What can Trump do to change your mind on him?

[worksforpigs]

Yawn. Trump admitted at least twice, on the record, he fired Comey to interfere with/end the Russia probe. That's OOJ.

If you don't know what you're talking about, why bother talking?

Citation needed.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Citation needed.

Why? You have no honest interest in the specifics of this matter.

He stated it on camera to Lester Holt and to the Russians when they were at the White House. Anyone with even a fleeting familiarity with the background of all this would know that.

 

[worksforpigs]

Why? You have no honest interest in the specifics of this matter.

He stated it on camera to Lester Holt and to the Russians when they were at the White House. Anyone with even a fleeting familiarity with the background of all this would know that.

Still waiting for a source. Your speculating that I lack "honest interest" isn't a reason to avoid posting your source. It's a pretext.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Still waiting for a source. Your speculating that I lack "honest interest" isn't a reason to avoid posting your source. It's a pretext.

Yawn. Google too hard for you? My statements stand. It's public record that he did what I said he did when I said he did it.

Based on your posting history that I've seen, you have no honest interest in objective reality or rational discussion of extant facts.

Don't like it? That's just too damned bad.

 

[worksforpigs]

Yawn. Google too hard for you? My statements stand. It's public record that he did what I said he did when I said he did it.

Based on your posting history that I've seen, you have no honest interest in objective reality or rational discussion of extant facts.

Don't like it? That's just too damned bad.

It's not my job to look up your sources for you.

I seek rational discussion which is why I asked for your source. You can't claim something is a fact when you shy away from establishing it.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

It's not my job to look up your sources for you.

I seek rational discussion which is why I asked for your source. You can't claim something is a fact when you shy away from establishing it.

No, your job is to deny objective reality and remain gleefully ignorant of the facts.

Same old, same old.

 

[PirateMk1]

Yes, I am aware of some of these arguments from commentary, which is largely based on bias opinion. They are largely based on the act of signing something, not the impacts or any consequences of it. And I do not see most of it as positive accomplishment (rolling back the past is not moving forward); and some of these arguments he gets undeserved credit (residuals of Obama's economic policies of his first quarters, and residual of the last two years worth of effort to train and organize a local offensive against IS). You may as well give Obama the credit for the Great Recession or credit for getting Osama Bin Laden, despite the intelligence community working on it for a decade. And did you notice that most "roll back" was about creating more wealth for the already wealthy?

Now, as far as illegal immigration, that is his. And what Trump is, apparently, doing with our international aid to countries like Pakistan and Palestine is going to be all Trump's. This can be positive as long as he doesn't allow his silly ego to get in the way and if he actually means it for a change.

Also, this Tax-Cut Bill is all his. Incidentally, the government shut down this time around was held off for a month. In the meantime the GOP argument is that they want more money for military defense (unnecessary and based on state politics) and border security. And during Trump's "First 100 Days," which are the historically worst on record, he revived NASA. With them celebrating their grand tax-cut Bill, how do you think the GOP is going write checks?

- Not by applying new taxes on the poor, of who can't afford it and was left out of this Tax-Cut Bill.
- Not the wealthy, of who's tax-cuts are not set to expire.

You, Middle Class...the people the GOP tried to argue that this Bill was for in the first place. You will see new taxes starting next year and your idea of a tax-cut will be reduced to nothing. Therefore, Trump's Tax-Cut Bill is also not a positive accomplishment.

I am just saying why I like the man, and that as far as I am concerned he can keep going as he is. I have few problems with how he has governed. You obviously differ in opinion. Time will tell one way or the another.

 

[NeverTrump]

I wanted to see how ridiculous Trumps haters are and if their is a modicum of fairness in them. What could Trump do to change your mind on him to maybe a neutral stance?

Step Down, Delete Twitter and get a psychological evaluation. The man is clearly insane.

 

[Soopairik]

Step Down, Delete Twitter and get a psychological evaluation. The man is clearly insane.

Only he's too insane to delete his Twitter.

 

[Chomsky]

Does it truly matter though? I mean do we really care what the world thinks of our President? If he does a good job I mean

I see where you're going with this, and I used to think somewhat similarly. It was the old adage,

"He may be an asshole, but he's MY asshole!"

