What do you believe to be true, or not true

[anatta]

It's pleasant to find here one who is able speak knowingly of Buddhist philosophy. Thank you, and I agree with all of the above my friend.

our own little sangha..lol.. and to you as well

 

[phoenix2020]

his thread is NOT about Biden, or Trump, or the Left or the Right. Evaluate the following statements on their own merit. Do you agree or disagree with the statements made, and please state why. If you want you can even rate each statement from 1 to 10, 10 being the most truthful in YOUR opinion.

1. We are all born the same

6 - we have more in common than we think.

2. Our development is dictated by our environment

3 - true but only to a degree

3. Everyone has their own version of what is "right"

3 - "right" is a social construct but most people tend to borrow somebody else's definition of it rather than formulating their own.

4. Most people couldn't care less

1 - nearly everybody could find a way to care less.

5. As a species, we are improving

5 - I'm on the fence here. Prior the last millennium I think this was true from a natural selection perspective. In more recent times we are approaching a place where natural selection becomes irrelevant; if humanity can use gene therapy to solve a problem then it doesn't need natural selection. Cue artificial genetic augmentation, cybernetics, AI... and you can see where it's unclear what our "species" looks like in 1,000 years.

6. We believe what we "want" to believe

5 - As above, many people believe what some book or person told them to believe.

7. We can't change other people, we can only change ourselves

1 - We can user nuclear weapons to atomize millions of people in an instant. Hell yeah we can change people.

8. Humans tend to live in "tribes" excluding those not in their tribe

3 - while true on the surface, humans tend to live in many tribes that have over-lapping, intersecting memberships.

9. Religion is in fact opium for the masses

3 - nah, it's just a belief system, one of dozens, that can be used in a good way or a bad way.

10. Most humans regret the choices they made when the end arrives

? - I have no idea. I think it depends on how the end arrives. In the aforementioned nuclear detonation example, I'm guessing the vaporized humans wouldn't have any time to reflect on their choices.

I posted this in philosophy because it is YOUR philosophy that likely will dictate which statements you argee with or not agree with.

And yes, I realize, each statement needs more "nuance", but that is where YOU come in, to provide the nuance that reflects your answers. Enjoy.

I was hoping for an 11th question related to a person's attitude toward Canadians.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

I was hoping for an 11th question related to a person's attitude toward Canadians.

I didn't want to go there for fear of derailing this thread

We can user nuclear weapons to atomize millions of people in an instant. Hell yeah we can change people.

Not exactly what I had in mind when I said "change" people.

 

[quip]

.
1. We are all born the same

No. We're all born with different personalities, struggles and talents.

2. Our development is dictated by our environment

It's very influential, though not 100%

3. Everyone has their own version of what is "right"

Nope. Societal agreed upon rules.

4. Most people couldn't care less

It sometimes feels as such then somebody comes along and makes you question your apathy.

5. As a species, we are improving

Yes I believe we are....with a long way to go.

6. We believe what we "want" to believe

Sometimes. It's obvious to see in others but hard to identify it within myself. I try to be objective as much as possible. At least that's what I "want" to believe.

7. We can't change other people, we can only change ourselves

Well I've seen changes in myself that I couldn't have made without others. It's a collective effort.

8. Humans tend to live in "tribes" excluding those not in their tribe

Tribalism seems a intuitive thing. Perhaps, per question #5 we're evolving away from this.

9. Religion is in fact opium for the masses

It seems to satiate many people. I'm not clear why. Re: #6

10. Most humans regret the choices they made when the end arrives

It is what it is.....because of the path you've taken. Suck it up.


Most important one, #5. We're forced to move forward, so why not improve (as individuals and collectively) along the way?

 

[DrewPaul]

his thread is NOT about Biden, or Trump, or the Left or the Right. Evaluate the following statements on their own merit. Do you agree or disagree with the statements made, and please state why. If you want you can even rate each statement from 1 to 10, 10 being the most truthful in YOUR opinion.

1. We are all born the same

2. Our development is dictated by our environment

3. Everyone has their own version of what is "right"

4. Most people couldn't care less

5. As a species, we are improving

6. We believe what we "want" to believe

7. We can't change other people, we can only change ourselves

8. Humans tend to live in "tribes" excluding those not in their tribe

9. Religion is in fact opium for the masses

10. Most humans regret the choices they made when the end arrives

I posted this in philosophy because it is YOUR philosophy that likely will dictate which statements you argee with or not agree with.

