We need to hold the poor accountable

[Velvet Elvis]

I came across this webpage. It offered very interesting opinions for initially touting a "GUIDE TO TRUE COMPASSION FOR THE POOR"

The poor need accountability as much as the rest of us. Poor people who want to stop being poor are looking at major life changes. These are hard changes that take great effort. They cannot continue as they were and still achieve freedom from poverty. They need accountability, just as we do, to make their efforts work.

Programs for poor people will work only when there is accountability built in. They need a good program to follow in order to move up in life as they want. They need to be required to follow the program in order to continue to receive help. They need some checking on to assure compliance. When they do not comply, there need to be consequences.

So my question is: What do you think "The Poor" should be held accountable for?

The soup-du-jour, so to speak, is to just keep bleeding the rich. Punish them for their successes. Find a way to heist as much of their money from them as possible. But what about the other end of the spectrum? Do the poor just get a free pass? Statistically 76 million households didn't pay income tax in 2011. But these people still enjoy all of societies pleasures. They still get their trash taken away. Their kids still go to school. The police & fire department still come to their house when called. Many are on welfare. Many use food stamps. They're basically living high on someone else's hog. Shouldn't they be shepherded out of poverty status, whether they want that or not?

So what should the poor be accountable for? Should they be forced to pay something in taxes every year? Hell $100.00 per year (according to the above statistic) would bring in $7.6 billion in taxes. What poor family can't afford $100.00? They can sure afford the iPhone or internet bills. Should the poor be forced to complete (and pass) minimum education standards? Should unwed welfare mothers be forced into birth control regimens, because Government can't afford to pay for their kids? I mean...c'mon...even that 30-year old guy living in Mommy's basement usually contributes something.

For the trolls: This thread is about the poor, not the rich.

 

[mak2]

Afford their iPhone? The rich are getting richer and the poor, poorer, yet the poor are bleeding the rich?

I came across this webpage. It offered very interesting opinions for initially touting a "GUIDE TO TRUE COMPASSION FOR THE POOR"





So my question is: What do you think "The Poor" should be held accountable for?

The soup-du-jour, so to speak, is to just keep bleeding the rich. Punish them for their successes. Find a way to heist as much of their money from them as possible. But what about the other end of the spectrum? Do the poor just get a free pass? Statistically 76 million households didn't pay income tax in 2011. But these people still enjoy all of societies pleasures. They still get their trash taken away. Their kids still go to school. The police & fire department still come to their house when called. Many are on welfare. Many use food stamps. They're basically living high on someone else's hog. Shouldn't they be shepherded out of poverty status, whether they want that or not?

So what should the poor be accountable for? Should they be forced to pay something in taxes every year? Hell $100.00 per year (according to the above statistic) would bring in $7.6 billion in taxes. What poor family can't afford $100.00? They can sure afford the iPhone or internet bills. Should the poor be forced to complete (and pass) minimum education standards? Should unwed welfare mothers be forced into birth control regimens, because Government can't afford to pay for their kids? I mean...c'mon...even that 30-year old guy living in Mommy's basement usually contributes something.

For the trolls: This thread is about the poor, not the rich.

 

[Velvet Elvis]

Obviously you didn't grasp the concept. Move along.

 

[Paschendale]

I always like how none of these "the poor are parasites and moochers" rants ever manages to articulate exactly how the poor are responsible for this situation. The closest anyone ever comes is that they "make bad choices". But what those choices are, or what realistic alternatives they had, is never said.

 

[Master PO]

i always like how none of these "the poor are parasites and moochers" rants ever manages to articulate exactly how the poor are responsible for this situation. The closest anyone ever comes is that they "make bad choices". But what those choices are, or what realistic alternatives they had, is never said.

true compassion comes from the heart, not from threats or the barrel of a gun.

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

Ain't the poor the ones making the rich there money?

 

[mak2]

Exactly my point. I don't think I am the one who doesn't get the point.

Ain't the poor the ones making the rich there money?

 

[Goshin]

"Bleeding the rich" ah yes, what a phrase.


I mean dayum, I'm so sorry for those rich folks, their tax burden is so onerous they could only buy ONE vacation home this year and couldn't afford to trade in their Jaguar for this year's model... how sad for them.