But Trump seems beyond that. He seems unfit and unable to do the job. Something's wrong intrinsically with his temperament. We see by the way he saber rattles about nuclear war, and lies continuously, changes his mind in a minute and denies he ever thought otherwise, and paints fantasy-as-fact to suit his needs.

So it's not just what he might get accomplished, but it's about him and his behaviour in office. I can't claim the guys full-on loony, but at the least he has big-time psychological and character defects. I see him as a danger to the country and the world.

And yes, I think it's important for the world to respect us. If not to do the right thing, then to allow us to function with our allies.

And I haven't even touched on the ethical & moral leadership that the Presidency demands ...

 

[ataraxia]

1. People seem to care what other World Leaders think of ours.

2. Tony Blair I brought up remembering him speaking before President Bush and then hearing Bushes inarticulate speech was awful. So I used Tony Blair in reference to if Trump spoke and acted like him would that individual like him then?

3. Lastly Trump in his first year has already accomplished more than Obama in 8 years!

1. Supreme Court Judge Gorsuch supports Constitutional Law
2. 59 missiles dropped in Syria.
3. No longer in TPP
4. Illegal immigration is now down 70%( the lowest in 17 years)
5. Consumer confidence highest ....

"Accomplished"? I don't disagree with everything here. Yes he has done some things. But some of the things he has "accomplished" are incredibly short sighted, useless, even counterproductive, and based on abject ignorance. After all, who doesn't want their taxes cut, right? So I can see how people with very shortsighted vision are celebrating. But every economist is telling us this is going to come back to bite them in a big way. It's like the kid who is happy he doesn't have to do homework.

He pulled out of the TPP. Shortsighted and ignorant. Basically, the TPP was the only bulwark the US had against expansion of Chinese influence in the far east. Now, it has lost much of its leverage there.

You are celebrating the travel ban? What the heck is it protecting us against? Have you thought about that? Almost all terrorist incidents by Muslim radicals in the US has been by those born here and radicalized later. So you go and ban a lot of people from traveling?

And the economy. You are just looking at trends that started since 2009 and giving credit to Trump for them. Strange thing to do. You might as well give him credit for nice weather.

So I am sorry, but these accomplishments are just shortsighted, pathetic, ineffective or counterproductive policies born out of abject ignorance and shortsightedness. That's why you can't just list them and expect anyone who knows anything about anything, even a little bit, to be impressed.

 

[MSgt]

I am just saying why I like the man, and that as far as I am concerned he can keep going as he is. I have few problems with how he has governed. You obviously differ in opinion. Time will tell one way or the another.

Yeah, I get that. What I don't understand is that even with the hard facts of the record, as well as the obvious reaches on the web site you presented, you still shove that aside to cling to the shallow in order to find something there to like. You are not alone. Some personal disclosure...

- Dad did thirty years in the Corps (1972-2002). Dad carries a badge in federal law enforcement (Game Warden) aboard Camp Lejeune.
- Mom supported him all her life. Mom is a very devout Christian.
- Both are avid Fox News watchers, their TriCare shifted to Medicaid last year, and, of course, supported me through my military career.

They both turned around last year, betrayed everything they have always believed in, and enthusiastically voted for a man who denigrated Vietnam Vets, expressed a whimsical attitude towards committing adultery, denigrated women, and represented the very economic elite that keeps politicians in his pocket. Despite flipping on just about every single campaign slogan, immediately after elected, they still like him. Despite having no agenda, as demonstrated by our history's worst "First 100 Days," they still like him. Despite his so-called accomplishments mostly only being about reversing the past, they like him. Despite this Ta-Cut Bill being just about entirely about the wealthy and the understood con of Trickle Down (as my CPA wife has informed them), they like him. And despite Paul Ryan announcing, in the wake of adding almost $2 trillion to the national credit card (which concerned them under Obama), that the GOP is going to attack Medicaid and Medicare next year, they like him.

There is obviously something very psychological at play here. It's as if they have shut down. And because they grew to be so very bitter about the world by clinging to the notion of Obama's birth certificate, clung to the notion of his anti-Christ status and his secret identity as a Muslim, supported the notion of the Liberal's silly Global Warming hoax, refused the conversation that the Great Recession proving Trickle Down was always a con game, clung to the notion of Hillary's Benghazi treachery, saw the shattering of the NeoCon's absurd notion that Iraq's democracy was supposed to be ready-made, blamed everything on Obamacare, grew to unconditionally support the police and chastised Black Lives Matter, and saw kneeling at football games as a personal attack on their ideas of nationalism...they simply welcome any self-flagellation through a man who exists only to flip off the world. Their like is driven by an irrational "lock her up" rage and instead of learning along the way as their belief systems proved false, they simply shut down and blamed everyone else for being right.