And yes, I realize, each statement needs more "nuance", but that is where YOU come in, to provide the nuance that reflects your answers. Enjoy.

1. No
2. Unquestionably
3. Too many people share the same ideas of what is right. No.
4. About what?
5. Declining
6. No. Rational people believe what the preponderance of evidence lies.
7. False. Sometimes we change other people by changing ourselves.
8. True
9. False. Religious people are often in the trenches helping people in the worst situations. Drugs and alcohol are the opiate of the people.
10. Don't know the percentage. Some do, some don't.

 

[noonereal]

1. We are all born the same

**** no.

2. Our development is dictated by our environment

It's more nature than nurture. By a lot.

3. Everyone has their own version of what is "right"

Yes

4. Most people couldn't care less

This is without context so it can't be answered.

5. As a species, we are improving

No. We are reaping the benefits of socializing through bigger and bigger groups which has forced on us behavioral changes.

6. We believe what we "want" to believe

Yes, this is fact. We are hard wired to so do.

7. We can't change other people, we can only change ourselves

Good luck changing yourself.

8. Humans tend to live in "tribes" excluding those not in their tribe

Duh

9. Religion is in fact opium for the masses

it's not so simple but yes

10. Most humans regret the choices they made when the end arrives

I doubt it.

 

[noonereal]

Perhaps, per question #5 we're evolving away from this.

In fact, the opposite is true.

Our tribes are becoming bigger as it benefits us most. Think of countries as tribes.

 

[justoneman]

So you DON'T believe everyone has their own version of what is "right?"

Is it universally wrong to kill your mother and eat her?

 

[quip]

In fact, the opposite is true.

Our tribes are becoming bigger as it benefits us most. Think of countries as tribes.

Ok, if that's your opinion.

I believe, via technology, the world is getting smaller and we'll eventually knock some of those tribal barriers down.

 

[noonereal]

Ok, if that's your opinion.

I believe, via technology, the world is getting smaller and we'll eventually knock some of those tribal barriers down.

Did you understand me? I think not.

 

[noonereal]

It's pleasant to find here one who is able speak knowingly of Buddhist philosophy. Thank you, and I agree with all of the above my friend.

I have no ability to relax, chant and breath deep.

In fact, relaxing is about the most awful thing I can think of being forced to do.

 

[quip]

Did you understand me? I think not.

Why do you say that? Explain.

Our opinions just seem to differ.

 

[nvflash]

his thread is NOT about Biden, or Trump, or the Left or the Right. Evaluate the following statements on their own merit. Do you agree or disagree with the statements made, and please state why. If you want you can even rate each statement from 1 to 10, 10 being the most truthful in YOUR opinion.

1. We are all born the same

2. Our development is dictated by our environment

3. Everyone has their own version of what is "right"

4. Most people couldn't care less

5. As a species, we are improving

6. We believe what we "want" to believe

7. We can't change other people, we can only change ourselves

8. Humans tend to live in "tribes" excluding those not in their tribe

9. Religion is in fact opium for the masses

10. Most humans regret the choices they made when the end arrives

I posted this in philosophy because it is YOUR philosophy that likely will dictate which statements you argee with or not agree with.

And yes, I realize, each statement needs more "nuance", but that is where YOU come in, to provide the nuance that reflects your answers. Enjoy.

I think you are over simplifying it, and it looks like a bunch of first world problems.

Most of the people in the world are just trying to keep shelter over their heads and food on the table from day to day.

If they had it as good as we do they'd be laughing their ass off at us for all the bitching we do.

God has blessed us, for whatever reason, our Western World Alliance that materialized after the end of the 2nd WW, so let's just get to figuring out how we can get all these other people to the point we are, bitching about trivial shit.

 

[Loulit01]

his thread is NOT about Biden, or Trump, or the Left or the Right. Evaluate the following statements on their own merit. Do you agree or disagree with the statements made, and please state why. If you want you can even rate each statement from 1 to 10, 10 being the most truthful in YOUR opinion.

1. We are all born the same

You people are all born the same. I'm gifted.

2. Our development is dictated by our environment

Nature/nurture, it's a mix.

3. Everyone has their own version of what is "right"

I hope so.

4. Most people couldn't care less

Most people care about the wrong things.

5. As a species, we are improving

As a species, we're our own worst enemy.

6. We believe what we "want" to believe

Right up until we can't.

