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I am going to use a legal definition: 18 U.S. Code § 2340 - Definitions | LII / Legal Information Institute
You could make a potentially make a case for C, though I am not sure. However, the hijackers where not "acting under the color of law", so under 18 U.S. Code § 2340, it would not be considered torture. I am not really sure how it would matter however. The hijackers are dead, so prosecuting them is kinda wasted effort, and trying to use what they did as moral justification for what was done later would fail, and miserably.
By your argument here, drug cartels have not tortured anyone (despite the fact that I've seen video of about a dozen headless bodies hung upside down while their heads were lined up in a neat row next to a wall). Those journalists who had their heads cut off were not tortured either. Nobody any civilian does to another civilian could ever be torture, no matter what. Is that you your position?
I think the point of the topic (on the radio, not your post) was to remind people of 9/11 and thus make people so angry they abandon reason in favor of their emotions, which cause them to wish endless amounts of pain and suffering for the people who perpetrate such acts. There's nothing to be gained by turning our country into a monster because the only way some of us are able to cope with our anger is to lash out with cruelty and violence. Terrorists cause pain and suffering because they feel that there is no other way for them to accomplish their goal. There is no good reason, but we don't have any reason at all. So I'm going to make a radical suggestion: let's not act like morons.
I think the point of the topic (on the radio, not your post) was to remind people of 9/11 and thus make people so angry they abandon reason in favor of their emotions, which cause them to wish endless amounts of pain and suffering for the people who perpetrate such acts. There's nothing to be gained by turning our country into a monster because the only way some of us are able to cope with our anger is to lash out with cruelty and violence. Terrorists cause pain and suffering because they feel that there is no other way for them to accomplish their goal. There is no good reason, but we don't have any reason at all. So I'm going to make a radical suggestion: let's not act like morons.
Under that definition, correct. That makes what was done to them no less heinous. To me, the issue is not what specific law they broke, but that they committed very heinous crimes.
Why did you even bring that particular law into it if the law is not the issue? Torture has a much broader commonly understood definition that is no less valid and, in fact, more valid since this is not about charging anyone with a crime.
Abandon reason? WTH? I'll tell you who is abandoning reason pal. They are those who have forgotten 9/11 was basically an inside job because
9/11 was performed by those who were here on expired Visas under Bill Clinton while taking flying lessons.
No, none of the victims on the plane were subject to torture, and the definition is inapplicable to the victims in the towers.
This came up on talk radio and I thought it an interesting question because I haven't ever thought about it in those terms. Was it torture to be on one of those high jacked planes? How about being trapped in the WTC towers were the heat and smoke was so intense that several chose to leap to their deaths instead? I think a strong argument can be made that they were not only tortured, they were tortured to death. What do you think?
Attaching the poll now.
I don't think you know how inside job works. Government ineptitude does not an inside job make. Basically or otherwise. Sort of like, how what Obama says, and what you think he said, are not the same thing.
You know what I've always found interesting? It's how often we're told we need to understand that terrorism is simply a backlash or a reaction to any number of things (all things we're doing and/or have done wrong), yet when terrorism occurs, often the same people will be incensed at the backlash or reaction that terrorism creates.
WW2 bombs were mass killing, just the same as 9/11. The WW2 bombings were not mass murder, because killing done to military targets serving a nation we had issued a declaration of war against is not murder.
Torture, killing, murder, these words all have definitions.
Sure they were. They were subjected to a great deal of mental torture. Those people knew what was happening to them. Think of those on Fight 93. They knew what happened to the other 3 planes, which is why they fought back. You can't say that wasn't mental torture. It was.
1) “torture” means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control; (2) “severe mental pain or suffering” means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from— (A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;
The terrorists were waterboarded for 10 seconds. Yes, that was torture. This was equally as bad if not substantially worse.
Sure they were. They were subjected to a great deal of mental torture. Those people knew what was happening to them. Think of those on Fight 93. They knew what happened to the other 3 planes, which is why they fought back. You can't say that wasn't mental torture. It was.
1) “torture” means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control; (2) “severe mental pain or suffering” means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from— (A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;
The terrorists were waterboarded for 10 seconds. Yes, that was torture. This was equally as bad if not substantially worse.
I've highlighted the relevant words there.
The OP's argument is utter garbage. By the same logic, the U.S. "tortured" Nazi soldiers to death when we bombed the buildings they were located in.
Torture is a deliberate intentional intention to inflicting suffering on another human being. Most ways of violently killing people also lead to suffering, but that is a byproduct, not the purpose of the act. 9/11 was mass murder, not torture.
If you completely redefine the word torture to render it entirely meaningless, then yes, they were tortured.
So there should be no reaction to terrorism? We're responsible for creating it any way so no big deal? I doubt you'll be able to sell that to many people but good luck.
9/11 occurred because of a series of restrictions created over the course of over twenty years, Democrats and Republicans alike, that made it impossible for the FBI to share with the CIA on intelligence. They could connect the dots after the fact but what the Hell good does that do after the damage was done?
When you lose 3000 lives in such a way with threats of more to come, it becomes and extraordinary situation that requires extraordinary measures.
When you lose that perspective pal then you have lost it all.
This came up on talk radio and I thought it an interesting question because I haven't ever thought about it in those terms. Was it torture to be on one of those high jacked planes? How about being trapped in the WTC towers were the heat and smoke was so intense that several chose to leap to their deaths instead? I think a strong argument can be made that they were not only tortured, they were tortured to death. What do you think?
Attaching the poll now.
This came up on talk radio and I thought it an interesting question because I haven't ever thought about it in those terms. Was it torture to be on one of those high jacked planes? How about being trapped in the WTC towers were the heat and smoke was so intense that several chose to leap to their deaths instead? I think a strong argument can be made that they were not only tortured, they were tortured to death. What do you think?
Attaching the poll now.
This came up on talk radio and I thought it an interesting question because I haven't ever thought about it in those terms. Was it torture to be on one of those high jacked planes? How about being trapped in the WTC towers were the heat and smoke was so intense that several chose to leap to their deaths instead? I think a strong argument can be made that they were not only tortured, they were tortured to death.Attaching the poll now.What do you think?
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