I don't mean to state that this is you. But there is a very general and irrational mood among Trump supporters that seem to unite them.

 

[Mr Person]

Stop lying all the time.

Stop embarrassing the United States and each of its citizens by doing things like insinuating dick size comparisons with foreign leaders.

Stop pursuing policies that **** us over.

Maybe actually make good on a huge infrastructure repair project. Not sure how we'll pay for it now that the scumbag blew up the deficit further to give his rich buddies a huge tax cut.....

Oh, right, and fire that evil swine, Sessions.




Or just resign and get the **** out of the way. Just, go home and appear on reality TV. Leave. That's a good option.

 

[slick]

What can Trump do to change your mind on him?

Well, he's doing a bang-up job overturning the norms of the political class & I'm all for that. After all doing so was his
featured campaign promise.

If however he caves on the 'Great Southern Wall' or gives the opposition "DACA" without ending chain migration, without
e-verify, without clamps on immigration I would 'change my mind on him'

 

[roughdraft274]

I wanted to see how ridiculous Trumps haters are and if their is a modicum of fairness in them. What could Trump do to change your mind on him to maybe a neutral stance?

1. Allow the Mueller investigation to complete without interference and for Trump to be found not guilty of any wrong doing and no collusion or political promises with Russia. (IE: No "help me get elected and I promise to stop the sanctions on Russia")

2. Stop tweeting/commenting about jailing/investigating political rivals. If there is something that needs to be investigated, that's the job of the FBI or JD. He shouldn't be screaming it from the rooftops like a ****ing moron.

3. Start to follow more of the basic political norms. I want to know that he's actually reading his daily briefs and memos that are presented to him and that he actually understands the issues. As of right now it's pretty universally known that he does not care about the facts or his briefings. Release his tax returns. Stop with the lies. I understand political posturing and advancing a narrative, but outright lies on a daily basis need to stop immediately.

4. Get a physical by an independent doctor and psychiatrist. He needs a mental workup done to see if he's still sane enough to do this kind of a job. I doubt he is.

 

[Soopairik]

Oh, and here is a point to ponder to those who say Obama has done nothing to stop the illegals from coming in.

Obama Has Deported More People Than Any Other President - ABC News

He's actually deported quite a lot of people.

 

[PirateMk1]

Yeah, I get that. What I don't understand is that even with the hard facts of the record, as well as the obvious reaches on the web site you presented, you still shove that aside to cling to the shallow in order to find something there to like. You are not alone. Some personal disclosure...

- Dad did thirty years in the Corps (1972-2002). Dad carries a badge in federal law enforcement (Game Warden) aboard Camp Lejeune.
- Mom supported him all her life. Mom is a very devout Christian.
- Both are avid Fox News watchers, their TriCare shifted to Medicaid last year, and, of course, supported me through my military career.

They both turned around last year, betrayed everything they have always believed in, and enthusiastically voted for a man who denigrated Vietnam Vets, expressed a whimsical attitude towards committing adultery, denigrated women, and represented the very economic elite that keeps politicians in his pocket. Despite flipping on just about every single campaign slogan, immediately after elected, they still like him. Despite having no agenda, as demonstrated by our history's worst "First 100 Days," they still like him. Despite his so-called accomplishments mostly only being about reversing the past, they like him. Despite this Ta-Cut Bill being just about entirely about the wealthy and the understood con of Trickle Down (as my CPA wife has informed them), they like him. And despite Paul Ryan announcing, in the wake of adding almost $2 trillion to the national credit card (which concerned them under Obama), that the GOP is going to attack Medicaid and Medicare next year, they like him.

There is obviously something very psychological at play here. It's as if they have shut down. And because they grew to be so very bitter about the world by clinging to the notion of Obama's birth certificate, clung to the notion of his anti-Christ status and his secret identity as a Muslim, supported the notion of the Liberal's silly Global Warming hoax, refused the conversation that the Great Recession proving Trickle Down was always a con game, clung to the notion of Hillary's Benghazi treachery, saw the shattering of the NeoCon's absurd notion that Iraq's democracy was supposed to be ready-made, blamed everything on Obamacare, grew to unconditionally support the police and chastised Black Lives Matter, and saw kneeling at football games as a personal attack on their ideas of nationalism...they simply welcome any self-flagellation through a man who exists only to flip off the world. Their like is driven by an irrational "lock her up" rage and instead of learning along the way as their belief systems proved false, they simply shut down and blamed everyone else for being right.