7. We can't change other people, we can only change ourselves

I don't need to change. Y'all got problems.

8. Humans tend to live in "tribes" excluding those not in their tribe

Humans tend to live in societies. We each live in our own.

9. Religion is in fact opium for the masses

Religion is something humans don't handle well. Too many extremists of all faiths.

10. Most humans regret the choices they made when the end arrives

We regret the things we didn't do.

I posted this in philosophy because it is YOUR philosophy that likely will dictate which statements you argee with or not agree with.

And yes, I realize, each statement needs more "nuance", but that is where YOU come in, to provide the nuance that reflects your answers. Enjoy.

 

[Mircea]

1. We are all born the same

That is false. Many are born missing limbs, missing organs (some are born without brains literally) lack of vision or hearing, and other maladies.

If your intent was that "we are all born the same" meaning we all have certain unalienable rights, then that would be 100% true.

2. Our development is dictated by our environment

Also vague and ambiguous.

We are all born with certain skill-sets.

All surgeons are doctors but not all doctors are surgeons and they can never be a surgeon and it doesn't matter how many $Millions you spend training them or how many classes they take or Useless Tube videos they watch or self-help books they read or self-help groups they attend it will never happen and "never" means at no time ever.

And then you have the stupid people who think we should have more medical teaching facilities.

Only a small percentage of any population has the doctor skill-set and an even smaller percentage have the surgeon skill-set so how many do you think also possess the teaching skill-set?

Creating more medical teaching colleges creates lots of vacancies which can only be filled by paying higher salaries which will drive up the cost of medical care and leave other medical teaching facilities scrambling to fill vacancies and that means paying higher salaries to keep people from jumping ship.

Just because a doctor or surgeon or anyone has the teaching skill-set, there is no concomitant obligation to perform it.

Skill-sets are genetic. You want me to work in the trades? Not gonna happen. I don't have what it takes to be a carpenter, or plumber, pipe-fitter, electrician, welder, or mason. I'm an excellent guitar player but I'll never be a great one because I lack the improvisation skill-set which is why I can't write music or lyrics. I can copy people to a "T" and that's good enough for me.

The role of the education system is to identify those skill-sets children have and develop them, but our education system is a dismal failure.

And then we have the role of parents in the environment. Dope smoking beer swilling parents don't take time to read to their children or give them the proper toys to develop motor coordination, eye-hand coordination, and thinking skills. Then you have the mothers with the revolving door on their HUD Section 8 apartments who throw a bag of chips and 2 liter bottle of Mountain Dew at their 3 year old because they're too busy banging away.

Once the brain goes through its hard-wiring around age 5, it's over. You can't undo the damage and those kids are behind the 8-ball and by the time of the second hard-wiring during puberty, it's all over but the fat lady singing.

3. Everyone has their own version of what is "right"

Not necessarily true. Some people actually are right. With respect to morality, it doesn't really matter since morality is absolute.

4. Most people couldn't care less

That's true.

Only about 3% of the population are good people.

They will always do the right thing regardless of the costs whether that's losing their job, or losing their family and friends or community standing, or suffering financial losses or whatever.

About 15% of the population are basically good people. They will do the right thing but only if it costs them nothing. So they'll turn a blind eye to the racial discrimination or sexual harassment in the work-place or they'll sit quietly on the bus/train/subway while someone demeans and debases another because they're afraid.

About 60% of people are not good people. It isn't that they're bad people it's that they will only do the right thing if they are rewarded in some way and the reward need not be monetary. It can be a 30 second sound-bite on TV.

Roughly 12% are basically bad people. Some are opportunists and will prey on others and some are thrill-seekers or seeking approval but they will always do the wrong thing.

Then you have the 10% who are sheer evil and will kill you just because they saw two birds in a tree.

So, yeah, 82% of people do nothing or worse make a mess for everyone else to clean up.

5. As a species, we are improving

Well, we do have the longer lasting light bulb and 24-hour convenience stores.

 

[Loulit01]

That is false. Many are born missing limbs, missing organs (some are born without brains literally) lack of vision or hearing, and other maladies.

If your intent was that "we are all born the same" meaning we all have certain unalienable rights, then that would be 100% true.

Also vague and ambiguous.

We are all born with certain skill-sets.

All surgeons are doctors but not all doctors are surgeons and they can never be a surgeon and it doesn't matter how many $Millions you spend training them or how many classes they take or Useless Tube videos they watch or self-help books they read or self-help groups they attend it will never happen and "never" means at no time ever.

