Western Kentucky Professor: Trump's victory signals that human decency is no longer an American virtue

[Fearandloathing]

You can read the full article here. Here are some snippets on key points:

This is a terrific, but sad great read. Quite frankly, I cannot disagree with a single word he wrote. Do you guys think human decency is dead?

All of it true. All of it known for decades and yet you elected him as president.....................twice.

Rob a bank - run for president. No difference really

 

[BabaVoss]

Walk TO the capitol.

Wow. So clear. So.... you read that and to you it means, "STORM THE PLACE AND GO INTO THE BUILDING, AND... SOMETHING?"

Yes. AFTER Trump and his cronies riled them up, repeatedly using words like FIGHT and COMBAT many times, told them they had been lied to repeatedly, and threatened that they would lose their country if they didn’t “fight like hell”. Anyone could see it if they had their eyes open.

Did you read through the sequence of events building up to Jan 6th? This event had been in the works for months, planned and orchestrated. It is so obvious.

OK. you are in the cult, not me.

You are a fervent cult member. Does it hurt?

 

[soap box]

HE shows people talking about organizing the protest and he pretends that they are talking about the riot that was a once in a generation fluke.


That is shit talk. NOthing more.

Again , you don't know enough to realize what was posted to you. I can tell because you cannot deny the facts he posted. You have not posted any actual true statement regarding the facts he posted.

 

[BrotherFease]

Biden wasn’t a president to go around tooting his own horn. He liked to remain behind the scenes. Much like Eisenhower who did quite a lot behind the scenes. IKE was if my memory right rated 22nd on the presidential rankings. But over time, as more and more information became available to what he had done has now risen up to 8th. Biden may be in the same boat so to speak.

For me, I liked the fact Biden was/is "boring". It was a great change of pace from the previous President. One would hope Biden's presidency will look positive in the history books. We have seen upward movements from both Bush Presidents, Gerald Ford, and Jimmy Carter. History books have looked more favorable to LBJ and Ulysses Grant.

I’d say this election was basically a draw. Yes, Trump won, but won by a slim 1.6 points, the GOP lost 2 house seats while gaining 4 senate seats. Only one of those four senate gains was in a swing state, the other three in solid red states. It’s like a football game in which both times are tied 30-30 at the end of 60 minutes of play, it goes into overtime where one team kicks a field goal and wins the game. Then hollers about how bad they smashed the other team. Thus according to many republicans, a mandate. Yes, it was a win, but not a dominating mandate, landslide win.

Wasn't there a poll that stated that 49% of Americans think Trump is a fascist?

 

[skews13.]

We prefer a shit person to represent us. That makes us a shit people.

“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”​

― H.L. Mencken,

 

[Perotista]

For me, I liked the fact Biden was/is "boring". It was a great change of pace from the previous President. One would hope Biden's presidency will look positive in the history books. We have seen upward movements from both Bush Presidents, Gerald Ford, and Jimmy Carter. History books have looked more favorable to LBJ and Ulysses Grant.


Wasn't there a poll that stated that 49% of Americans think Trump is a fascist?

If there was a poll like that, I never seen it. But I have Google handy. There more to the poll/article than just being a fascist.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-fascist-concerns-poll/story?id=115083795

Yet, the man received 49.9% of the vote. 56% of all Americans have a negative/unfavorable view of Trump, there must have been quite a few of those who didn’t like Trump voting for him.

 

[BabaVoss]

“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”​

― H.L. Mencken,

Looks we are going to be there come Jan 20.

 

[L88]

You can read the full article here. Here are some snippets on key points:

This is a terrific, but sad great read. Quite frankly, I cannot disagree with a single word he wrote. Do you guys think human decency is dead?

It started with Senator Harry Reid. But yes, Trump has taken it to a whole new level.

 

[Corbell]

Yes. AFTER Trump and his cronies riled them up, repeatedly using words like FIGHT and COMBAT many times, told them they had been lied to repeatedly, and threatened that they would lose their country if they didn’t “fight like hell”. Anyone could see it if they had their eyes open.

Did you read through the sequence of events building up to Jan 6th? This event had been in the works for months, planned and orchestrated. It is so obvious.

Standard partisan rhetoric used to describe normal partisan political rallies and protests.