I don't mean to state that this is you. But there is a very general and irrational mood among Trump supporters that seem to unite them.

You do realize that there was a choice between two candidates and the other candidate was Hillary Clinton right. For many including me that WASNT a choice. That was Duh are ****ing kidding me? A Donald J Trump thank you very much. It wasn't a psychological choice, it was a practical one. I am thrilled with Trump's performance because I honestly thought he was democrat light. As I have said I am thrilled with how he has governed. Everybody that didn't vote for him that I know, all say I put aside my principles when I voted for Trump. No, I didnt, I voted for trash talking braggadocios rat bastard who fights for me on occasion. Hell, he was the only one in a long list of Republicans to have some fight in them. He's an in your face brawler. I like that about him, and he doesn't know the word quit. I don't agree with what he SAYS about a lot of things, but the way he governs, I am liking very much. There's a big difference in what he says and what he does. Its what he does that I am interested in. What he says is mostly immaterial to me. If he runs again, he has so far earned himself another vote.

It kind of sad the way you see your parents. Have you ever wondered what your parents might think of you and your notions?

 

[Russell797]

I wanted to see how ridiculous Trumps haters are and if their is a modicum of fairness in them. What could Trump do to change your mind on him to maybe a neutral stance?

I didn't vote. No option for reversing all his policies. I don't dislike the man so much as I dislike what he stands for...The exact opposite to me on most every issue. His policies are a disaster for the advancement of and respect for science in this country.

 

[Soopairik]

I didn't vote. No option for reversing all his policies. I don't dislike the man so much as I dislike what he stands for...The exact opposite to me on most every issue. His policies are a disaster for the advancement of and respect for science in this country.

Which Republican candidate would you have preferred to take his place?

 

[Russell797]

Which Republican candidate would you have preferred to take his place?

If I had to accept a Republican at all it would be one with moderate intentions. Not someone from the far right wing of the party, who has filled his cabinet with far right wing politicians in the place of persons actually qualified for the positions they hold. The head of the EPA should have scientific credentials..The head of NASA should have scientific credentials...

However, I will never vote for anyone representing the current Republican party as they are no friend to science in general...Very few American scientists self identify as politically conservative..about 6% actually. The drain of scientific talent to other countries has commenced.

 

[Chomsky]

Let me help you understand all this Chomsky.

With Obamacare we saw religious charities either forced to close their doors or sued over forced coverage of contraceptives and abortion pills.

Nothing like watching the Little Sisters of the Poor dragged into court time and time again.

Nothing like watching faith based clinics and hospitals have to close their doors because of the same mandate and because they couldn't comply they were denied any federal funding.

Nothing like watching faith based orphanages and adoption centers have to shut their doors because ACLU went after them because their beliefs are a child needs a mother and a father not two mothers or two fathers.

They watched bakers, photographers, florists, and any other business related to weddings dragged into costly court battles because their moral conscience in regard to the sacrament of marriage losing their livelihoods on the principle of how they view marriage. This angered millions upon millions of people to see this unfold. It had nothing to do with Republican, Democrat, Independent..... It didn't have anything to do with race or gender. It had to do with First Amendment rights being under attack.

So while you claim it is one selling their soul you couldn't be further from the truth. In the past 8 years under Obama people of faith have felt the attacks on their First Amendment rights to the quick. If Clinton would have been elected they would have been nailing the last nail in their own coffins.

Evangelicals and Catholics are quite pleased with Trump keeping his promise in saving the Judiciary from being lost to leftists for a generation who interpret our Constitution using foreign and International law skewing its very meaning. Making the courts healthy again is the first step in protecting rights.

I believe you are sincere and speaking from your heart in these thoughts Vesper, and I felt they justified a similarly dignified reply reflecting the effort and honestly you put forth in them. Thanks for your patience. Besides having a busy day, I needed to reflect a bit on this, and re-examine my thoughts on the subject. The intersection of faith, governance, and personal freedom, are among the issues I find the most difficult and complex to discern.

