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We Need Some Hand to Hand Combat in First Person Shooters

blackjack50

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One of my greatest peeves as a martial artist playing a game like arma/battlefield/cod/rainbow six is the lack of innovation in hand to hand fighting. I always feel like I am getting gipped. I am not asking for Kung fu fighting/street fighter/tekken in my cod.

Basically I would like to just have some kind of mechanic for grappling/punching/melee/kicking/rifle butting someone rather than an instant kill. If you remember the Bourne Conspiracy game...that did combat VERY well, and I would love to see something like that in a first person setting that focuses more on the shooting, but if your character is at point blank you could knock the other player's rifle out of the way or something.
 

PirateMk1

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One of my greatest peeves as a martial artist playing a game like arma/battlefield/cod/rainbow six is the lack of innovation in hand to hand fighting. I always feel like I am getting gipped. I am not asking for Kung fu fighting/street fighter/tekken in my cod.

Basically I would like to just have some kind of mechanic for grappling/punching/melee/kicking/rifle butting someone rather than an instant kill. If you remember the Bourne Conspiracy game...that did combat VERY well, and I would love to see something like that in a first person setting that focuses more on the shooting, but if your character is at point blank you could knock the other player's rifle out of the way or something.

Its gameplay and control simplicity. You only have so many buttons on a mouse or controller. Further it steepens the learning curve. The curve gets too steep and the casual player goes away. If its automated then it will not work perfectly, and screw up the gameplay. Its a art to balance it all to get a fun game that is fairly deep.
 

ajn678

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Mirrors Edge had some pretty decent parts like this. I don't know how the second one is, but the first was really fun.
 

the_recruit

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Not just hand-to-hand, but melee combat altogether has never been done well in any game. It's just difficult to translate the motion of swinging a sword into button-pushing in a way that feels intuitive. As opposed to, say, pulling a trigger which translates quite naturally.

I expect advents in wii-style motion controllers will get us there. Imagine skyrim with proper sword fighting, where it actually tracks the arc you're swinging with your arm. Now combine that with VR....we're on the edge of a serious revolution in gaming.
 

Carjosse

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as a martial artist playing a game like arma/battlefield/cod/rainbow six

Well there is your problem. Those games are not meant to have realistic melee combat, it is simply not a part of the game.
 

blackjack50

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Mirrors Edge had some pretty decent parts like this. I don't know how the second one is, but the first was really fun.

That was one game that I was ok with. It seemed pretty streamlined in the gun to hand to hand combat. Especially in the open areas. Quick changes between targets and all that. Would be nice if they could mix it up a little ya know?
 

blackjack50

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Well there is your problem. Those games are not meant to have realistic melee combat, it is simply not a part of the game.

I understand, but that is something they could use. Especially with the coming release of battlefield one. The First World War featured fierce hand to hand combat. Trench fighting was nose to nose. And we likely won't get something that features that.

Like I said...I'm not looking for kung fu fighting. But you should have to pull out your knife, and the melee should involve smashing someone with the stock or a bayonet. Or a punch or push. Take R6 siege...that call of duty knife swipe? Come on. A front kick is more realistic than that.
 

Goshin

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One of my greatest peeves as a martial artist playing a game like arma/battlefield/cod/rainbow six is the lack of innovation in hand to hand fighting. I always feel like I am getting gipped. I am not asking for Kung fu fighting/street fighter/tekken in my cod.

Basically I would like to just have some kind of mechanic for grappling/punching/melee/kicking/rifle butting someone rather than an instant kill. If you remember the Bourne Conspiracy game...that did combat VERY well, and I would love to see something like that in a first person setting that focuses more on the shooting, but if your character is at point blank you could knock the other player's rifle out of the way or something.



Hm. Son#1 has a new game that has both shooting and hand to hand, and the HTH is pretty damn cool. It isn't an FPS per se though. I'll ask him about it when he gets home.
 

Carjosse

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I understand, but that is something they could use. Especially with the coming release of battlefield one. The First World War featured fierce hand to hand combat. Trench fighting was nose to nose. And we likely won't get something that features that.

Like I said...I'm not looking for kung fu fighting. But you should have to pull out your knife, and the melee should involve smashing someone with the stock or a bayonet. Or a punch or push. Take R6 siege...that call of duty knife swipe? Come on. A front kick is more realistic than that.

Except one major element you are forgetting is that is what the game is about, melee like that is not fun in a fast-paced FPS. The reason the knife is that it takes only a fraction of a second to do and allows the player to get back to shooting. The games are meant to be completely historical, you have to stick to your core gameplay. There are many more things that played an even bigger role in the war than hand-to-hand combat but they are not going to be included because they are not fun and/or do not fit the gameplay. You are creating a problem where none exist.
 

blackjack50

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Except one major element you are forgetting is that is what the game is about, melee like that is not fun in a fast-paced FPS. The reason the knife is that it takes only a fraction of a second to do and allows the player to get back to shooting. The games are meant to be completely historical, you have to stick to your core gameplay. There are many more things that played an even bigger role in the war than hand-to-hand combat but they are not going to be included because they are not fun and/or do not fit the gameplay. You are creating a problem where none exist.

Well you SAY that it is supposed to be a shooter. I'm not in disagreement. And how I feel about how some games treat the shooting aspect bugs me (arma being different in that they do well with the ballistics). But who says you can't have a fast paced hand to hand fight in the midst of a shooter? Picture a corner sweep gone wrong and you end up nose to nose with an enemy player. You click your button and your guy kicks/punches/rifle butts the enemy. I can even think of a good counter system.

R3 + x,square, triangle, or circle. The enemy sees and presses r3. First guy to get that off wins. And then you go from there. It would play out slightly slower than a knife (and it should...guns are better than knives and you SHOULD be at a disadvantage fighting the with a knife), and it would look amazing. Plus it would add a new dynamic to the CQB in a game.
 
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