And then you have the stupid people who think we should have more medical teaching facilities.

Only a small percentage of any population has the doctor skill-set and an even smaller percentage have the surgeon skill-set so how many do you think also possess the teaching skill-set?

Creating more medical teaching colleges creates lots of vacancies which can only be filled by paying higher salaries which will drive up the cost of medical care and leave other medical teaching facilities scrambling to fill vacancies and that means paying higher salaries to keep people from jumping ship.

Just because a doctor or surgeon or anyone has the teaching skill-set, there is no concomitant obligation to perform it.

Skill-sets are genetic. You want me to work in the trades? Not gonna happen. I don't have what it takes to be a carpenter, or plumber, pipe-fitter, electrician, welder, or mason. I'm an excellent guitar player but I'll never be a great one because I lack the improvisation skill-set which is why I can't write music or lyrics. I can copy people to a "T" and that's good enough for me.

The role of the education system is to identify those skill-sets children have and develop them, but our education system is a dismal failure.

And then we have the role of parents in the environment. Dope smoking beer swilling parents don't take time to read to their children or give them the proper toys to develop motor coordination, eye-hand coordination, and thinking skills. Then you have the mothers with the revolving door on their HUD Section 8 apartments who throw a bag of chips and 2 liter bottle of Mountain Dew at their 3 year old because they're too busy banging away.

Once the brain goes through its hard-wiring around age 5, it's over. You can't undo the damage and those kids are behind the 8-ball and by the time of the second hard-wiring during puberty, it's all over but the fat lady singing.


Not necessarily true. Some people actually are right. With respect to morality, it doesn't really matter since morality is absolute.

That's true.

Only about 3% of the population are good people.

They will always do the right thing regardless of the costs whether that's losing their job, or losing their family and friends or community standing, or suffering financial losses or whatever.

About 15% of the population are basically good people. They will do the right thing but only if it costs them nothing. So they'll turn a blind eye to the racial discrimination or sexual harassment in the work-place or they'll sit quietly on the bus/train/subway while someone demeans and debases another because they're afraid.

About 60% of people are not good people. It isn't that they're bad people it's that they will only do the right thing if they are rewarded in some way and the reward need not be monetary. It can be a 30 second sound-bite on TV.

Roughly 12% are basically bad people. Some are opportunists and will prey on others and some are thrill-seekers or seeking approval but they will always do the wrong thing.

Then you have the 10% who are sheer evil and will kill you just because they saw two birds in a tree.

So, yeah, 82% of people do nothing or worse make a mess for everyone else to clean up.


Well, we do have the longer lasting light bulb and 24-hour convenience stores.

I thought this was a serious post but then you said morality is absolute.

 

[Mircea]

6. We believe what we "want" to believe

That's true for the majority of people, like 82% of the people.

People don't like to get out of their comfort zone.

7. We can't change other people, we can only change ourselves

That's 100% true. Too bad the control freaks don't understand that.

8. Humans tend to live in "tribes" excluding those not in their tribe

That's been the way of the world for a little over 1 Million years.

If it's any consolation, assuming the human race survives as long, if you came back in about 46,000 years, there'd only be one race/ethnic group (everyone will be mixed race), one language, one currency, one government, and no religion.

9. Religion is in fact opium for the masses

Marx was wrong about a great many things.

Having said that, his view of history is spot on. I'm a Constructivist and our brothers and sisters, the Radicals, believe Marx was right and because we do and we understand, that is why 100% of foreign policy predictions are right.

The Conservatives, Liberals, Neo-Liberals, Neo-Liberal Institutionalists, and Neo-Conservatives (who are Left Wing not Right Wing) always get it wrong.

We predicted the failure of Afghanistan as a State and we correctly stated why it would fail and it failed for the exact same reason the monarchy installed by the Brits failed and the constitutional monarchy failed, and every government since then failed including the one established by the US.

You have a tragedy of lost lives and wastefulness and you can thank the Conservatives, Liberals, Neo-Liberals, Neo-Liberal Institutionalists, and Neo-Conservatives (who are Left Wing not Right Wing) for that.

Religion was the other thing Marx was right about.

The amusing thing about religious people is that 100% of them have no idea what they're talking about.

The good news is history proves that once a government stops supporting any religion, that religion dies.

