Wearing a mask is for smug liberals. Refusing to is for reckless Republicans.

[Rogue Valley]

While the virus is contagious with vulnerable people, it's not as deadly as the fear mongers are reporting.

That is disinformation. The R[sub]0[/sub] value is the same - 5.7 - for everyone.

 

[Tahuyaman]

That is disinformation. The R[sub]0[/sub] value is the same - 5.7 - for everyone.

Not everyone is vulnerable.

 

[Thoreau72]

That can only be true if you define bad decisions as those made 'under fear' but then ignore plenty of decisions that look an awful lot like that as good decisions using reason and evidence.

:roll:

Sounds like sophistry to me counselor. :doh

Decisions made under emotional stress are almost always bad decisions. It's common knowledge.

Good decisions are made when calm, after long consideration.

 

[JasperL]

Hello Jasper--I did not say that, you did.

The point is that once infected, the chances of death are very low. And he was mid 60s, infected when his son came home from California.

OK, but if that's not your point, then there's no reason to care about your anecdotal evidence, that friend or the other 20 people you think might have gotten CV19. We all know about 99% of those infected do not die. We can also do some math and know that those 'low' odds might mean 2 million dead Americans with widespread infections (60% or about 200 million infected).

 

[Thoreau72]

That is anecdotal. The data says over 1,000 Americans a day are currently dying from COVID.

Maybe you like playing Russian roulette, but most folks don't and also have a strong aversion to infecting others.

Who gives a good goddamn?

 

[Tahuyaman]

you veering off course here. I asked why it isn't true that every little bit helps

That's wishful thinking. That's kind of like saying that this is all worth it if it saves just one life.

 

[Rogue Valley]

That's wishful thinking. That's kind of like saying that this is all worth it if it saves just one life.

Perhaps you would feel differently if that one life was you father, mother, sister, brother, son, daughter.

 

[JasperL]

Sounds like sophistry to me counselor. :doh

Decisions made under emotional stress are almost always bad decisions. It's common knowledge.

Good decisions are made when calm, after long consideration.

I'm not sure where you get that conclusion. Fight or flight, for example, is an evolutionary adaptation to a perceived threat. That rabbit that runs when approached by a predator makes a decision under great stress, and running is a good decision, versus the alternative of calmly weighing the options as the coyote or fox (in this area) makes him a meal.

And here the decision to lock down was made after weeks of watching it spread and using the data we had at that time. At least in my area the decision makers appeared calm and appeared to have weighed the evidence over a fairly long period of time.

 

[Thoreau72]

OK, but if that's not your point, then there's no reason to care about your anecdotal evidence, that friend or the other 20 people you think might have gotten CV19. We all know about 99% of those infected do not die. We can also do some math and know that those 'low' odds might mean 2 million dead Americans with widespread infections (60% or about 200 million infected).

Yes I know that my evidence is anecdotal and that's why I mentioned it.

I hope we're not talking past each other. If we know 99% do not die, why all the fear? is my point. Really in that sense it's like every 100 year flu here in the US and world.

Guns, Germs and Steel is how Jared Diamond explained man's evolution. This too will pass and people will have antibodies. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger they say. eace

 

[Aberro]

COVID has a R[sub]0[/sub] value of 5.7.

About 4x more infectious than the seasonal flu.

More propaganda.

Most people in the USA don’t live in NYC sardine cans.

I go where I want, when I want, and I don’t wear a mask like a scared rabbit, in fact, I was in Lowe’s today, 200 people, most wore no mask.

America’s work goes on despite the US governments panic over nothing.

You want to wear a mask, I don’t care.

 

[JasperL]

Who gives a good goddamn?

Exactly! Anecdotes, especially unverifiable claims from anonymous internet sources =/= compelling evidence. What allegedly happened to your friends has absolutely no bearing on the appropriate public policy response to CV19. You allegedly know 20 people infected, they're all fine, which tells us ONLY that....you allegedly know 20 people infected and they're all fine.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

I'm not sure where you get that conclusion. Fight or flight, for example, is an evolutionary adaptation to a perceived threat. That rabbit that runs when approached by a predator makes a decision under great stress, and running is a good decision, versus the alternative of calmly weighing the options as the coyote or fox (in this area) makes him a meal.

