What are you in your opinion?

[Rogue Valley]

I'm officially an Independent.

 

[Perotista]

When Goldwaters daughter wrote his biography she stated that today he would be in the middle between the two party extremes.

Since I consider Barry my political mentor, I think she is right. Goldwater was once known as the father of modern conservatism. Most of today's so called or self-professed conservatives call Goldwater a Libertarian. Even though I haven't moved from what was considered extreme right back in 1964, I find myself in the center of the political spectrum today. When it comes to the Republican and the Democratic Party, I can't call either my political home. I see both major parties of robbing the individual of his freedoms and liberties for each's agenda. That both major parties are more than happy to use government to take away an individual citizens rights. From different sides of the political spectrum for sure, but each in their own way want government control of each citizen. That I oppose.

 

[Phys251]

Fighting like cats and dogs is as American as Mom and apple pie, it's as American as it gets.
But at the end of the day, tally up the wins and losses, and then sit down, light some cigars, pass around some liquor and hammer out something between the two sides for the good of the largest number of Americans, the goddam middle class fer chrissakes.

No more tribalism. It's okay to poke each other in the eye and root for your team but let's not forget, in the end this isn't a game or a reality show, it's very serious business and the American people need to know that there are institutions in government which can be trusted, and it starts with you Congress critters and ends at the White House, with a lot of stops along the way.

Bring back bipartisanship, show America that you can trust each other at least some of the time.
Conservatives need liberals and vice versa. You can learn a lot from us, and we can learn lots from you, we just have to trust each other a little bit.
Accept that different people love this country, even if they love it a little bit differently than you would.

Let's be AMERICANS first, then we can play at being Republicans and Democrats.

If Republicans will return to the days of respecting facts, then I will consider the offer. And not until then.

(And please don't play the both-sides-do-it game in response to this.)

 

[Moderate Right]

This is where liberals need conservatives.
Liberals are wonderful dreamers but conservatives love poking holes in those dreamy hot air balloons, and there are indeed times when liberals need a hole poked in their balloon. That doesn't mean they shouldn't fly, it just means that they have to patch some holes and make a better flying machine, one that a few conservatives might like to take a ride in.

Liberals were born with hearts at the cost of no brains. In particular, they have all of these grandiose ideas that they don't think through. As long as it sounds good, do it.

 

[Winchester]

So many polls here asking if you think this or that, but the results mean nothing unless we know what % of people are far left/right, moderately left/right or center. So take the poll and we'll find out (maybe) how many of us are X,Y or Z.

Something else. More issue oriented.

 

[SILVER SURFER]

I'm a disgusted, disillusioned straight white male who is fed the hell up with Trump, the alt-right, the Religious Right's sell out to the Trump Administration, Congress - both sides of the isle, Democratic confusion and general pussiness, the Democratic Party's inexplicable willingness to remove itself from all things Bill and Hillary, and America's tacit support for a greater presence in the Middle East.

I am also sick and tired of tribalism, partisanship, racism, all forms of bigotry, America's brain numbing fascination with money, status and celebrity. I am over tired of growing militancy of America and all the faux bull**** nationalism by citizens who haven't and won't sacrifice a damn thing for their country.

I guess that makes me an Independent.

That would be aisle. Although OTOH, maybe isle is correct as Congress seems to be on its own little island isolated from the rest of us. As for the rest of your post, yeah, pretty much...although I confess I am fascinated with money (acquiring it, that is).

Guess that makes me an independent too. I consider myself generally a bit, but only a bit, left of center. But I can lean either way, sometimes to the point of falling over, depending on the issue (Trump et al being an example).

 

[Risky Thicket]

That would be aisle. Although OTOH, maybe isle is correct as Congress seems to be on its own little island isolated from the rest of us. As for the rest of your post, yeah, pretty much...although I confess I am fascinated with money (acquiring it, that is).

Guess that makes me an independent too. I consider myself generally a bit, but only a bit, left of center. But I can lean either way, sometimes to the point of falling over, depending on the issue (Trump et al being an example).

Aisle. Right you are. Thanks.

 

[Risky Thicket]

That would be aisle. Although OTOH, maybe isle is correct as Congress seems to be on its own little island isolated from the rest of us. As for the rest of your post, yeah, pretty much...although I confess I am fascinated with money (acquiring it, that is).

Guess that makes me an independent too. I consider myself generally a bit, but only a bit, left of center. But I can lean either way, sometimes to the point of falling over, depending on the issue (Trump et al being an example).

There’s nothing wrong with the acquisition of money. I would hope most Americans are actively involved in it. I am opposed to raw and/or predatory capitalism. If there is such a thing as deep state the 1% control it.

 

[NeverTrump]

So many polls here asking if you think this or that, but the results mean nothing unless we know what % of people are far left/right, moderately left/right or center. So take the poll and we'll find out (maybe) how many of us are X,Y or Z.

Progressively Moderate is not on your list? Oh well...

 

[Sweden]

So many polls here asking if you think this or that, but the results mean nothing unless we know what % of people are far left/right, moderately left/right or center. So take the poll and we'll find out (maybe) how many of us are X,Y or Z.

