What country is biggest threat to peace?

[Allan]

I'll bet you a case of Dominion ale that Canada will be just fine in 2028.

I'll bet you a case of CC that America and Trump will still look stupid in 2028.

 

[Port & Starboard]

I'll bet you a case of CC that America and Trump will still look stupid in 2028.

From my experience................Looking stupid isn't exactly a threat now is it?

 

[Common Sense 1]

China

 

[Tigerace117]

1. China is a economic and intellectual property threat worldwide. A regional physical threat in regards to Taiwan.

2. Iran is a direct threat to western civilization and its Arab neighbors.

3. North Korea can't attack anyone without China's approval.

4. Ukraine has proven Russia to be a 2nd rate military. Russia still fights with its face, and relies on sheer numbers of troops over competency. A US Marine Corporal can lead troops better than their officer corps. Outside of nukes.....Russia is done for now.

5. The US isn't invading anyone because the Congress isn't going to allow Trump a useless war on Panama, Canada, or Denmark. That is just Debate Politics liberal lunacy.

The idea that Iran is a “threat to Western civilization” is laughable. They’d certainly leave a steady stream of burning Abrams tanks and shot down “invincible” American made aircraft if they ever went up directly against against the Saudi military, but they lack the power to destroy “civilization”.

The US Marines’ sure proved that claim of yours to be wrong over...and over...and over again in places like Iraq

The idea that Congress would actually prevent the President from bombing whatever countries he wants is not supported by anything in the last fifty plus years.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

1. China is a economic and intellectual property threat worldwide. A regional physical threat in regards to Taiwan.

2. Iran is a direct threat to western civilization and its Arab neighbors.

3. North Korea can't attack anyone without China's approval.

4. Ukraine has proven Russia to be a 2nd rate military. Russia still fights with its face, and relies on sheer numbers of troops over competency. A US Marine Corporal can lead troops better than their officer corps. Outside of nukes.....Russia is done for now.

5. The US isn't invading anyone because the Congress isn't going to allow Trump a useless war on Panama, Canada, or Denmark. That is just Debate Politics liberal lunacy.

Congress is useless right now and you know it

 

[Hamish Howl]

Russia, with the USA a half length behind.

 

[ajn678]

Russia and Israel.

 

[Gatsby]

Simple question - which country is currently the greatest threat to the western world?

Definitely China. It's the only country that might be able to defeat the United States in a head-to-head war.

Russia. It is not even close.

Russia is a pissant shithole with a smaller economy than Italy and fewer people than Bangladesh.

 

[Surrealistik]

Simple question - which country is currently the greatest threat to the western world?

Until Trump and Elon manage to turn the USA full fascist which seems to be increasingly likely given their recent maneuverings with respect to replacing civil servants and subverting agency networks and IT systems wholesale, it's still China, easily; same as it's ever been for at least the past couple of decades.

 

[SayMyName]

Simple question - which country is currently the greatest threat to the western world?

The USA. Until those agencies that fly under the guise of "national security" and the corporations which support them are brought under control and accountabilty, chaos, assassinations, and government overthrows will continue, regardless of who is in the White House.

 

[Surrealistik]

Russia. It is not even close.

Never understood the idea that Russia is a real threat to the West presently, nevermind being far and away the greatest one.

Its technology, including military technology is 2nd if not 3rd rate.

Its economy, even before its present ongoing stagflation meltdown with 25%+ real inflation (that can be verified by price reports; the Russian Central Bank numbers are obviously bogus) and a decidedly unhealthy 21% interest rate was pitiful vis a vis most Western countries nevermind America.

Its army has been largely dashed to pieces against the Ukraine wall, which, despite Russia's massive numerical, artillery and economic advantages, has outperformed its opponent and held out with 2nd and 3rd rate Western hand-me-downs (that still remain technologically superior to their Russian counterparts in a majority of cases), much to the latter's great embarrassment. If Russia struggles this much against such a relatively anemic opponent, it would stand exactly zero chance against the full and awesome might of the whole of NATO that has only gotten larger and more powerful since Putin's idiotic incursion.

If and when the Russian economy collapses, overstressed as it is from this war (which I put inside roughly 2 years assuming nothing major changes), outside of perhaps errant nukes, it won't be a concern to the West for at least a generation.

 

[JohnRawls]

Russia < - Active war
China < - Already took Hong Kong fully against all agreements and threatened Taiwan for decades and getting there more and more,
Iran < - Actively supports proxies all over the middle east to attack others, attacks trade routes....
North Korea < - I mean I guess they can be under the US simply because they only talk but they have been talking about war for decades way more than Trump
USA < - Orange Man go Brrrr?