And here the decision to lock down was made after weeks of watching it spread and using the data we had at that time. At least in my area the decision makers appeared calm and appeared to have weighed the evidence over a fairly long period of time.

In North America the decision was made in a panic much like the rabbit. Not like the intelligent thinking and planning creatures were pretend to be

 

[Thoreau72]

I'm not sure where you get that conclusion. Fight or flight, for example, is an evolutionary adaptation to a perceived threat. That rabbit that runs when approached by a predator makes a decision under great stress, and running is a good decision, versus the alternative of calmly weighing the options as the coyote or fox (in this area) makes him a meal.

And here the decision to lock down was made after weeks of watching it spread and using the data we had at that time. At least in my area the decision makers appeared calm and appeared to have weighed the evidence over a fairly long period of time.

The numbers publicized by the government and media were wildly off target. The herd was in fear, and most of the time that results in a stampede.

 

[OldFatGuy]

In the ‘60s, protesters burned bras. In 2020, they might soon be burning masks.

And draft cards.

Around here most everyone is wearing a mask. However, most of the masks, bought from Target, Amazon, CVS, etc. claim protection from dust, pollen and not much else. Many are wearing homemade masks, made from material from old t-shirts, lingerie, cotton bandannas, sheets and pillow cases and so on. Recycling as part of the green thing. Not really more than illusion of protection against receiving or giving the virus that we are supposedly attempting to filter out of our daily lives. N95 and P100 masks offer the best protections, but try finding them on the open market. The tighter the thread count, the better the material for home made masks, but then only the wealthy count the threads in their sheets and they aren't likely to sacrifice those expensive sheets for face masks. No matter what kind of mask may be used, they need to fit right, or it is a wasted effort. Most do not fit correctly.

The paper and cotton disposable masks are expected to be worn once, and discarded, yet people wear the same mask for a month, as often as some change their underwear.

Why bother? Who is fooling who?

As I walked with Dog this afternoon, I passed people with masks around their chins as they drank coffee, smoked cigarettes, and ate pizza while walking on the streets. Maybe a third of the joggers taking advantage of great weather, wore masks. Few of those who I saw wearing masks had them fitted properly, for some of those masks with only elastic loops from the top corners to the ears, left the bottoms open and flapping. They all come in one size, and one size does not fit all.

The governments, local, state and federal can issue laws, rules and regulations, but they are not ensuring the manufacture of quality masks nor distributing them. Empty words, as usual.

When it was colder I was wearing old silk scarves from my motorcycle days for protection, and with their tight weaves they were far better than any of the masks I've seen people wearing, with exception of a few wearing old army surplus gas masks going back as far as WWI, maybe. But those silk scarves do not clean easily, and must be cleansed after a day of use. They are too insulating for warm weather. Now, with warmer weather, I'm using a reusable mask I bought from Amazon with changeable filters. I've got two, so I can wash the one I used for the day. My wife and grandkids have the same masks, and I hope they are doing them some good. However, we're running out of the filters, and those I ordered won't be here for another two weeks. Not soon enough. So we're washing the filters and reusing them, even tho that is not recommended.

All of what I've observed, I wonder if this is all lip service that won't accomplish much good.

 

[JasperL]

Yes I know that my evidence is anecdotal and that's why I mentioned it.

I hope we're not talking past each other. If we know 99% do not die, why all the fear? is my point. Really in that sense it's like every 100 year flu here in the US and world.

Guns, Germs and Steel is how Jared Diamond explained man's evolution. This too will pass and people will have antibodies. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger they say. eace

If only 1% die, that means an additional 1-3 million deaths in the U.S., many millions more very sick and hospitalized, a significant share of those we are now learning will have long term damage from the virus although it did not immediately kill them, hospitals would be overrun and systems would collapse, leading to more deaths from those that could be treated for CV19 and other ailments and emergencies but for lack of resources, and more.

In 1918 we had no way to deal with any of that because we lacked a basic understanding of disease, and had no ability to develop treatments or vaccines. Now we do, and delaying and slowing the spread long enough to find a treatment or vaccine saves lives in the short term, keeps systems from collapsing under the weight of a flood of patients, and very possibly saves up to millions of lives long term. That's why modern medicine is a good thing. We don't need to react to plagues like we did in the 1300s....