We have a problem. The trad left/right criteria no longer work. Not in Europe and not, I think,in the US either.

In Europe for most of the 20th century left/right was closely associated with class. In England the great majority of the workers voted Labour (socialist) and the Middle classes Conservative. But now Labour is full of trendy lefty lecturers. And the workers who resent their towns eing taken over by immigrants ae being told they are 'Far Right'. It is the same here in Sweden. One only needs to point out that massive large scale immigration has been an economic and social catastrophe to be told one is right wing, even if one continues to favour the welfare soft socialist model which has dominated Swedish politics for a century.

 

[MrPeanut]

I'm in between the center left and the far left. The best description of me would probably be Social Democrat, but people tend to confuse that with a full bore Socialist or some type of regular Liberal.

 

[SILVER SURFER]

There’s nothing wrong with the acquisition of money. I would hope most Americans are actively involved in it. I am opposed to raw and/or predatory capitalism. If there is such a thing as deep state the 1% control it.

Yeah, I understood and agree with your point. My comment was just a bit of facetiousness, albeit with a kernel of truth.

 

[PleasantValley]

Nice poll, Lefty.

It was gratifying to see most of whom responded are right or left of center.
This means we can have a meaningful conversation.

I have learned there is no reasoning with the extremes.
By their very definition they are unreasonable.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

You're correct on the 1964 civil rights bill. Due to Barry thinking portions were unconstitutional he voted against it. But he previously had voted for the 1957 and 1960 civil rights bills. He would have voted for the senate version of the 1964 bill which didn't have the two portions he thought unconstitutional. But that wasn't to be and a different version passed with him voting Nay. What was, was.

Thing is, what Old Goldy didn't want to admit is that a lot of the Southern states knew how to play him like a violin WRT to the segregation issues.
The disaster assumed gargantuan proportions rather quickly, the church bombings in Birminham, the Selma bus issue, the dogs and hoses being unleashed, those three kids from SNCC who were killed for daring to register black voters, Edmund Pettis, etc.

The rest of the country finally got an up close look, and they were horrified and disgusted.
Like it or not, it came down to Uncle Sam, at least as far as the majority were concerned.
Wallace's 1963 "Segregation forever" speech should have been a red line for Barry Goldwater. It was an out and out insurrection.
I know he wasn't a bigot. Bigots knew how hard he he stuck to his principles however, and they hid behind his rock ribbed stance as cover.

PS: The quote about gays - - "Everyone knows that gays have served honorably in the military since the time of Julius Caesar. The Army doesn't care if you are straight, they care if you can shoot straight."
I think that's pretty close to verbatim, but it was off the top of my head.

I'll never forget his little note to Dole: "You and I are the liberals of the Republican Party now, can you imagine that?"

His final salvo however, was telling: "Do not associate my name with anything that you do. You are extremists and you have hurt the country more than the Democrats ever have."

 

[Fearandloathing]

Thing is, what Old Goldy didn't want to admit is that a lot of the Southern states knew how to play him like a violin WRT to the segregation issues.
The disaster assumed gargantuan proportions rather quickly, the church bombings in Birminham, the Selma bus issue, the dogs and hoses being unleashed, those three kids from SNCC who were killed for daring to register black voters, Edmund Pettis, etc.

The rest of the country finally got an up close look, and they were horrified and disgusted.
Like it or not, it came down to Uncle Sam, at least as far as the majority were concerned.
Wallace's 1963 "Segregation forever" speech should have been a red line for Barry Goldwater. It was an out and out insurrection.
I know he wasn't a bigot. Bigots knew how hard he he stuck to his principles however, and they hid behind his rock ribbed stance as cover.

PS: The quote about gays - - "Everyone knows that gays have served honorably in the military since the time of Julius Caesar. The Army doesn't care if you are straight, they care if you can shoot straight."
I think that's pretty close to verbatim, but it was off the top of my head.

I'll never forget his little note to Dole: "You and I are the liberals of the Republican Party now, can you imagine that?"

His final salvo however, was telling: "Do not associate my name with anything that you do. You are extremists and you have hurt the country more than the Democrats ever have."

View attachment 67233948 View attachment 67233949 View attachment 67233950

I became aware and active during that election campaign, AU H20 was made into a cross between the wicked witch of the west and Hitler in those days. What I remember most is his "bomb Hanoi" which frightened people. I think a of of voters held their noses and voted for Johnson who I rate below average and then some.

But the cool aid said we'd be in a nuke war if AU H20 was elected, we could hear the commies warming up their missiles. It was not until taking a history course to journalism where I learned that Goldwater's Vietnam policy was being carried out anyway, and that Goldwater was the greater "liberal" on race issues; he held "negros" in respect and unlike Johnson never used the "N" world. It was where I wrote unknowingly then, "politics h.as nothing to do with what is, it is what you've been convinced it is.

That lesson was to repeat on a grand scale in the 1972 Canadian national election where prime minister Pierre Trudeau made fun of the oppostion's promise to "freeze" wages and prices with "Zap, you're frozen." Trudeau would implement wage and price controls, not freeze them mind you, less than 3 months later. The man had great cool aid

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

If Republicans will return to the days of respecting facts, then I will consider the offer. And not until then.