I mean, is this even under debate?

 

[Allan]

Until Trump and Elon manage to turn the USA full fascist which seems to be increasingly likely given their recent maneuverings with respect to replacing civil servants and subverting agency networks and IT systems wholesale, it's still China, easily; same as it's ever been for at least the past couple of decades.

So the 51st state stuff, threatening Panama and Denmark and the plan for ethnic cleansing in Gaza isn't fascist enough?

 

[Surrealistik]

So the 51st state stuff, threatening Panama and Denmark and the plan for ethnic cleansing in Gaza isn't fascist enough?

No, because, possibly excepting ethnically cleansing Gaza which was frankly more likely than not regardless of admin (Trump would of course be a catalyst), it's bluster, and it will remain so until Trump gets a reliable Constitution destroying supermajority in the House and Senate (good luck with that after these past couple of weeks), and Gaza isn't the West, strategically or economically critical to the West, or even West adjacent.

 

[Dans La Lune]

I will agree to look stupid if Canada is still untouched when Trump leaves office.

The damage is already done. The world is strategizing on how to move away from America, and it should.

 

[JohnRawls]

So the 51st state stuff, threatening Panama and Denmark and the plan for ethnic cleansing in Gaza isn't fascist enough?

You just experienced it for the first time, now imagine people living with borders with Russia or China who are used to this all the time every time. Now imagine that those threats are not only rhetoric but actual action as with Russia or China or Iran....

So from this perspective, Trump going "Brrrr" for a bit is barely anything compared to Iran/China/Russia.

 

[OrphanSlug]

I had to vote Russia.

No matter the reasoning, or history of how we got here, at this point today Russia is the biggest threat to peace. Between their current invasion of Ukraine, other involvements in other nations to varying degrees of conflict, and whom they support there is no bigger destabilizer on the planet today.

For what it is worth, the US is a close 2nd and China making that 2nd place a horse race.

 

[Tigerace117]

Never understood the idea that Russia is a real threat to the West presently, nevermind being far and away the greatest one.

Its technology, including military technology is 2nd if not 3rd rate.

Its economy, even before its present ongoing stagflation meltdown with 25%+ real inflation (that can be verified by price reports; the Russian Central Bank numbers are obviously bogus) and a decidedly unhealthy 21% interest rate was pitiful vis a vis most Western countries nevermind America.

Its army has been largely dashed to pieces against the Ukraine wall, which, despite Russia's massive numerical, artillery and economic advantages, has outperformed its opponent and held out with 2nd and 3rd rate Western hand-me-downs (that still remain technologically superior to their Russian counterparts in a majority of cases), much to the latter's great embarrassment. If Russia struggles this much against such a relatively anemic opponent, it would stand exactly zero chance against the full and awesome might of the whole of NATO that has only gotten larger and more powerful since Putin's idiotic incursion.

If and when the Russian economy collapses, overstressed as it is from this war (which I put inside roughly 2 years assuming nothing major changes), outside of perhaps errant nukes, it won't be a concern to the West for at least a generation.

Except Ukraine isn’t a “relatively anemic opponent”. Its military spent about being trained by the West prior to the outbreak of all out war, and the West has already sent multiple rounds of supposedly “game changing” equipment without result.

The Russians got at least one Yasen Class submarine right up to the US coast without the U.S. having any idea it was there until it left.

Actually, it’s looking more like the Ukrainians are dashing themselves to bits against the Russians’ defenses, judging by the failures of their attacks to accomplish much of anything of note over the last eight months to a year. The jingoistic posturing of the West can’t change Ukraine’s ever growing problems with morale and desertion.

The “full and awesome might of NATO” failed miserably against foes far weaker than Russia, and likely won’t even exist anymore in a few years.

Yeah, and Hitler thought one kick would bring the whole rotten structure crashing down. How’d that go again?

 

[Tigerace117]

You just experienced it for the first time, now imagine people living with borders with Russia or China who are used to this all the time every time. Now imagine that those threats are not only rhetoric but actual action as with Russia or China or Iran....

So from this perspective, Trump going "Brrrr" for a bit is barely anything compared to Iran/China/Russia.

Uh….the U.S.’ actions in Mexico and the rest of Latin America show it is very, very, very far from “the first time” the U.S. has done this.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Russia.

This country is currently engaged in a brutal WWII style war on the European continent, and its president (Vladimir Putin) is wanted by the International Court of Justice for war crimes.

Entire Ukrainian cities have been leveled, and tens of thousands of Ukrainian children have been kidnapped by the Russian military and shipped to Russia to be adopted by Russian families.

Putin has expressed his desire to reconstitute the Russian Empire. Putin's former Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev has threatened nuclear consequences if anyone interferes with these Kremlin plans.

The Russian military is being assisted by Iran (kamakazee drones), North Korea (soldiers and artillery), and China (electronic components unavailable to Russia due to sanctions).

 

[Tigerace117]

Russia.

This country is currently engaged in a brutal WWII style war on the European continent, and its president (Putin) is wanted by the International Court of Justice for war crimes.

Putin has expressed his desire to reconstitute the Russian Empire.

Is there a reason you think engaging in a “brutal WW2 style war” matters more because it happens “on the European continent”?

America has expressed its desire to attack and conquer at least three separate countries in the last two weeks.

 

[Surrealistik]

Except Ukraine isn’t a “relatively anemic opponent”. Its military spent about being trained by the West prior to the outbreak of all out war, and the West has already sent multiple rounds of supposedly “game changing” equipment without result.

The Russians got at least one Yasen Class submarine right up to the US coast without the U.S. having any idea it was there until it left.

Actually, it’s looking more like the Ukrainians are dashing themselves to bits against the Russians’ defenses, judging by the failures of their attacks to accomplish much of anything of note over the last eight months to a year. The jingoistic posturing of the West can’t change Ukraine’s ever growing problems with morale and desertion.

The “full and awesome might of NATO” failed miserably against foes far weaker than Russia, and likely won’t even exist anymore in a few years.

Yeah, and Hitler thought one kick would bring the whole rotten structure crashing down. How’d that go again?

Ukrainians have basically been doing rope a dope with Russia for the past year or so, with offensive actions restricted to limited counterattacks as Russians wrack up disproportionate confirmed casualties. The result of Western support, of course is a Russian snailkrieg that'll conquer all of Ukraine, at its current averaged pace of advance over the duration of the war, in about 118 years, give or take. If we go by the more recent averaged rate of daily advance for 2024, that would be ~150 years. Meanwhile, as is obvious to the Russian Central Bank and even the most ardent supporters of Putin, Russia's economy is going up in flames in real time, and it surely doesn't have more than a century left in the tank under these conditions.

And yes, aid or not, Ukraine is obviously a relatively anemic opponent compared to say US, China, or NATO whose only advantages versus Russia amount to superior tactics, leverage of drones, and technology through 2nd and 3rd rate, older Western gear; Russia has the edge on virtually all of the rest.

Further the 'full and awesome might of NATO', as in the entirety of the alliance aligned against a common opponent, has never yet been employed in a full scale war. However, if you want to hold to the delusion that Russia in its current, obviously debilitated state would win (not force a de facto draw via MAD) or even provide a serious challenge in a conventional offensive war with standing armies against all of NATO (as we are describing threats to the West) you are very welcome to such a ridiculous delusion; I won't indulge you any further.

The notion that Russia, as is, is even remotely competitive with China for top threat to the West is blatantly and completely absurd.

 

[Tigerace117]

Ukrainians have basically been doing rope a dope with Russia for the past year or so, with offensive actions restricted to limited counterattacks as Russians wrack up disproportionate confirmed casualties. The result of Western support, of course is a Russian snailkrieg that'll conquer all of Ukraine, at its current averaged pace of advance over the duration of the war, in about 118 years, give or take. If we go by the more recent rate of daily advance for 2024, that would be ~150 years. Meanwhile, as is obvious to the Russian Central Bank and even the most ardent supporters of Putin, its economy is going up in flames in real time, and it surely doesn't have more than a century left in the tank.

And yes, aid or not, Ukraine is obviously a relatively anemic opponent compared to say US, China, or NATO whose only advantages versus Russia amount to superior tactics, leverage of drones, and technology through 2nd and 3rd rate, older Western gear; Russia has the edge on virtually all of the rest.

Further the 'full and awesome might of NATO', as in the entirety of the alliance aligned against a common opponent, has never yet been employed in a full scale national war. However, if you want to hold to the delusion that Russia in its current, obviously debilitated state would win (not force a de facto draw via MAD) a conventional offensive war with standing armies against all of NATO (as we are describing threats to the West) you are very welcome to such a ridiculous delusion; I won't indulge you any further.

The notion that Russia is even remotely competitive with China for top threat to the West is blatantly and completely absurd.