 

[Aberro]

Exactly! Anecdotes, especially unverifiable claims from anonymous internet sources =/= compelling evidence. What allegedly happened to your friends has absolutely no bearing on the appropriate public policy response to CV19. You allegedly know 20 people infected, they're all fine, which tells us ONLY that....you allegedly know 20 people infected and they're all fine.

CDC: 80,000 people died of flu last winter in the U.S. - STAT

Not anecdotal,

That was with a flu vaccine, your thoughts?

Did we shut down our jobs? Nope.

Why now?

 

[JasperL]

The numbers publicized by the government and media were wildly off target. The herd was in fear, and most of the time that results in a stampede.

There's no evidence for the bolded claim. Which "numbers" were wildly off and what are the correct "numbers"?

And your analogy still fails. The herd stampedes because evolution has taught them it's a protective and rational response to an imminent threat. Fight or flight is rational.

The analogy also fails here because it's, again, just not applicable unless you define decisions made in fear with those YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH. The decisions by roughly the entire world to treat CV19 as a serious threat deserving of a robust public policy response were made rationally after weeks of consideration, and weighing the evidence for and against those measures. They're being made now with the same deliberation, in many places to slowly reopen.

 

[JasperL]

CDC: 80,000 people died of flu last winter in the U.S. - STAT

Not anecdotal,

That was with a flu vaccine, your thoughts?

Did we shut down our jobs? Nope.

Why now?

That's about the 10,000th time that dumb talking point has been made on DP. If you want to discuss it, start a thread with your BUTWHABOUTISM and we can see if we can add something to the previous 9,999 times it's been raised, and proved stupid.

 

[Aberro]

There's no evidence for the bolded claim. Which "numbers" were wildly off and what are the correct "numbers"?

And your analogy still fails. The herd stampedes because evolution has taught them it's a protective and rational response to an imminent threat. Fight or flight is rational.

The analogy also fails here because it's, again, just not applicable unless you define decisions made in fear with those YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH. The decisions by roughly the entire world to treat CV19 as a serious threat deserving of a robust public policy response were made rationally after weeks of consideration, and weighing the evidence for and against those measures. They're being made now with the same deliberation, in many places to slowly reopen.

CDC: 80,000 people died of flu last winter in the U.S. - STAT

Did you know that?

If not, why not?

Did we shut down jobs? Nope, why not?

 

[Aberro]

That's about the 10,00th time that dumb talking point has been made on DP. If you want to discuss it, start a thread with your BUTWHABOUTISM and we can see if we can add something to the previous 9,999 times it's been raised, and proved stupid.

You did not answer the question.

I did start a thread about it, no answers, just like yours.

 

[RAMOSS]

It is not a lie, it is a fact, that once infected only a tiny percent die.

I already know 20 such individuals. Maybe the folks in Michigan do too? The stuff is in zoo animals, household pets, mink farms in Holland. At least in Florida it started in December to a friend of mine. Today he is fine. He didn't go to the hospital.

It depends on what your definition of 'tiny percent' I guess. 3.4 to 5% is not tiny is my estimate.

 

[Aberro]

It depends on what your definition of 'tiny percent' I guess. 3.4 to 5% is not tiny is my estimate.

False data, more like .02%

CDC does not even know how many had it and never went to the doctor.

It’s all propaganda at this point.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

That's about the 10,000th time that dumb talking point has been made on DP. If you want to discuss it, start a thread with your BUTWHABOUTISM and we can see if we can add something to the previous 9,999 times it's been raised, and proved stupid.

It’s not a stupid argument at all.

It shows that left wing instinct about the virus is based on exaggerated perception of risk coupled with no underlying principle.

 

[RAMOSS]

False data, more like .02%

CDC does not even know how many had it and never went to the doctor.

It’s all propaganda at this point.

I noticed you don't post a source for that... and 'does not know' and .02% is a contradiction. Why are you giving misinformation?

 

[JasperL]

You did not answer the question.

I did start a thread about it, no answers, just like yours.

You're trolling. I have no interest in engaging with your butwhatabouttheflu??!! point. If you want to have a conversation, address my comments on this thread about masks, which is the topic of this thread. Or not. I don't really care.