Damn it, a lot of those people who "didn't pay taxes" (BULL****) are struggling to pay for rent, utilities, food and medical care! But hell, let's **** 'em some more, the sorry rotten lazy bastards working two part-time jobs cuz that's all they could find, the lazy pukes. :roll:

 

[Goshin]

I mean DAMN, I don't know how anyone has the balls to post something titled "Holding the Poor accountable".

Really?


REALLY?


Most of the poor people I know are BUSTING ASS to work and pay the bills, IF they can FIND a job.

This just pisses me off.

 

[CanadaJohn]

So my question is: What do you think "The Poor" should be held accountable for?

The poor should be held accountable for their own wellbeing, and that of any offspring they produce, just as everyone else should also be so held. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Fisher]

Ain't the poor the ones making the rich there money?

Exactly my point. I don't think I am the one who doesn't get the point.

If you were to compare the income of the wealthy with the S&P you would see that the answer is "Not so much"

 

[mak2]

Lets just let them starve. That will fix em...

The poor should be held accountable for their own wellbeing, and that of any offspring they produce, just as everyone else should also be so held. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Lets just let them starve. That will fix em...

I don't see why you would affix that nonsense to my post.

 

[mak2]

The poor should be held accountable for their own wellbeing, and that of any offspring they produce, just as everyone else should also be so held. Nothing more, nothing less.

I don't see why you would affix that nonsense to my post.

What were you saying then? Would that include WIC etc?

 

[JC Callender]

Why do you care if they have two vacation homes or a new Jaguar? Many of the "rich" have worked incredibly hard and have taken great risks for what they have. The "poor" in our country can take advantage of many benefits, including: Government Benefits, Grants, and Financial Aid for Citizens | USA.gov
and this is federal only. I think V.E.'s point is that the rich often get blamed for their success and are often asked in a not so nice way to pay more while the poor, often paying nothing while enjoying our many benefits, are regarded as victims.

"Bleeding the rich" ah yes, what a phrase.


I mean dayum, I'm so sorry for those rich folks, their tax burden is so onerous they could only buy ONE vacation home this year and couldn't afford to trade in their Jaguar for this year's model... how sad for them.

Damn it, a lot of those people who "didn't pay taxes" (BULL****) are struggling to pay for rent, utilities, food and medical care! But hell, let's **** 'em some more, the sorry rotten lazy bastards working two part-time jobs cuz that's all they could find, the lazy pukes. :roll:

 

[Goshin]

Why do you care if they have two vacation homes or a new Jaguar? Many of the "rich" have worked incredibly hard and have taken great risks for what they have. The "poor" in our country can take advantage of many benefits, including: Government Benefits, Grants, and Financial Aid for Citizens | USA.gov
and this is federal only. I think V.E.'s point is that the rich often get blamed for their success and are often asked in a not so nice way to pay more while the poor, often paying nothing while enjoying our many benefits, are regarded as victims.

Pardon me if I have trouble crying real tears for someone who made $400,000 last year and is pissed they only get to keep $240,000, when there are so many people struggling and WORKING to feed a family on less than $25,000.


Pardon me if someone being more concerned with "holding the poor accountable"... the poor who are barely staying this side of HOMELESS in this economy already... than with whether the poor are going without heat or medical care trying to buy groceries because Mama lost her job and can't find another, and Daddy's hours at the factory were cut AGAIN.

 

[CanadaJohn]

What were you saying then? Would that include WIC etc?

I'm not sure what WIC stands for, so I can't respond directly. I was simply stating that every person is responsible and accountable for their own life and the lives they bring into this world. There are no people born or genetically tagged to be poor in western society - I presume you're not referring to those born into poverty in Africa or some parts of southern Asia, etc., but in North America. If a poor Central American can travel thousands of miles, cross your border illegally, make a life for himself and bring his family into the country and raise children in America all while mostly living in the shadows, creating that life solely on the basis of his hard work and a desire for a better life, then there's not much excuse for any able bodied, sound of mind, individual born into this great society we enjoy.

 

[Fisher]

I hope whatever we force them to do it involves learning about and calculating the time value of money so they will see how idiotic the "take from the rich" arguments are.

 

[sookster]

People alienate and blame the poor so they do not have to face the fact that society is not perfect and there is failure. For example, all poor people are lazy would make sense in a just capitalistic system. The lazy do not make money, so they are poor. People that make money are not lazy. It is to keep from thinking about the painful observation that there are men with paid mansions, various cars, and private jets, while there are families that are unsure how they are getting their next meal.

