

September 14, 2001
A Defense Department paper for a Camp David meeting with top Bush administration officials to take place the next day (see September 15, 2001) specifies three priority targets for initial action in response to the 9/11 attacks: al-Qaeda, the Taliban, and Iraq. It argues that of the three, al-Qaeda and Iraq pose a strategic threat to the US. Iraq’s alleged long-standing involvement in terrorism is cited, along with its interest in WMDs.

September 15th 2001, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz advocated an invasion of Iraq. CIA and Powell advocated for an Invasion of Afghanistan first. Sept 17, 2001 Bush decided on Afghanistan first.

Wolfowitz will later recall in an interview with Vanity Fair: “On the surface of the debate it at least appeared to be about not whether but when. There seemed to be a kind of agreement that yes it should be, but the disagreement was whether it should be in the immediate response or whether you should concentrate simply on Afghanistan first.

Context of 'September 14, 2003-September 17, 2003: Cheney Links Iraq to 9/11; Bush, Rumsfeld, and Rice All Disavow Cheney’s Claim'
 
Yes, :shock: that's EXACTLY it...

Except for the fact that I don't agree with the strategy, I'm just explaining what its been stated and theorized to be. So, how that's brainwashing is beyond me...

OHHH

wait

is it brainwashing because you think its actually some kind of big elaborate conspiracy and that the belief that's the strategy is a lie? Riiight, then I must be brainwashed. Crazy me, using logic, reason, and the simplest possible answer instead of giant elaborate conspiracies that have so many holes in reasoning that its funny...I'm so brainwashed.

Well, if this administration's intention was to start democracy and freedom in the Middle East, the best beginning was with asking Saudi Arabia to have elections and start a new constitution.

Why Saudi Arabia? Because as a countyry friend of US, Saudi Arabia should be the example of the friendly relationship between arabians with americans, or with the West culture.

No bombs, no killing of innocents by tens of thousands, but a friendly change of political power in a country of the Middle East.

Why not starting in Kuwait?

The brainwashing made in people to think of a changing of Iraq into a democratic and free country is the common worm inserted by a hoock which makes lots of people to be catched in the trick.

Why Us had to use such bloody strategy when the changes in the Middle East should start with a country friend of US?

Come on, one doesn't have to be that blind or stupid to swallow such idea that the intentions of the current administration was'nt other than starting democracy and freedom in the Middle East.

If Bush is telling the truth, why he didn't even ask to the kings of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait to make elections in their countries and start a process of democracy in their countries?

Where is your capacity to think, people? :roll:
 
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Because this was what was planned from the beginning, NOT in one moment.

September 14, 2001
A Defense Department paper for a Camp David meeting with top Bush administration officials to take place the next day (see September 15, 2001) specifies three priority targets for initial action in response to the 9/11 attacks: al-Qaeda, the Taliban, and Iraq. It argues that of the three, al-Qaeda and Iraq pose a strategic threat to the US. Iraq’s alleged long-standing involvement in terrorism is cited, along with its interest in WMDs.

September 15th 2001, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz advocated an invasion of Iraq. CIA and Powell advocated for an Invasion of Afghanistan first. Sept 17, 2001 Bush decided on Afghanistan first.

Wolfowitz will later recall in an interview with Vanity Fair: “On the surface of the debate it at least appeared to be about not whether but when. There seemed to be a kind of agreement that yes it should be, but the disagreement was whether it should be in the immediate response or whether you should concentrate simply on Afghanistan first.

Context of 'September 14, 2003-September 17, 2003: Cheney Links Iraq to 9/11; Bush, Rumsfeld, and Rice All Disavow Cheney’s Claim'


"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

Of course it wasn't, because this administration has never been interested to capture Osama.

Iraq was a target of this administration as soon president Bush took power, this is to say, even before the attacks of 9/11.

Iraq had nothing to do with the terrorist attacks, and neither caused any danger to US but by affecting the economic interests of US by opting to change the use of dollars by euros and by making deals with other countries to exploit its oil.

The current US administration used the force to stop those deals; and weapons of mass destruction, freedom and democracy are the masquerade only. The amazing thing is that everybody around the world know about these facts but the people in US. :shock:
 
The amazing thing is that everybody around the world know about these facts but the people in US. :shock:

These so called "facts" are made up propaganda. Your views are the result of an absence of facts, the voids filled with imagination. But feel free to cite ANY source for your claims regarding Bin Laden being captured and released or this close relationship you allege between Bush and a man that has been dead for 40 years. Should be good for a laugh.
 
