• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Wendy Davis Filibuster

nota bene said:
I'm not aware of anybody talking about infanticide.
Click to expand...

When we know babies can be born and survive at 21 weeks saying you can abort up till 24 weeks gets preety close.
 
nota bene said:
I'm not aware of anybody talking about infanticide.
Click to expand...

If you mean here in this thread specifically, yet, you are correct.

If you mean the pro-abortion camp on this forum in general, there's a lot of them.
 
YoungConserv said:
When we know babies can be born and survive at 21 weeks saying you can abort up till 24 weeks gets preety close.
Click to expand...

But doctors will rarely ever abort a fetus over 20 weeks gestation unless something medically or genetically is very wrong with the fetus or woman's life or long term health would be majorly affected.
 
minnie616 said:
But doctors will rarely ever abort a fetus over 20 weeks gestation unless something medically or genetically is very wrong with the fetus or woman's life or long term health would be majorly affected.
Click to expand...

Then why would you be opposed to Texas lowering the top of abortion limit from 24 to 20 ?
 
YoungConserv said:
Then why would you be opposed to Texas lowering the top of abortion limit from 24 to 20 ?
Click to expand...

I oppose the fact Texas wants to put extraordinary restrictions on the abortion clinics and the doctors which will shut down more than three fourths of the clinics they have in Texas.

As long as Texas would make exceptions for fetal abnormalities and the life or long term major health issues for the woman I am fine with a 20 week gestation limit.
 
YoungConserv said:
Then why would you be opposed to Texas lowering the top of abortion limit from 24 to 20 ?
Click to expand...

there are currently 40 abortion clinics in the state of texas right now.

if this anti abortion bill passes it will close all but 5 of them.

how are 5 abortion clinics possibly enough to handle the needs of a state the size of texas?
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
there are currently 40 abortion clinics in the state of texas right now.

if this anti abortion bill passes it will close all but 5 of them.

how are 5 abortion clinics possibly enough to handle the needs of a state the size of texas?
Click to expand...

That's because all but 5 do not meet the criteria for the health code requirements for a medical institution which they are. It's not meant to close them outright all they have to do is comply with a few regulations.
 
YoungConserv said:
That's because all but 5 do not meet the criteria for the health code requirements for a medical institution which they are. It's not meant to close them outright all they have to do is comply with a few regulations.
Click to expand...

It is meant to close them outright.
If a clinic does not perform surgical abortions ...only prescribes the abortion medication RU 486 which the woman takes at home why does the clinic have to surgical equipment a large surgery room that holds several assistants?
 
minnie616 said:
It is meant to close them outright.
If a clinic does not perform surgical abortions ...only prescribes the abortion medication RU 486 which the woman takes at home why does the clinic have to surgical equipment a large surgery room that holds several assistants?
Click to expand...
I think it's because it's not just a dispensary but a examination as well. Plus as planed parent hood goes I don't thing the government should fund a organization founded by eugenicists to deal with in the words of the founder the " negro problem"
 
Last edited:
From this article:
Abortion hardly has any complications, period.
We’re not revenue generators for hospitals. We don’t bring business to the hospital as abortion providers," Miller said.
Then there’s the provision of the bill that would require abortions to only be performed in facilities that meet the standards of an ambulatory surgical center, or ASC.

Miller has one of the five ASC abortion clinics already up and running in Texas. I took a tour of the San Antonio facility in April. Once we got past the lobby, the facility looked much more like an emergency room than a doctor’s office –including the bright red line that divides the sterile surgical suites from the rest of the center.

“And you see basically an operating room suite that looks like we’re doing brain surgery right. I mean, there’s giant lights on the wall. There’s a big operating room table. There’s a full anesthesia machine. This room is about three or four times the size of a procedure room that would be in an abortion facility," Miller said as we toured one of the clinic surgical suites.

Miller said ASCs, with physical requirements including wide doorways, separate janitors’ closets, and environmental controls that keep rooms cold and blankets warmed to specific temperatures, were created for surgeries.

“Abortion is a procedure. It’s not really a surgery. There’s not any incisions, there’s not any stitches.

The procedure itself takes maybe five or 10 minutes.

So it’s not like an operation that has multiple physicians where the patients knee is open or her belly is open for a sort of more invasive that this sort of ambulatory surgical center was really devised for," Miller said.

And then there’s the cost. Miller said it would have cost her one and a half million dollars to build the center she leases in San Antonio. And it took her six years to find an ASC that was about to close its doors so she could come in and lease it.

The facility costs her $40,000 more a month to operate than her other abortion clinics. She said if the abortion bill becomes law, the cost of upgrading abortion facilities will be too big and the number of clinics in Texas will drop from 42 to 5.
Click to expand...
Issue in Texas Abortion Debate: What's an Ambulatory Surgical Center? | KUT News
 
YoungConserv said:
I think it's because it's not just a dispensary but a examination as well. Plus as planed parent hood goes I don't thing the government should fund a organization founded by eugenics...
Click to expand...