The Ukrainians steadily being forced out of one settlement they expended valuable men and resources to hold after another, the loss of most of the handful of villages they occupied in Kursk, and the increasing amounts of desertion— to the point where multiple Ukrainian units have now apparently disintegrated without firing a shot— makes that read an awful lot like spin.

Which assumes the Russians still intend to conquer “all of Ukraine” and not simply secure what they know they can take and worry about the rest at some indefinite future date.

Which, of course, is a rather large assumption given the sheer size of Ukraine makes full occupation a daunting prospect in the first place.

The West has been saying Russian economic collapse is imminent for, like, three years now.

One country compared to twenty something? That’s the comparison you are using?

And frankly, the Ukrainian military is in much better shape than, say, the German one is, so that doesn’t hold up either.

The West still claims its older gear is “the best in the world”, which makes the distinction rather meaningless.

Given that Canada is more likely to be on the receiving end of that “might” than Russia is these days, something quite a few Americans seem totally unbothered by, that hypothetical is rather meaningless as well.

 

[Surrealistik]

The Ukrainians steadily being forced out of one settlement they expended valuable men and resources to hold after another, the loss of most of the handful of villages they occupied in Kursk, and the increasing amounts of desertion— to the point where multiple Ukrainian units have now apparently disintegrated without firing a shot— makes that read an awful lot like spin.

Which assumes the Russians still intend to conquer “all of Ukraine” and not simply secure what they know they can take and worry about the rest at some indefinite future date.

Which, of course, is a rather large assumption given the sheer size of Ukraine makes full occupation a daunting prospect in the first place.

Even if they are only set on conquering the eastern portion of Ukraine it will still take them decades minimally at this rate; this is time their economy simply and obviously will not afford them.

The West has been saying Russian economic collapse is imminent for, like, three years now.

I don't vest talking heads with credibility, I vest metrics with credibility, and the metrics are there with Russian central interest rates at 21% and real inflation per price reports above that as it deficit spends like absolute mad to a central bank admitted backdrop of stagflation and reduced energy outputs.

One country compared to twenty something? That’s the comparison you are using?

And frankly, the Ukrainian military is in much better shape than, say, the German one is, so that doesn’t hold up either.

Because the comparison is necessarily between the UKR weakened Russia of the present versus the collective West and not a solitary Germany in order to gauge the threat posed to it, yes, we are necessarily contemplating how Russia fares versus the whole of NATO's membership.

The West still claims its older gear is “the best in the world”, which makes the distinction rather meaningless.

The difference between latest gen and stuff from decades ago, which describes most of Ukrainian military aid, is obviously substantive. In some cases, the delta will be slight, in most cases, not so.

Given that Canada is more likely to be on the receiving end of that “might” than Russia is these days, something quite a few Americans seem totally unbothered by, that hypothetical is rather meaningless as well.

The notion that Canada will be annexed is laughable; as mentioned, I'll start getting worried when the Republicans achieve Constitution busting supermajorities in the House and Senate.

 

[Tigerace117]

Even if they are only set on conquering the eastern portion of Ukraine it will still take them decades minimally at this rate; this is time their economy simply and obviously will not afford them.


I don't vest talking heads with credibility, but metrics, and the metrics are there with Russian central interest rates at 21% and real inflation per price reports above that.


Because the comparison is necessarily between the UKR weakened Russia of the present versus the collective West and not a solitary Germany in order to gauge the threat posed to it, yes, we are necessarily contemplating how Russia fares versus the whole of NATO's membership.


The difference between latest gen and stuff from decades ago, which describes most of Ukrainian military aid, is obviously substantive. In some cases, the delta will be slight, in most cases, not so.


The notion that Canada will be annexed is laughable; as mentioned, I'll start getting worried when the Republicans achieve Constitution busting supermajorities in the House and Senate.

They’ve already conquered most of the eastern part of Ukraine. If your narrative was true the Ukrainians would not be struggling to keep their troops in the field, and their own attacks would have had much more success than they’ve had for a long while now.

Again, the West has been claiming that for three years now. It’s fully in “believe it when I see it actually happen” category at this point.

I mean, if you actually think the militaries of Croatia or Slovakia would put up a stronger fight than Ukraine, I suppose you are entitled to that belief, but it isn’t really supported by facts. As a collective NATO operates more an an extension of American political will than as a coherent force in itself. Saying one country doesn’t stack up to twenty something nations is a meaningless assertion. The US itself wouldn’t do very well up against the entirety of the Middle East.

Again, the West still claims the equipment they are providing is “game changing” and “the best in the world”.

Something being stupid has never once stopped the US from doing it, especially when it comes to invading other countries.