It isn't black and white. Sure, part of it would be on the individual onto why they are poor. But society bears some responsibility as well. How we go about fixing that is another discussion all together. Hell, we haven't even determined if society burdens any responsibility or not with regards to the poor. That would be the first step.

 

[mak2]

OOopps sorry, Women, Infants and children, it is a nutritional program for women who are pregnant, their infants and children. That was what it sounded to me like you were talking about. What exactly do you mean by being accountable for he lives one brings into the world? Should there be a program to supplement the diets of pregnant women and children?

I'm not sure what WIC stands for, so I can't respond directly. I was simply stating that every person is responsible and accountable for their own life and the lives they bring into this world. There are no people born or genetically tagged to be poor in western society - I presume you're not referring to those born into poverty in Africa or some parts of southern Asia, etc., but in North America. If a poor Central American can travel thousands of miles, cross your border illegally, make a life for himself and bring his family into the country and raise children in America all while mostly living in the shadows, creating that life solely on the basis of his hard work and a desire for a better life, then there's not much excuse for any able bodied, sound of mind, individual born into this great society we enjoy.

 

[CanadaJohn]

OOopps sorry, Women, Infants and children, it is a nutritional program for women who are pregnant, their infants and children. That was what it sounded to me like you were talking about. What exactly do you mean by being accountable for he lives one brings into the world? Should there be a program to supplement the diets of pregnant women and children?

There wouldn't need to be a "program" to supplement the diets of pregnant women and children if the person who impregnated the woman and fathered the children was accountable and responsible for his actions as well as the woman who allowed herself to become pregnant and had children without first acquiring the means and the skills to adequately take care of them.

If you always propose a government program that substitutes the collective as the responsible party, you will continue to have those who sink to the bottom out of sloth and lack of self-respect and self-discipline.

 

[JC Callender]

You didn't look at the link I included, did you?

There are low income earners who will get back several thousand dollars in tax refunds alone this year, not to mention all of the other benefits. And two of our state benefits are the Michigan Home Heating Credit and the Homestead Credit, to take care of those having trouble with rent and heat. I get several hundred dollars back this year from the Homestead Credit alone.

Pardon me if I have trouble crying real tears for someone who made $400,000 last year and is pissed they only get to keep $240,000, when there are so many people struggling and WORKING to feed a family on less than $25,000.


Pardon me if someone being more concerned with "holding the poor accountable"... the poor who are barely staying this side of HOMELESS in this economy already... than with whether the poor are going without heat or medical care trying to buy groceries because Mama lost her job and can't find another, and Daddy's hours at the factory were cut AGAIN.

 

[Goshin]

I'm not sure what WIC stands for, so I can't respond directly. I was simply stating that every person is responsible and accountable for their own life and the lives they bring into this world. There are no people born or genetically tagged to be poor in western society - I presume you're not referring to those born into poverty in Africa or some parts of southern Asia, etc., but in North America. If a poor Central American can travel thousands of miles, cross your border illegally, make a life for himself and bring his family into the country and raise children in America all while mostly living in the shadows, creating that life solely on the basis of his hard work and a desire for a better life, then there's not much excuse for any able bodied, sound of mind, individual born into this great society we enjoy.

So we should all learn to live comfortably on the $10 a day that illegal immigrants get paid?

Okay. You first.

 

[Goshin]

You didn't look at the link I included, did you?

There are low income earners who will get back several thousand dollars in tax refunds alone this year, not to mention all of the other benefits. And two of our state benefits are the Michigan Home Heating Credit and the Homestead Credit, to take care of those having trouble with rent and heat. I get several hundred dollars back this year from the Homestead Credit alone.

How lovely, we aren't all so lucky though. Not to mention that is exactly the sort of thing that most of the "hold the poor accountable" crowd want to eliminate entirely.

 

[mak2]

So like I said that you took offense to. Let them starve?

There wouldn't need to be a "program" to supplement the diets of pregnant women and children if the person who impregnated the woman and fathered the children was accountable and responsible for his actions as well as the woman who allowed herself to become pregnant and had children without first acquiring the means and the skills to adequately take care of them.

If you always propose a government program that substitutes the collective as the responsible party, you will continue to have those who sink to the bottom out of sloth and lack of self-respect and self-discipline.