That is just silly to equate planned panenthood with eugenics.

From this article:
Meanwhile, anti-choice legislators are touting these cuts as a way to wipe out the "abortion industry," but it turns out none of the 53 clinics that closed since September 2011 were providing abortions to begin with.
None of the Planned Parenthood clinics formerly involved with the Women's Health Program provided abortions, either—Texas has never allowed abortion clinics to participate in WHP.
And under the Hyde Amendment, public health providers can't use federal funding to administer abortions, anyway.
"Ironically, this whole conversation is about abortion services, and yet clinics providing abortions in this state were untouched by these cuts," says Wheat.
Click to expand...

Charts: This Is What Happens When You Defund Planned Parenthood | Mother Jones
 
YoungConserv said:
I think it's because it's not just a dispensary but a examination as well.
Click to expand...

Then they need a medically approved exam room which they already have, not an amblatory surgical center.
 
Last edited:
YoungConserv said:
Planned parenthood was founded by Mather freaking Sanger one of the founders of the eugenics movement of course I can compare the two her idea was to use abortion to wipe the back race from the American gene pool!
Margaret Sanger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

Her movement was for birth control not abortion.
Planned parenthood was founded to help women have access to birth control.
Read the article you posted it says she wanted to put a stop to the back alley abortions by making birth control availible.
 
Last edited:
minnie616 said:
Her movement was for birth control not abortion.
Planned parenthood was founded to help women have access to birth on troll.
Click to expand...

Still in the goal of purging the black race from America.
 
Birth control helps reduce abortions. Women should have babies when they want to, when they can afford to - when they can plan to do so.
 
minnie616 said:
False, she wanted women to have healthier lives and be on a more equal footing.
Click to expand...

"Birth control must lead ultimately to a cleaner race."

April1932 Birthcontrol review.

"We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."
Women, morality and birth control 1922

Do I need to cite her more?
 
nota bene said:
Read up, Minnie, on Margaret Sanger and Malthus. You might be interested in these Sanger quotes on eugenics too: http://blackquillandink.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/margaret-sanger-quotes.pdf
Click to expand...

Sanger promoted birth control because she blamed her own mother's death on too many pregnancies.

She did believe in birth control was a natural type of eugenics women could use to try to keep their children free from proverty and disease.

Her grandson said once that his grandmother , “believed that women wanted their children to be free of poverty and disease, that women were natural eugenicists, and that birth control was the panacea to accomplish this.”

Margaret Louise Higgins Sanger (1879 – 1966) was an American activist born in 1879 in Corning, New York. Sanger was one of eleven children born to an Irish-Catholic immigrant working class family. Her mother, Anne Purcell Higgins died of tuberculosis and cervical cancer at the age of 50 having born the strain of 11 pregnancies and seven stillbirths. As the story goes, Margaret lashed out at her father over her mother’s coffin that he was responsible for Anne’s death due to so many pregnancies.
<SNIP>
Here was where she saw the lives of poor immigrant women. Without effective contraceptives many of these women, when faced with another unwanted pregnancy, resorted to five-dollar back-alley abortions or attempted to self-terminate their pregnancies. After botched abortions Margaret was called in to care for the women. After watching the suffering and trauma so many women experienced, Sanger began to shift her attention away from nursing to the need for better contraceptives.
<SNIP>
She began dreaming of a “magic pill” to be used to control pregnancy. “No woman can call herself free until she can choose consciously whether she will or will not be a mother,” Sanger said.
<SNIP>
In 1921 she founded the American Birth Control League, the forerunner to Planned Parenthood and she spent the next thirty years trying to bring safe and effective birth control to the American woman.
<SNIP>
In 1951 Sanger met Gregory Pincus, an expert in human reproduction. Now all she needed was the money to make her vision happen and she found that in heiress Katherine McCormick. Pincus partnered with Dr. John Rock and the collaboration led to the FDA approval of Enovid, the first oral contraceptive in 1960.
<SNIP>
Sanger also faced controversy over her association with eugenics. Sanger’s grandson, Alexander Sanger, chair of the International Planned Parenthood stated that his grandmother “believed that women wanted their children to be free of poverty and disease, that women were natural eugenicists, and that birth control was the panacea to accomplish this.”
With the invention of the “magic pill” Margaret Sanger accomplished her life-long goal of bringing safe, affordable, and effective contraception to the masses. Not only did she see the pill realized, but four years later, at the age of 81, Margaret Sanger witnessed the undoing of Comstock Laws. In the 1965 Supreme Court case Griswold v. Connecticut, the court ruled that the private use of contraceptives was a constitutional right. When Sanger passed away a year later, after more than half a century of fighting for the rights of women to control their own fertility, she died knowing she had done what she set out to do.
Click to expand...