Well, if this administration's intention was to start democracy and freedom in the Middle East, the best beginning was with asking Saudi Arabia to have elections and start a new constitution.[

Why Saudi Arabia? Because as a countyry friend of US, Saudi Arabia should be the example of the friendly relationship between arabians with americans, or with the West culture.

Exactly. Why start aggitating an Ally you already have instead of setting up a NEW ally. Am I saying its the right strategy? No, what I am saying is it makes sense unless you're so fully and completely rabidly hateful of the Bush Administration that you blind yourself from being able to look at things objectively.

No bombs, no killing of innocents by tens of thousands, but a friendly change of political power in a country of the Middle East.

All wonderful, pretty, and idealistic. Doesn't mean its the only logical way.

Why not starting in Kuwait?

Once again, see above. Instead of focusing on friendlies that are going to be allies with us for a good long time, even after Bush would be out of office, lets try and get a state that isn't in no way on friendly terms with us as an Ally prior to leaving office, so that even if the next guy doesn't agree with our doctrine we've at least established one more ally in the region.

Once again, I don't agree with it...that doesn't mean I'm so blinded with rage and hatred that i can't look at it objectively and see how one could come to this thought process.


The brainwashing made in people to think of a changing of Iraq into a democratic and free country is the common worm inserted by a hoock which makes lots of people to be catched in the trick.

I only see one person exhibiting any sort of "washed" thinking in this thread.

Why Us had to use such bloody strategy when the changes in the Middle East should start with a country friend of US?

See above. Is your option a way they could've gone with that strategy? Yes. Was it the only logical way? No.

Come on, one doesn't have to be that blind or stupid to swallow such idea that the intentions of the current administration was'nt other than starting democracy and freedom in the Middle East.

See above comment on only seeing one person in this thread exhibiting characteristics you describe...replaced "washed" with your insulting comments from this quote.

If Bush is telling the truth, why he didn't even ask to the kings of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait to make elections in their countries and start a process of democracy in their countries?

Where is your capacity to think, people? :roll:

Because they're already allies and thus there's no reason to be mucking around with them as of yet.

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

Of course it wasn't, because this administration has never been interested to capture Osama.

Assumption, not fact.

Iraq was a target of this administration as soon president Bush took power, this is to say, even before the attacks of 9/11.

Assumption, not fact.

Iraq had nothing to do with the terrorist attacks, and neither caused any danger to US but by affecting the economic interests of US by opting to change the use of dollars by euros and by making deals with other countries to exploit its oil.

All well and good; none of that discounts that they technically fit the bill for the description of an enemy under the purpose stated in the War on Terror.

The current US administration used the force to stop those deals; and weapons of mass destruction, freedom and democracy are the masquerade only.

Assumption, not fact.

The amazing thing is that everybody around the world know about these facts but the people in US. :shock:

Funny, you're talking about "facts" but all I see are assumptions. I have a site for you...

Dictionary.com

You may want to use it and get your meanings of words down before slinging insults at anyone that disagrees with you
 
If Bush is telling the truth, why he didn't even ask to the kings of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait to make elections in their countries and start a process of democracy in their countries?

Where is your capacity to think, people? :roll:


He did. The fact that you are unaware of this doesnt change reality. Most of your views seem to be based upon a lack of facts and an abundance of imagination.
 
These so called "facts" are made up propaganda. Your views are the result of an absence of facts, the voids filled with imagination. But feel free to cite ANY source for your claims regarding Bin Laden being captured and released or this close relationship you allege between Bush and a man that has been dead for 40 years. Should be good for a laugh.

Wake up man, the rest of the world is not paying a single dime for the restructure of Iraq, why? Because everybody knows that this is the mess created by the current Bush administratiion.

Only fools are proud to see their tax money wasted in a dumb war -this is already the second Vietnam- and are happy to see their tax money being misused by going to the hands of companies who have the luxury to pay TV adds and say that there is something "patriotic" fighting in Iraq. :lol:

I have no idea of what are you laughing about...no idea at all...
 
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