(And please don't play the both-sides-do-it game in response to this.)

Ummmm, scuse me? It's me here, Checkers...remember?

Yeah facts, inconvenient at times, but facts are important pesky things and they deserve respect.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Liberals were born with hearts at the cost of no brains. In particular, they have all of these grandiose ideas that they don't think through. As long as it sounds good, do it.

Talking like that is part of the problem.

 

[Atomic Kid]

So many polls here asking if you think this or that, but the results mean nothing unless we know what % of people are far left/right, moderately left/right or center. So take the poll and we'll find out (maybe) how many of us are X,Y or Z.

You know that you can click on "Profile Statistics" on the bar at the top of the page to see that breakdown of the users on this site, don't you?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I became aware and active during that election campaign, AU H20 was made into a cross between the wicked witch of the west and Hitler in those days. What I remember most is his "bomb Hanoi" which frightened people. I think a of of voters held their noses and voted for Johnson who I rate below average and then some.

But the cool aid said we'd be in a nuke war if AU H20 was elected, we could hear the commies warming up their missiles. It was not until taking a history course to journalism where I learned that Goldwater's Vietnam policy was being carried out anyway, and that Goldwater was the greater "liberal" on race issues; he held "negros" in respect and unlike Johnson never used the "N" world. It was where I wrote unknowingly then, "politics h.as nothing to do with what is, it is what you've been convinced it is.

That lesson was to repeat on a grand scale in the 1972 Canadian national election where prime minister Pierre Trudeau made fun of the oppostion's promise to "freeze" wages and prices with "Zap, you're frozen." Trudeau would implement wage and price controls, not freeze them mind you, less than 3 months later. The man had great cool aid

He also said, "I think we ought to lob a few nukes into the men's room at The Kremlin."
The resulting billboard campaign was interesting.

AUH2O's slogan: "In your heart, you know he's right" got countered with "In your guts, you know he's nuts"

 

[Geoist]

I am a geo-mutualist, which I suppose makes me far-left. However, geoism has had its sympathizers on the right, including Churchill and Buckley.

 

[Mach]

On that political compass I too am left of center, and down a bit towards Libertarian. Hence the "slight left" lean.

 

[Perotista]

Thing is, what Old Goldy didn't want to admit is that a lot of the Southern states knew how to play him like a violin WRT to the segregation issues.
The disaster assumed gargantuan proportions rather quickly, the church bombings in Birminham, the Selma bus issue, the dogs and hoses being unleashed, those three kids from SNCC who were killed for daring to register black voters, Edmund Pettis, etc.

The rest of the country finally got an up close look, and they were horrified and disgusted.
Like it or not, it came down to Uncle Sam, at least as far as the majority were concerned.
Wallace's 1963 "Segregation forever" speech should have been a red line for Barry Goldwater. It was an out and out insurrection.
I know he wasn't a bigot. Bigots knew how hard he he stuck to his principles however, and they hid behind his rock ribbed stance as cover.

PS: The quote about gays - - "Everyone knows that gays have served honorably in the military since the time of Julius Caesar. The Army doesn't care if you are straight, they care if you can shoot straight."
I think that's pretty close to verbatim, but it was off the top of my head.

I'll never forget his little note to Dole: "You and I are the liberals of the Republican Party now, can you imagine that?"

His final salvo however, was telling: "Do not associate my name with anything that you do. You are extremists and you have hurt the country more than the Democrats ever have."

View attachment 67233948 View attachment 67233949 View attachment 67233950

My quote was off the top of my head also. Close enough for both. Even without the religious, compromise today has become a four letter word. It isn't just one party, it's both. Governing and small steps forward for this nation comes with compromise. Look at the senate, Reid, McConnell and Schumer are all of the no compromise leaders. Gone are Mitchell and Dole, Lott and Daschle. Gone are the days when IKE would have LBJ, then senate majority leader over to the White House three times a week to discuss how to get IKE's agenda through congress. Gone are the days when JFK and LBJ worked with then senate minority leader Everit Dirksen. Gone too are the days of Reagan and Tip O'Neal, their relationship was legendary and compromise worked. Even Gingrich worked with Bill Clinton, but he kept it behind closed doors.

I don't know what happened. It's now became an all of nothing proposition. The days of the big tent Democratic Party are over, so too are the old Rockefeller Republicans which used to rule the northeast.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

In political compass tests I come out somewhere in the left-libertarian region. That fits pretty well. There are a lot of stock planks on both the left and right that I strongly oppose, and that's why I've never joined a political party.

The cost of that is I have no real tribe.

 

[itsforthekids]

I am a pure centrist conservative. In other words, I'm completely normal. No matter what you say, lefties aren't normal. Their ideas aren't normal, their policies certainly aren't normal. In fact, their policies for the most part are harmful.

 

[Moderate Right]

I am a pure centrist conservative. In other words, I'm completely normal. No matter what you say, lefties aren't normal. Their ideas aren't normal, their policies certainly aren't normal. In fact, their policies for the most part are harmful.

Isn't a progressive a lefty?