Yeah, that's right. The only reason religion continues to exist is because of government support.

10. Most humans regret the choices they made when the end arrives

Generally, I have never known that to be true and I know a lot of dead people.

If there are any regrets, it is typically regretting not doing more for themselves.

 

[Str8shooter]

his thread is NOT about Biden, or Trump, or the Left or the Right. Evaluate the following statements on their own merit. Do you agree or disagree with the statements made, and please state why. If you want you can even rate each statement from 1 to 10, 10 being the most truthful in YOUR opinion.

1. We are all born the same

Yes but not with the same opportunities at birth. Still, a person has the ability to decide their own fate.

2. Our development is dictated by our environment

I disagree. One can overcome their environment if it is negative and one can fail even after being raised in a privileged environment.

3. Everyone has their own version of what is "right"

I agree. Still, I believe that we all have the ability to discern our flawed reasoning for what we believe.

4. Most people couldn't care less

I disagree. I believe in the brotherhood of man. I believe that most people will do the right thing and do care. Look at what our society does when disaster strikes.

5. As a species, we are improving

I disagree. We are imperfect and not advancing in so many ways.

6. We believe what we "want" to believe

Sure.

7. We can't change other people, we can only change ourselves

I believe we can change other people because other people have helped me change. BTW, I like the Montgomery Gentry Song,

8. Humans tend to live in "tribes" excluding those not in their tribe

I think that people tend to run in "tribes." I don't know about the exclusion. I seem to have friends who are so diverse.

9. Religion is in fact opium for the masses

I don't know about that. For me, my Faith and belief in religion is my business. I don't think about it in terms of "the masses."

10. Most humans regret the choices they made when the end arrives

When I die, I will not have any regrets. My dad once asked only one thing from me. He wanted me to live a good and honorable life. I have done so. I honor my mother and father who are no longer with us. I am a good husband and dad. I keep my word. I am loyal to my friends even when they are not loyal to me. My wife and I are blessed financially. We make sure to give to others and support St. Judes. We give to our community food bank and we adopt multiple families for Christmas. I know that I am flawed. I do not promise to fix those flaws. Instead, accept that I am human and will "do better the next time." I do not regret one moment of my life.

I posted this in philosophy because it is YOUR philosophy that likely will dictate which statements you argee with or not agree with.

And yes, I realize, each statement needs more "nuance", but that is where YOU come in, to provide the nuance that reflects your answers. Enjoy.

 

[Sweden]

I thought this was a serious post but then you said morality is absolute.

Yes.

Morality is only absolute at the individual level. People believe that what they personally believe to be moral IS moral.

'Morality' changes over space and time. Example: Japanese ideas of morality in say 1943 were shared by virtually no one else. Their estimation of what is 'moral' in 2023 are quite different. Less extreme examples can be drawn form every other society over similar time spans.

 

[Mircea]

I thought this was a serious post but then you said morality is absolute.

It is.

For example, slavery was always wrong. The fact that some people (and even some god-things) refused to admit it was wrong does not alter the fact that it was always wrong.

I can certainly see why self-serving people would break their arms trying to pat themselves on the back for mustering up the courage to recognize truth.

 

[Sweden]

It is.

For example, slavery was always wrong. The fact that some people (and even some god-things) refused to admit it was wrong does not alter the fact that it was always wrong.

I can certainly see why self-serving people would break their arms trying to pat themselves on the back for mustering up the courage to recognize truth.

We, in the here and now, all agree with you. But I think a Roman from around two thousand years ago would argue the contrary with great conviction.

 

[Loulit01]

It is.

For example, slavery was always wrong. The fact that some people (and even some god-things) refused to admit it was wrong does not alter the fact that it was always wrong.

I can certainly see why self-serving people would break their arms trying to pat themselves on the back for mustering up the courage to recognize truth.

Morality is a blend of moral relativism and moral objectivism'

 

[Sweden]

Morality is a blend of moral relativism and moral objectivism'

And morality is subjective as well as constantly changing over time and space.

 

[Mircea]

We, in the here and now, all agree with you. But I think a Roman from around two thousand years ago would argue the contrary with great conviction.

Oh, yeah? And where is the Roman Empire now?

Well, it's in a box over yon.

Maybe if the Romans had a free and educated society, they'd still be around.

 

[Mircea]

Morality is a blend of moral relativism and moral objectivism'

No, it's human behavior that is relativistic, not morals.