Your pretense of not knowing this, is silly. Or would be if the lie you are supporting was not being used to divide this country.

You are a fervent cult member. Does it hurt?

YOu are teh one engaged in complete nonsense.

 

[Corbell]

Again , you don't know enough to realize what was posted to you. I can tell because you cannot deny the facts he posted. You have not posted any actual true statement regarding the facts he posted.

Here is a true fact for you. Political organizers talk like that about normal, peaceful political rallies and work, ALL THE TIME.

You ever hear of the WAR ON POVERTY?

You do realize that that was actually not a real war, right? It was "Waged" by government drones handing out money, not by army guys launching attacks with guns and tanks, right?


Your positions is absurd.


STOP BEING SILLY.

 

[BabaVoss]

Standard partisan rhetoric used to describe normal partisan political rallies and protests.

There is nothing normal about an insurrection.
There is nothing normal about a convicted felon being elected as President.
There is nothing normal about trump.
This is not going to end well.
The only question is who trumpers will blame this time when trump fails again.

 

[Corbell]

There is nothing normal about an insurrection.
....

YOu are citing quotes from people discussing and organizing the RALLY, and trying to pretend they are planning and discussing the RIOT.


That is your whole schtick here.


YOu have nothing but dishonesty, to support, everything that has been done since in regards to the riot.

 

[soap box]

Here is a true fact for you. Political organizers talk like that about normal, peaceful political rallies and work, ALL THE TIME.

That's not a fact. You interpreted that without observable and measurable evidence. This shows you don't know what a fact is.

You still have not addressed any actual true statement regarding the facts our fellow member posted. That's because you don't know anything about what happened.

Now I can show an example of a fact. Trump refused to call the National guard and he refused to tell the rioters to leave the building. We know this from eyewitness sworn testimony of multiple white house staff.

We also know the purpose of the riot was to delay the Electoral College. We have the voicemail from Giuliani that proves this.

That's significant because none of the state legislators had agreed to discard their EC delegations , and that was due to the fact that trump had every opportunity to present evidence of fraud but he never did because there never was any.

You ever hear of the WAR ON POVERTY?

You do realize that that was actually not a real war, right? It was "Waged" by government drones handing out money, not by army guys launching attacks with guns and tanks, right?

That's a non sequitur - false equivalence whataboutism. You jumped to a faulty conclusion without saying what figure of speech you're comparing to "war". You are making another vague claim that ordinary preparation for a political rally would somehow include reversing the valid and true results of the vote and with the explicit intent to prevent a peaceful and lawful transfer of power.

Your positions is absurd.

How would be able to tell that if you don't know any facts about this?

STOP BEING SILLY.

You posted "silly" because you don't know the truth.

 

[Corbell]

That's not a fact. You interpreted that without observable and measurable evidence. This shows you don't know what a fact is.

It is a fact. Political organizers talk like that about normal, peaceful political rallies and work, ALL THE TIME. Your denial is just you shitcannign your credibility.

You still have not addressed any actual true statement regarding the facts our fellow member posted. That's because you don't know anything about what happened.

Now I can show an example of a fact. Trump refused to call the National guard and he refused to tell the rioters to leave the building. We know this from eyewitness sworn testimony of multiple white house staff.

Neither of those is really the president's job.

.....


That's a non sequitur - false equivalence whataboutism. You jumped to a faulty conclusion without saying what figure of speech you're comparing to "war". You are making another vague claim that ordinary preparation for a political rally would somehow include reversing the valid and true results of the vote and with the explicit intent to prevent a peaceful and lawful transfer of power.

Nope. Very good comparison. People using "fighting" or "War" sounding rhetoric to discuss normal political activity.

Your stonewalling is dishonest and robs you of credibility.

 

[soap box]

It is a fact. Political organizers talk like that about normal, peaceful political rallies and work, ALL THE TIME. Your denial is just you shitcannign your credibility.

You're saying normal political party rally preparations are intended to push a self coup. You are uninformed.

Neither of those is really the president's job.

And you are unwilling to say why trump refused to stop the riot and why he refused to call the NG. You can explain that now. Why did trump refuse to stop the riot and refuse to call the NG?

Nope. Very good comparison. People using "fighting" or "War" sounding rhetoric to discuss normal political activity.

Overturning the legitimate results of an election and preventing the constitutional transfer of power is not a normal practice.

If overturning the results of a free and fair election is normal, when did happen before J6? No president has ever prevented the transfer of power until trump did. There is no point in your vague claim here because you're posting from your imagination and you are unable to address the facts.

Your stonewalling is dishonest and robs you of credibility.

You say that because you don't know any true facts.

 

[Corbell]

You're saying normal political party rally preparations are intended to push a self coup. You are uninformed.

YOu ignored my actual point, and offered a strawman and then reasserted your conclusion. Then you insulted me.

That is, lets see... at least three logical fallacies. And at no time did you come close to a valid point.

And you are unwilling to say why trump refused to stop the riot and why he refused to call the NG. You can explain that now. Why did trump refuse to stop the riot and refuse to call the NG?

You are drifting further and further from reality. Capitol security is the type of thing you plan before a riot, not during. Trump offered national guard units BEFORE the riot.

Stop the riot? That implies that Trump was in control of the riot.

FALSE.

Overturning the legitimate results of an election and preventing the constitutional transfer of power is not a normal practice.

Again, you ignored my actual point, and offerend a strawman based on your spin on events. Good stonewalling and gaslighting.

If overturning the results of a free and fair election is normal, when did happen before J6? No president has ever prevented the transfer of power until trump did. There is no point in your vague claim here because you're posting from your imagination and you are unable to address the facts.

ANd more strawmen.

You say that because you don't know any true facts.

The more desperate you become, the more you look like you are losing this debate.

 

[soap box]

YOu ignored my actual point, and offered a strawman and then reasserted your conclusion. Then you insulted me.

That is, lets see... at least three logical fallacies. And at no time did you come close to a valid point.

Your point apparently was that normal political party rally preparations are intended to push a self coup. But you didn't say which president attempted a self coup before trump tried to prevent the peaceful and constitutional transfer of power after a free and fair election. No other president did that, and that's why the preparation for the riot was intentional and totally different than ordinary campaign events.

You are drifting further and further from reality. Capitol security is the type of thing you plan before a riot, not during. Trump offered national guard units BEFORE the riot.

Who called the crowd to come to DC? Who lured them with lies about election fraud? J6 could not possibly happened without trump and his lies of election fraud. That means there was never before a president who attempted a self coup and that's why J6 wasn't normal.

I'm sure you noticed that you can't answer my question. Why did trump refuse to stop the riot and refuse to call the NG?

Stop the riot? That implies that Trump was in control of the riot.

FALSE.

You are not informed enough to answer the question. Why did he refuse to use the broadcast booth in the white house and why did he refuse to call the NG to stop the riot?

Again, you ignored my actual point, and offerend a strawman based on your spin on events. Good stonewalling and gaslighting.

You said J6 was a normal political event but you can't say when a president attempted a self coup before. You can name a previous example now.

ANd more strawmen.

You said J6 was normal.
So tell me when a self coup was attempted before trump tried it.

The more desperate you become, the more you look like you are losing this debate.

Learn the facts and you will realize what I'm saying.

 

[Corbell]

Your point apparently was that normal political party rally preparations are intended to push a self coup..

That is not what I said. YOu are misrepresenting what I said to dodge my point, which you know you cannot refute.

Who called the crowd to come to DC? Who lured them with lies about election fraud? J6 could not possibly happened without trump and his lies of election fraud. That means there was never before a president who attempted a self coup and that's why J6 wasn't normal.

Calling the rally to dc does not make Trump responsible for the riot.

I'm sure you noticed that you can't answer my question. Why did trump refuse to stop the riot and refuse to call the NG?

I can't read his mind across space and time, and neither can you. You asking me to, is you trying to use a LOADED QUESTION FALLACY to support your position, because you can't support your position honestly.

You are not informed enough to answer the question. Why did he refuse to use the broadcast booth in the white house and why did he refuse to call the NG to stop the riot?

Your request for me to read him mind across space and time is not rational.

You said J6 was a normal political event....

I did not say that. I said that the rally and the rhetoric used in organizing the rally was normal. YOu are being deeply dishonest.

You said J6 was normal.

Calling for a rally to put political pressure on people, is normal. YOur pretense otherwise is dishonest.

So tell me when a self coup was attempted before trump tried it.

I like the way you build an strawman ontop of dishonesty. It shows that on some level you know that your postion is completely false.

Learn the facts and you will realize what I'm saying.

Your gaslighting needs work.

 

[soap box]

That is not what I said. YOu are misrepresenting what I said to dodge my point, which you know you cannot refute.




Calling the rally to dc does not make Trump responsible for the riot.




I can't read his mind across space and time, and neither can you. You asking me to, is you trying to use a LOADED QUESTION FALLACY to support your position, because you can't support your position honestly.





Your request for me to read him mind across space and time is not rational.






I did not say that. I said that the rally and the rhetoric used in organizing the rally was normal. YOu are being deeply dishonest.




Calling for a rally to put political pressure on people, is normal. YOur pretense otherwise is dishonest.




I like the way you build an strawman ontop of dishonesty. It shows that on some level you know that your postion is completely false.




Your gaslighting needs work.

You wrote on post #239:

Political organizers talk like that about normal, peaceful political rallies and work, ALL THE TIME.

J6 was never normal. It was political and trump said "peaceful" once, but trump is the only man who tried to stop the constitutional and peaceful transfer of power in this country.

It was widely known that there would be a protest at the Capitol and a small fraction of that number intended on getting inside. Some fraction of those who got inside the Capitol were threatening enough to require an evacuation. That's not what should have happened legally but it could have been stopped before 3 pm.

When a person in power defies a legal or constitutional mandate in order to illegally remain in power, that is the definition of a self coup, and J6 is the best example in history. You have not answered the following:

Why didn't trump attempt to stop the riot, and why didn't he call for mobilization of the NG?


How could J6 possibly have happened without trump?


And other questions you should address-


Did the rioters understand that no state was willing to rescind their EC delegation?

Who were the rioters supporting?



When did Giuliani try to call Tuberville to tell him to keep the delay going for two or three more days and why was he asking?

0:33 -

 

[ncguy]

calling a "stop the steal" rally and saying to 'fight like hell" in a venue a short distance from the place electoral votes were being counted, on the exact same day...sure, trump had NO IDEA it might possibly turn into what it did.

sure, if that's your story and you want to stick with it, go for it.


Cassidy Hutchinson, who was the top aide to Trump’s chief of staff Mark Meadows, testified this afternoon that, during Trump's Jan. 6 rally at the Ellipse that devolved into a war zone, Trump was angry attendance was not at capacity. After being warned that Secret Service was denying entry to people who tried to pass through magnetometers armed with guns, bear spray, knives and brass knuckles, Trump delivered new instructions to those working the checkpoints. “I don’t effing care that they have weapons. They are not here to hurt me. Take the effing mags away. Let my people in. They can march to the Capitol from here," Trump said, according to Hutchinson.

well, trump is certainly very concerned with possible armed violence in support of his claimed stolen election....or not.


the whole "stolen election" nonsense from republicans was a disgusting anti-american charade. The courts were the appropriate avenue, and they tried, and lost over 60 times. Anyone supporting trump and his stolen election claims is anti-democracy.

 

[Corbell]

You wrote on post #239:


J6 was never normal. It was political and trump said "peaceful" once, but trump is the only man who tried to stop the constitutional and peaceful transfer of power in this country.

It was widely known that there would be a protest at the Capitol and a small fraction of that number intended on getting inside. Some fraction of those who got inside the Capitol were threatening enough to require an evacuation. That's not what should have happened legally but it could have been stopped before 3 pm.

When a person in power defies a legal or constitutional mandate in order to illegally remain in power, that is the definition of a self coup, and J6 is the best example in history. You have not answered the following:

Why didn't trump attempt to stop the riot, and why didn't he call for mobilization of the NG?


How could J6 possibly have happened without trump?


And other questions you should address-


Did the rioters understand that no state was willing to rescind their EC delegation?

Who were the rioters supporting?



When did Giuliani try to call Tuberville to tell him to keep the delay going for two or three more days and why was he asking?

0:33 -

Your words make no sense. You claim that the political rally was not normal and then to support that false claim, you make another false claim that Trump tried to stop the peaceful transfer of power.


Trump's elector plan was a peaceful and legal attempt to game the system. Much like Al Gore did in florida with his selective recount.


The riot was not part of the plan. YOu are conflating different issues and adding in, complete garbage to justify your... exaggerated hysteria about Trump.


Trump is a populist President who just kicked your ass. It is OUR TURN to have OUR interests represented.


That you feel so upset, is YOU not wanting to have a constitutional and peaceful transfer of power.


This is not the end of democracy. This is us having our turn. YOU thinking that you should get to win always, is more of a threat to democracy and peace, than Trump.

 

[ncguy]

Your words make no sense. You claim that the political rally was not normal and then to support that false claim, you make another false claim that Trump tried to stop the peaceful transfer of power.


Trump's elector plan was a peaceful and legal attempt to game the system. Much like Al Gore did in florida with his selective recount.


The riot was not part of the plan. YOu are conflating different issues and adding in, complete garbage to justify your... exaggerated hysteria about Trump.


Trump is a populist President who just kicked your ass. It is OUR TURN to have OUR interests represented.


That you feel so upset, is YOU not wanting to have a constitutional and peaceful transfer of power.


This is not the end of democracy. This is us having our turn. YOU thinking that you should get to win always, is more of a threat to democracy and peace, than Trump.

the elector plan was legal? how so? who ruled it was legal?

On December 6, 2023, a Clark County, Nevada, grand jury indicted six Republican party officials, including the chair of the Nevada Republican Party, on two felony charges each of submitting fraudulent documents to state and local officials.

The cases against fake electors and where they stand - CREW | Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington

As part of Donald Trump and his allies’ nationwide effort to undermine the 2020 presidential election, 84 total fake electors across seven states signed false electoral certificates claiming that Trump won the election in their states. As of June 2024, fake electors from Arizona, Georgia...

www.citizensforethics.org

As of July 2024, fake electors from Arizona, Georgia, Michigan and Nevada have been charged with crimes

 

[BabaVoss]

Your words make no sense.

I thought @soap box was extremely clear.

You claim that the political rally was not normal...

It was NOT a normal political rally. It was intentionally designed to foment violence.

and then to support that false claim,

It was and is supported by facts you choose to remain blind to.

you make another false claim that Trump tried to stop the peaceful transfer of power.

He did. IT will remain a historic orange stain on our history.

Trump's elector plan was a peaceful and legal attempt to game the system.

It was fraud.

Much like Al Gore did in florida with his selective recount.

The fake elector scheme bears no similarity to a recount.

The riot was not part of the plan.

See posts 211,213, and 214, where I listed a sequence of events leading up to the insurrection. (Better yet, go to the linked reference - there is a lot more relevant information) The conclusion that violence was the intended outcome - at the capitol, on that specific day - in order to delay the official confirmation of Joe Biden’s win is inescapable.

You are actively choosing intentional ignorance.

YOu are conflating different issues and adding in, complete garbage to justify your... exaggerated hysteria about Trump.

Uh huh.

Trump is a populist President who just kicked your ass.

He barely won, and is holding a small majority. An ass-kicking it was not. Most Americans find him loathsome. He just ranked at or very near the bottom on virtually every respected presidential ranking. Th good news is he can only improve or stay near last place. My guess is he does the latter.

It is OUR TURN to have OUR interests represented.

You've had them represented all along, as intended. Now you have a majority of the power. Let's see what trump';s chaos cabinet does with it.

 

[Corbell]

the elector plan was legal? how so? who ruled it was legal?
....

It was a legal tactic, involving laws and gaming the system.

That was teh plan, not the riot which was an unforeseen fluke.




The left likes to play very dishonest games, such as referencing Trump's plan to challenge the election.

There was such a plan. It was very convuluted and invovled a lot of political and legal manuvers and blah, blah, blah.


BUT the left likes to say "plan" of which there was one, but then dishonestly imply that the RIOT was part of that, when it clearly wasn't.


They are good for such dishonest shit. Since their ideas and policies are completely failed, and dangerous, they have to invent other ways to get people to vote for them.

 

[Corbell]

...


It was NOT a normal political rally. It was intentionally designed to foment violence.
...

Stopped reading here. It clearly was NOT designed to foment violence.

Oh, and please don't bore me by citing the fighting rhetoric. That has been dealth with, crushingly.