Margaret Sanger – Mother of Modern Contraception | Saints, Sisters, and Sluts
 
Last edited:
Margaret Sanger's own words:

"We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don't want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."

-- Margaret Sanger. The Pivot of Civilization , 1922. Chapter on "The of Charity," pages 116, 122, and 189. Swarthmore College Library edition.

"Our failure to segregate morons who are increasing and multiplying... demonstrates our foolhardy and extravagant sentimentalism ... [Philanthropists] encourage the healthier and more normal sections of the world to shoulder the burden of unthinking and indiscriminate fecundity of others; which brings with it, as I think the reader must agree, a dead weight of human waste. Instead of decreasing and aiming to eliminate the stocks that are most detrimental to the future of the race and the world, it tends to render them to a menacing degree dominant ... We are paying for, and even submitting to, the dictates of an ever-increasing, unceasingly spawning class of human beings who never should have been born at all."

-- Margaret Sanger's December 19, 1939 letter to Dr. Clarence Gamble, 255 Adams Street, Milton, Massachusetts. Original source: Sophia Smith Collection, Smith College, North Hampton, Massachusetts. Also described in Linda Gordon's Woman's Body, Woman's Right: A Social History of Birth Control in America . New York: Grossman Publishers, 1976.

http://blackquillandink.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/margaret-sanger-quotes.pdf

These are just the first two quotes from the link. There are others that do go on about the "unfit" for procreation.
 
minnie616 said:
Sanger promoted birth control because she blamed her own mother's death on too many pregnancies.

She did believe in birth control was a natural type of eugenics women could use to try to keep their children free from proverty and disease.

Her grandson said once that his grandmother , “believed that women wanted their children to be free of poverty and disease, that women were natural eugenicists, and that birth control was the panacea to accomplish this.”



Margaret Sanger – Mother of Modern Contraception | Saints, Sisters, and Sluts
Click to expand...
Are you really gonna try and defend this vile women?
 
"Vile" is a charitable word. I was thinking more of "evil."
 
nota bene said:
Margaret Sanger's own words:

"We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don't want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."

-- Margaret Sanger. The Pivot of Civilization , 1922. Chapter on "The of Charity," pages 116, 122, and 189. Swarthmore College Library edition....
Click to expand...

From the following article:

Sometimes students can throw you a curve ball.

I was having a discussion in class yesterday about Margaret Sanger's role in the birth control movement when one of my students observed she was also a proponent of eugenics. That wasn't the curve ball -- I already knew that and we had a discussion about what that meant. However, he then went on to suggest
that Sanger was a racist who wanted to use birth control to reduce the African-American population. That stopped me cold -- I had no specific response, other than to say I would look into it.

What I discovered is that this has become a huge right-wing meme on the internet.
I was literally overwhelmed with the number of blog posts which vehemently asserted this to be a fact. This has obviously been sparked because of controversies over Planned Parenthood and abortion (although ironically, Sanger herself was opposed to abortion).

It apparently stems from two extremely slender pieces of "evidence":

-She was involved in the "Negro Project" which was organized to help provide birth control to African-American women.. During the debate within the Birth Control Federation of America (which was sponsoring the project) Sanger argued very strongly that there should be African-American leadership in the Project.
A single Sanger quote relating to this debate seems to be the basis for almost all the discussion on the internet of Sanger being racist: "we do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."

This has been interpreted by some people (like Angela Davis) as proof that the project was actually a secret conspiracy to exterminate African-Americans (I find it a bit ironic that conservatives are, perhaps unwittingly, agreeing with Davis diagnosis of a white conspiracy).

In fact, in the context of the debate Sanger was having with other members of the Birth Control Federation, the real meaning was almost certainly that she believed that black leadership was necessary to prevent the mistaken belief that the purpose of the project was racist.
In another quote from this debate Sanger stated: "I do not believe that this project should be directed or run by white medical men. The Federation should direct it with the guidance and assistance of the colored group..." Sanger herself said of the Negro Project (which was supported by prominent African-American civil rights activists like W.E.B. DuBois and Mary Bethune McLeod) that it was designed to help:

"a group notoriously underprivileged and handicapped to a large measure by a ‘caste' system that operates as an added weight upon their efforts to get a fair share of the better things in life. To give them the means of helping themselves is perhaps the richest gift of all. We believe birth control knowledge brought to this group, is the most direct, constructive aid that can be given them to improve their immediate situation."

Every quote from Sanger that I've been able to find suggests that she was in fact extremely sympathetic to the plight of minority groups like African-Americans.
Click to expand...

read more:

Daily Kos: Margaret Sanger, Planned Parenthood, and Racism
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom