What are your SPECIFIC objections to illegal immigration?

[mike2810]

Take a hike, mike...Your beating that strawman dead...

nobody here WANTS or JUSTIFIES illegal immigration

some of us want solutions other than a gestapo state or an iron curtain on the border.

This really is not worth a reply. You try and disguise your stance on illegal immigration and have a funny way of showing you dont want illegal immigration . Many of us want solutions regarding illegal immigrations that stops the continual inflow of illegal aliens. I would gladly "take a hike", but part of my State has warning signs that it is dangerous to hike due to drug trafficing and coyote bringing in illegal aliens.

 

[MKULTRABOY]

You try and disguise your stance on illegal immigration...

Yeah I keep getting the veiled 'yer pro-illegal-immigration' hints. I secretly am allied with latin revolutionary racial groups to retake the southern US. Ya got me.

 

[majora$$hole]

Yeah I keep getting the veiled 'yer pro-illegal-immigration' hints. I secretly am allied with latin revolutionary racial groups to retake the southern US. Ya got me.

or you are making a ton of $ off of these poor people the way things are now and don't want to see anything changing that.

 

[teamosil]

I see the two biggest problems with illegal immigration as being:

1) Undocumented status gives every person in their lives enormous power over them. At any time a neighbor, boss, lover or friend could call ICE and potentially rip them away from their entire lives. This power is routinely abused. Employers refuse to pay them what they agreed and then threaten to have them deported if they report them. Husbands and boyfriends beat undocumented wives and girlfriends and threaten to report them if they say anything. Crimes go unreported, rape, physical abuse, slavery, etc, all flourish because of this massive imbalance in power.

2) Undocumented immigrants often don't pay income taxes. They consume public goods like everybody else, but they aren't able to pay in at the same rates as everybody else.

IMO both of these problems are solved by setting up a relatively rigid guest worker program that aims to regulate the number of participants based on the US's economic need for low skill/low cost labor.

 

[Иосиф Сталин]

Well, who's going to pick up strawberries in the fields under 110 degrees on a crazy sunny afternoon in the month of August for 8 or 9 bucks an hour. An American? Yeah, you'll have to call an ambulance after 20 minutes and lay him on a stretcher. And then next thing you know, strawberries will cost $10 a piece. Have you seen the fat ****s we've got walking around in this nation? I mean, we've got some pretty obese ****s walking around, doing nothing but collecting unemployment or doing these easy jobs that were just designed to generate more employment, but not because they're really that necessary.

Americans need to stop complaining about illegals and get off their lazy asses. As for these "I-work-part-time" ladies that keep wagging their tongues and like to find any little thing that's wrong in an otherwise perfect layout, they need to realize their jobs are easy to do and that's the reason why they have plenty of time to stick their noses up people's asses. Your jobs aren't really stressful, they don't require any type of skills, expect for the skill to sip your coffee once every 2 minutes or complain about your imaginary migraines and how illegals are taking away all your precious benefits without being able to mention a single reliable fact.

But pretty soon a new era of modern slaves will kick in in America, and you'll truly understand what illegals go through every single day because you're going to be in their same position. This country is going down and you're going down with it. And in part I'm glad, because people are too spoiled and have forgotten to cherish and appreciate what they have, especially the younger generations.

 

[Иосиф Сталин]

How some people can spend the day posting messages here and then complain about illegals taking their jobs is something beyond my understanding.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Well, who's going to pick up strawberries in the fields under 110 degrees on a crazy sunny afternoon in the month of August for 8 or 9 bucks an hour. An American? Yeah, you'll have to call an ambulance after 20 minutes and lay him on a stretcher. And then next thing you know, strawberries will cost $10 a piece. Have you seen the fat ****s we've got walking around in this nation? I mean, we've got some pretty obese ****s walking around, doing nothing but collecting unemployment or doing these easy jobs that were just designed to generate more employment, but not because they're really that necessary.

I've done it. And would do it again.

Americans need to stop complaining about illegals and get off their lazy asses. As for these "I-work-part-time" ladies that keep wagging their tongues and like to find any little thing that's wrong in an otherwise perfect layout, they need to realize their jobs are easy to do and that's the reason why they have plenty of time to stick their noses up people's asses. Your jobs aren't really stressful, they don't require any type of skills, expect for the skill to sip your coffee once every 2 minutes or complain about your imaginary migraines and how illegals are taking away all your precious benefits without being able to mention a single reliable fact.

Talk about sexist.

But pretty soon a new era of modern slaves will kick in in America, and you'll truly understand what illegals go through every single day because you're going to be in their same position. This country is going down and you're going down with it. And in part I'm glad, because people are too spoiled and have forgotten to cherish and appreciate what they have, especially the younger generations.

OH look...another "America is going down!" line.

 

[Иосиф Сталин]

I've done it. And would do it again.



Talk about sexist.



OH look...another "America is going down!" line.

Look, buddy. You can go where I know with your precious simplistic misleading unimaginative responses. You'll easily conquer one or two morons who are willing to take your side just because they share your same ideology, but you won't convince people who truly have a clue about the subject being discussed.

Sometimes you can also not have an answer at all. Having an answer for everything is an exhibition of acute bad taste.

 

[mike2810]

How some people can spend the day posting messages here and then complain about illegals taking their jobs is something beyond my understanding.

I'm retired, so what is your point? I see it is beyond your understanding.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Look, buddy. You can go where I know with your precious simplistic misleading unimaginative responses. You'll easily conquer one or two morons who are willing to take your side just because they share your same ideology, but you won't convince people who truly have a clue about the subject being discussed.

Sometimes you can also not have an answer at all. Having an answer for everything is an exhibition of acute bad taste.

Bold part: I have far more understanding of illegal immigration than you think. The difference between me and you is that I don't let my emotions overrule facts.

Underlined part: I love it when people comment on my sig. Usually the ones that do try to make some smart alek comment about it such as you just did. The problem being is that they don't actually comprehend it enough to realize what it actually says.

 

[LesGovt]

How some people can spend the day posting messages here and then complain about illegals taking their jobs is something beyond my understanding.

I cannot speak for all here, but I am retired. They are not taking my job, but they are taking jobs that could go to the citizens of the United States.

 

[teamosil]

I cannot speak for all here, but I am retired. They are not taking my job, but they are taking jobs that could go to the citizens of the United States.

That is based on the incorrect assumption that there are a fixed number of jobs. That isn't true. It's more dynamic than that. The total number of jobs expands or contracts based on all kinds of factors. There are plenty of scenarios where we have more population in the US, but lower unemployment and vice versa.

For an industry to operate it requires employees at a range of skill levels. For example, a software company still requires people to clean the place and pack the boxes and whatnot. Virtually all people that grow up in the US are overqualified for some of the lowest end jobs. Just having even completed junior high school qualifies someone to work, for example, at a McDonalds, but there are many jobs below that skill level that our economy needs filled. For example, picking fruit is a lower skill job. If a person who is qualified for a job at McDonalds is working as a fruit picker, that is inefficient. It's a waste of resources, it produces less tax revenue, lowers our nation's quality of living, etc.

But, in order to sustain the good jobs, we need to fill the bad jobs. Without people picking fruit, the fruit company won't exist so it won't be able to hire truck drivers and accountants and sales people and whatnot. We have two options for how to fill those kinds of jobs. We can either force citizens to do them somehow or we can let people from elsewhere who are less skilled do them and try to create more skilled jobs for the more skilled folks. With other people taking care of the low skill jobs we have the labor pool to allow industries to expand and we free up our more skilled workers for better jobs. That approach makes a lot more sense for us. We should be focused on moving forwards, not holding ourselves back by clinging to low end jobs.

 

[LesGovt]

That is based on the incorrect assumption that there are a fixed number of jobs. That isn't true. It's more dynamic than that. The total number of jobs expands or contracts based on all kinds of factors. There are plenty of scenarios where we have more population in the US, but lower unemployment and vice versa.

For an industry to operate it requires employees at a range of skill levels. For example, a software company still requires people to clean the place and pack the boxes and whatnot. Virtually all people that grow up in the US are overqualified for some of the lowest end jobs. Just having even completed junior high school qualifies someone to work, for example, at a McDonalds, but there are many jobs below that skill level that our economy needs filled. For example, picking fruit is a lower skill job. If a person who is qualified for a job at McDonalds is working as a fruit picker, that is inefficient. It's a waste of resources, it produces less tax revenue, lowers our nation's quality of living, etc.

But, in order to sustain the good jobs, we need to fill the bad jobs. Without people picking fruit, the fruit company won't exist so it won't be able to hire truck drivers and accountants and sales people and whatnot. We have two options for how to fill those kinds of jobs. We can either force citizens to do them somehow or we can let people from elsewhere who are less skilled do them and try to create more skilled jobs for the more skilled folks. With other people taking care of the low skill jobs we have the labor pool to allow industries to expand and we free up our more skilled workers for better jobs. That approach makes a lot more sense for us. We should be focused on moving forwards, not holding ourselves back by clinging to low end jobs.

No, I never said that there were a fixed number of jobs and I understand the needs for skilled and unskilled workers. There are all types of jobs being taken by illegal aliens including roofing, farming, meat packing, etc. Americans may not have wanted to do the farming work, but they have traditionally done the roofing and meat packing, and I am sure there are plenty of other jobs they take. For those jobs that can be proven to be ones no American can take, first we need to find out if this is actually true. There may be other innovative ways to have the farming done than by illegals. If not, and I bet there are ways, but, if not, then have a guest worker program and send them home every so often. They would not be citizens nor afforded the rights of a citizen.

So, end illegal immigration. Fine employers who hire illegals and with some other practical and common sense approaches, we can lift wages and without having the government to prop them up.

 

[teamosil]

No, I never said that there were a fixed number of jobs and I understand the needs for skilled and unskilled workers. There are all types of jobs being taken by illegal aliens including roofing, farming, meat packing, etc. Americans may not have wanted to do the farming work, but they have traditionally done the roofing and meat packing, and I am sure there are plenty of other jobs they take. For those jobs that can be proven to be ones no American can take, first we need to find out if this is actually true.

You shouldn't take the reality that not too many Americans are going into roofing or meat packing as a sign of decline, that is a sign of progress. We're advancing. There are 3 million fewer Americans that lack a high school degree than there were 10 years ago. Those 3 million relatively low skill workers need to be replaced if we're going to keep moving up the ladder.

if not, then have a guest worker program and send them home every so often. They would not be citizens nor afforded the rights of a citizen.

Yeah, exactly. That's how guest worker programs work.

So, end illegal immigration. Fine employers who hire illegals and with some other practical and common sense approaches, we can lift wages and without having the government to prop them up.

It would not lift wages, it would hurt them. For example, if you prevent the fruit industry from hiring undocumented immigrants, they don't start hiring citizens to work 3 months out of the year travelling from shanty town to shanty town in orchards and whatnot living in big bunkhouses and working 16 hours a day for $5 a day. No, they go out of business. That means all those truck drivers and office assistants and vice presidents and sales people and whatnot that worked there are out looking for work. More people looking for work means lower wages for everybody over time.

 

[LesGovt]

You shouldn't take the reality that not too many Americans are going into roofing or meat packing as a sign of decline, that is a sign of progress. We're advancing. There are 3 million fewer Americans that lack a high school degree than there were 10 years ago. Those 3 million relatively low skill workers need to be replaced if we're going to keep moving up the ladder.

I disagree. Many of the meatpacking industry jobs are in smaller towns and U.S. citizens are losing jobs and wages are plummeting due to illegal immigation. In fact, one town in Nebraska has two meat packing plants and is taking extra-ordinary measures to remove illiegal immigrants from their town. Not only does it harm employment, but it is a total disregard of the rule of law.

Nebraska meatpacking town passes illegal immigration bill

It would not lift wages, it would hurt them. For example, if you prevent the fruit industry from hiring undocumented immigrants, they don't start hiring citizens to work 3 months out of the year travelling from shanty town to shanty town in orchards and whatnot living in big bunkhouses and working 16 hours a day for $5 a day. No, they go out of business. That means all those truck drivers and office assistants and vice presidents and sales people and whatnot that worked there are out looking for work. More people looking for work means lower wages for everybody over time.

I agree that certain types of farming can be problematical and may need a guest worker program. That is not a reason to accept illegal immigration.

 

[Cephus]

I see the two biggest problems with illegal immigration as being:

1) Undocumented status gives every person in their lives enormous power over them. At any time a neighbor, boss, lover or friend could call ICE and potentially rip them away from their entire lives. This power is routinely abused. Employers refuse to pay them what they agreed and then threaten to have them deported if they report them. Husbands and boyfriends beat undocumented wives and girlfriends and threaten to report them if they say anything. Crimes go unreported, rape, physical abuse, slavery, etc, all flourish because of this massive imbalance in power.

2) Undocumented immigrants often don't pay income taxes. They consume public goods like everybody else, but they aren't able to pay in at the same rates as everybody else.

IMO both of these problems are solved by setting up a relatively rigid guest worker program that aims to regulate the number of participants based on the US's economic need for low skill/low cost labor.

Here's an easy solution to #1. Don't be here illegally. Wow, simple.

 

[Bodi]

There's no such thing as an illegal human being and people should just be allowed to go where they want to.

Oh, will we ever live in a truly enlightened age!

'No' is the answer.

Until there is a one world government and no criminals, then that idea is pure fantasy...

 

[teamosil]

Here's an easy solution to #1. Don't be here illegally. Wow, simple.

As a general rule of thumb, when you think something is simple, you just don't understand it terribly well. Tons of people who are here illegally were brought here by their parents when they were kids. Many were fleeing violence or famine or war. Some came here because they married a citizen or legal permenant resident who the refused to file for them to get citizenship because they liked the power it gave over them. Some were here legally on a work or student visa and it expired after they fell in love or had a kid or some other thing that made it hard to leave, but before their permenant residency paperwork worked its way through the system. Some think they are here legally, but actually are not because their employer has been lying to them about how it works. Some came here because somebody abroad promised them that if they came to the US they would give them a work visa and all they asked was that they work for them for a year in an office job, but when they got here it turned out that they didn't get a work visa and the people who brought them required that they work as a prostitute instead of in an office or they would turn them in to ICE who would detain them for a year before sending them back. When you are on a work visa and you get laid off, in theory you have one week to find another employer that is willing to sponsor you or you have to be out of the country. Obviously it takes a lot longer than that to find a job, so people who came here totally legally and conducted themselves totally responsibly are suddenly faced with a choice of abandoning their entire life or lying low for a few weeks longer hoping they can get a job. And so on. It isn't so simple as you might assume.

 

[Bodi]

Here's an easy solution to #1. Don't be here illegally. Wow, simple.

I don't like that one... is there another?

 

[Bodi]

As a general rule of thumb, when you think something is simple, you just don't understand it terribly well. Tons of people who are here illegally were brought here by their parents when they were kids. Many were fleeing violence or famine or war. Some came here because they married a citizen or legal permenant resident who the refused to file for them to get citizenship because they liked the power it gave over them. Some were here legally on a work or student visa and it expired after they fell in love or had a kid or some other thing that made it hard to leave, but before their permenant residency paperwork worked its way through the system. Some think they are here legally, but actually are not because their employer has been lying to them about how it works. Some came here because somebody abroad promised them that if they came to the US they would give them a work visa and all they asked was that they work for them for a year in an office job, but when they got here it turned out that they didn't get a work visa and the people who brought them required that they work as a prostitute instead of in an office or they would turn them in to ICE who would detain them for a year before sending them back. When you are on a work visa and you get laid off, in theory you have one week to find another employer that is willing to sponsor you or you have to be out of the country. Obviously it takes a lot longer than that to find a job, so people who came here totally legally and conducted themselves totally responsibly are suddenly faced with a choice of abandoning their entire life or lying low for a few weeks longer hoping they can get a job. And so on. It isn't so simple as you might assume.

You didn't say what part he didn't understand... you just listed some obvious stuff instead.

 

[Bodi]

I disagree. Many of the meatpacking industry jobs are in smaller towns and U.S. citizens are losing jobs and wages are plummeting due to illegal immigation. In fact, one town in Nebraska has two meat packing plants and is taking extra-ordinary measures to remove illiegal immigrants from their town. Not only does it harm employment, but it is a total disregard of the rule of law.

Nebraska meatpacking town passes illegal immigration bill



I agree that certain types of farming can be problematical and may need a guest worker program. That is not a reason to accept illegal immigration.

60 Minutes did a story on a town like that where 20 years ago the job paid twice as much as it does now and it is now done almost by all illegal aliens...

 

[teamosil]

60 Minutes did a story on a town like that where 20 years ago the job paid twice as much as it does now and it is now done almost by all illegal aliens...

Yeah, that's pretty much my point. That's the old economy. Those aren't the good jobs anymore. But, as old industries get less rewarding, new ones pop up and are more rewarding. The number of people who work in technology fields today in the US, for example, would have been almost unimaginable just 20 years ago. The economy moves on and we will do a lot better trying to move with it- or even stay ahead of it- than we will trying to cling to the old ways. We ought to be trying to figure out how to create more biotech and green technology jobs, or even nanotech or space jobs, not how to more effectively artificially bias the meatpacking job market in favor of our citizens.

 

[Bodi]

Yeah, that's pretty much my point. That's the old economy. Those aren't the good jobs anymore. But, as old industries get less rewarding, new ones pop up and are more rewarding. The number of people who work in technology fields today in the US, for example, would have been almost unimaginable just 20 years ago. The economy moves on and we will do a lot better trying to move with it- or even stay ahead of it- than we will trying to cling to the old ways.

That may be your point, but that is kinda ridiculous, no offense. The reason that we have less high-school and college kids in jobs is because little Johnny used to go into entry level positions that are now almost obsolete due to illegal immigrants bringing down wages.

 

[teamosil]

That may be your point, but that is kinda ridiculous, no offense. The reason that we have less high-school and college kids in jobs is because little Johnny used to go into entry level positions that are now almost obsolete due to illegal immigrants bringing down wages.

You don't think the fact that we're just coming out of the biggest global recession the world has experienced since the great depression has something to do with that?

 

[Bodi]

You don't think the fact that we're just coming out of the biggest global recession the world has experienced since the great depression has something to do with that?

This has been an issue that is devolving (depending on point of view) for the last 40 years... so no, I don't.