While I'm cognizant of the items you've listed, and can empathize with some, I don't see most of them in the same light as yourself in terms of the larger picture. Yes, to varying degrees these changes are occurring. But they are legal changes, for the most part. They are a matter of Constitution. They are cultural, yes, but first and foremost they are Constitutional.

I was raised Catholic, and am still a practicing Catholic. And despite my often liberal take on public policy as relating to others outside my home, I live my personal life quite conservatively. And while it's only one component in my life's compass, in my house we are faith-based and use faith in various degrees to guide our actions. I just believe in "Live and Let Live", when it comes to my fellow man.

We are a pluralistic society, and the atheist has as much right as the Catholic, Jew, or Muslim. The gay guy has as much right as the hetero. Some of the recent cultural changes have occurred quicker than I'd like, I will admit. I'm able to accept LGB for example, since it's none of my business what goes on behind closed doors. I am less accepting of public T though, since I see another individual trying to impress their personal views upon me, and trying to get me to play along. I suspect my problem with public transsexualism is very similar to the way those Christian bakers feel when forced to bake a gay themed cake.

But while I'm a Catholic, and indeed consider "Catholic" as my highest identifier, I'm also an American. I believe in the Constitution, and respect the courts. So as such, I respect the Court's decisions and respect the rights of those Americans it protects. I see little choice there.

As to supporting candidates that I find ethically repulsive, like Trump and Moore, I had to think hard and long on this. I live my life having idealistic goals, but execute towards those goals in pragmatic reality. We have to work with life's realities, if we want to affect change. So I'm often first tempted to try "ends justify the means" quick solutions, but I usually have my greater sense of ethics and morality soon over-ride any attempt to take the easy solution. Consequently, I do not subscribe to "ends justify the means". I think how we play the game, is more important than winning.

So with all this, no, I don't see myself agreeing with putting unethical and immoral people in office to accomplish my goals, as deserving as those goals may otherwise be. I think it's far too easy to fall into this trap, and to lead ourself astray.

Your post was thoughtful and heartfelt, and I hope you can also understand my thoughts on this matter.

 

[LesGovt]

I could not answer this poll as none fit my answer. My answer would simply be that I would like him if he became a great deal more Christ-like. I am not seeking perfection as that is impossible for any of us. I would just like him to possess humility and treat others as I would hope he would want others to treat him. I think tweeting is a good thing, but it should be limited to his agenda and what he wants to accomplish.

 

[yankintx]

I wanted to see how ridiculous Trumps haters are and if their is a modicum of fairness in them. What could Trump do to change your mind on him to maybe a neutral stance?

Trump lacks integrity, which is why this military guy would not shine Trumps shoes. He lies and distorts the truth on a DAILY basis. Can Trump actually be honest without exaggeration, that is a thought that may increase his base. The polls clearly indicate the military does not respect Trump, again its his lack of integrity. I realize the Adorables seem to believe as they give there Dear Leader a free pass on the truth telling the rest of America should as well, not this guy.

If Trump wants some respect, stop LYING !!

 

[Hari Seldon]

I wanted to see how ridiculous Trumps haters are and if their is a modicum of fairness in them. What could Trump do to change your mind on him to maybe a neutral stance?

And you got a ridiculous answer to a ridiculous poll. He's a lying, narcissistic douchebag. Nothing much will change that.

 

[jamesrage]

I wanted to see how ridiculous Trumps haters are and if their is a modicum of fairness in them. What could Trump do to change your mind on him to maybe a neutral stance?

If he completes all or most of his campaign promises it would change my mind on him. My issue with Trump isn't his behavior or the issues he campaigned on.Its the fact that prior to him jumping on the birther-tard bandwagon he was praising Obama.Prior to him saying lock her up he was giving her money, having her show up to his wedding,hanging out with her and husband and praising the job she was doing. Prior to him claiming to not being anti-establishment he was donating money to liberal democrats and RINO republicans and praising the jobs they were doing. Prior to him saying he was pro-2nd amendment he supported a ban on semi-automatic firearms under the guise of assault weapons ban. It would be the equivalent of Ted Cruz running as a liberal democrat and liberal democrats being stupid enough to vote for him.It would be like Nancy Pelosi running as a conservative republican despite all the years of trying to enact liberal democrat laws.