We Can Blame The Rich (1 Viewer)

[Peacenik]

Everybody knows the rich run our government. The rich have all the power, the 99% have little to zero influence over what our government does.

It's not that all rich people are bad. There are good rich people and bad rich people.

The problem is the bad ones are messing things up so badly and the good ones are not doing enough to stop them.

The good rich people need to do more. Far more.

Where is the positive messaging? The bad news just keeps on coming.

We need the good rich people to step it up. There are some bad rich people spending so much money to screw over our government, spending so much money to circulate misinformation. Where is the counter to that? Whatever there is, it's not enough.

If good rich people want to preserve any level of respect with the 99% they are going to have to turn this around.

People are truly concerned about where our nation is headed.

Complacency is capitulation.

We can blame the good rich people just as much as the bad rich people because they have the power to turn this around but they are not using it.

 

[braindrain]

Everybody knows the rich run our government. The rich have all the power, the 99% have little to zero influence over what our government does.

It's not that all rich people are bad. There are good rich people and bad rich people.

The problem is the bad ones are messing things up so badly and the good ones are not doing enough to stop them.

The good rich people need to do more. Far more.

Where is the positive messaging? The bad news just keeps on coming.

We need the good rich people to step it up. There are some bad rich people spending so much money to screw over our government, spending so much money to circulate misinformation. Where is the counter to that? Whatever there is, it's not enough.

If good rich people want to preserve any level of respect with the 99% they are going to have to turn this around.

People are truly concerned about where our nation is headed.

Complacency is capitulation.

We can blame the good rich people just as much as the bad rich people because they have the power to turn this around but they are not using it.

The people actually hold the power. Blaming the rich for the actions of the majority is a weak excuse.

 

[Mithrae]

It's not that all rich people are bad. There are good rich people and bad rich people.

Are there? You're talking about all those "good people" who accumulate a hundred million dollars - ample for they and their children and grandchildren to live in ridiculous luxury for all their days - and, upon looking around at all the suffering and poverty and malnourishment in the world decide "I'd better accumulate another hundred million dollars just to be on the safe side."

Those good rich people?

I suppose there might be a handful good rich people who were victims/heirs of their parents' fortune, and even fewer whose rise to wealth was rapid and unplanned enough (lottery, superstardom) that they could be excused, at least in the first year or two, for not having thought too much about the morality of it all.

 

[Cosmo]

Are there? You're talking about all those "good people" who accumulate a hundred million dollars - ample for they and their children and grandchildren to live in ridiculous luxury for all their days - and, upon looking around at all the suffering and poverty and malnourishment in the world decide "I'd better accumulate another hundred million dollars just to be on the safe side."

Those good rich people?

Well what should they do instead?

I suppose there might be a handful good rich people who were victims/heirs of their parents' fortune...

 

[Mithrae]

Well what should they do instead?

Give the wealth back to the world it was accumulated from, such as local charities helping the homeless and destitute or international development charities helping build more resilient communities.

Luke 16:19ff There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate lay a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who longed to satisfy his hunger with what fell from the rich man’s table; even the dogs would come and lick his sores. . . .​

 

[ttwtt78640]

Well what should they do instead?

If the CEO of WalMart took an $18M/year pay cut then each WalMart employee could be given a $9/year raise.

 

[Cameron]

The "bad" rich people run the government because they have brainwashed and radicalized tens of millions of working class people into voting against their own (the working people's) long-term economic interests.

The "good" rich people are doing things like donating to Dem candidates, funding the ACLU, sponsoring low-income housing, giving to foundations, etc., etc. They are doing more than you think. It's the average people in this country who need to do more. The Trump base may be pushed along by nefarious rich people, but they are ultimately responsible for their own choices and actions.

 

[Cosmo]

Give the wealth back to the world it was accumulated from, such as local charities helping the homeless and destitute or international development charities helping build more resilient communities.

Luke 16:19ff There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate lay a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who longed to satisfy his hunger with what fell from the rich man’s table; even the dogs would come and lick his sores. . . .​

A lot of people's troubles are from behavior, though. Give someone more money, and he'll buy more drugs, have twice as many kids, etc... It's why the poor are over-represented in obesity (at least in America).

If the CEO of WalMart took an $18M/year pay cut then each WalMart employee could be given a $9/year raise.

He's gonna spend or give away the money eventually anyway.

The "bad" rich people run the government because they have brainwashed and radicalized tens of millions of working class people into voting against their own (the working people's) long-term economic interests.

The "good" rich people are doing things like donating to Dem candidates, funding the ACLU, sponsoring low-income housing, giving to foundations, etc., etc. They are doing more than you think. It's the average people in this country who need to do more. The Trump base may be pushed along by nefarious rich people, but they are ultimately responsible for their own choices and actions.

Maybe not all working people think the Soviet model is appropriate.

 

[Mycroft]

Everybody knows the rich run our government. The rich have all the power, the 99% have little to zero influence over what our government does.

It's not that all rich people are bad. There are good rich people and bad rich people.

The problem is the bad ones are messing things up so badly and the good ones are not doing enough to stop them.

The good rich people need to do more. Far more.

Where is the positive messaging? The bad news just keeps on coming.

We need the good rich people to step it up. There are some bad rich people spending so much money to screw over our government, spending so much money to circulate misinformation. Where is the counter to that? Whatever there is, it's not enough.

If good rich people want to preserve any level of respect with the 99% they are going to have to turn this around.

People are truly concerned about where our nation is headed.

Complacency is capitulation.

We can blame the good rich people just as much as the bad rich people because they have the power to turn this around but they are not using it.

Actually, we don't need rich people to do anything.

We need politicians who won't take money from the rich and won't do what the rich want...and we need voters who will elect those politicians.

 

[Mithrae]

A lot of people's troubles are from behavior, though. Give someone more money, and he'll buy more drugs, have twice as many kids, etc... It's why the poor are over-represented in obesity (at least in America).

That's a pretty pathetic cop-out when it comes to international poverty. But even in America, shockingly, all humans are human. If you bombard them with near 24/7 advertising to buy junk food and other unnecessary crap a lot of people - particularly those with lower intelligence, education or media literacy - will succumb to the indoctrination... and moreover, our economic model depends on them doing so. If poor and working class people reduced their consumption habits by say a third we'd go into a deep and prolonged recession which might spiral out of control unless stimulus spending were effective in restoring "consumer confidence" and spending.

There certainly do need to be systemic reforms to address issues like that (which is what the OP was getting at). I was just focusing on the specific point that it's difficult to avoid the conclusion that folk who keep intentionally accumulating more and more wealth into the hundreds of millions and beyond are pretty much moral scum with essentially no regard for their fellow human beings.

 

[Cosmo]

That's a pretty pathetic cop-out when it comes to international poverty.

When it comes to international poverty, there are different problems and challenges. Many poor countries are led by corrupt tyrants. You can't fix North Korea with a couple generous CEOs from Walmart and McDonald's.

But even in America, shockingly, all humans are human. If you bombard them with near 24/7 advertising to buy junk food and other unnecessary crap a lot of people - particularly those with lower intelligence, education or media literacy - will succumb to the indoctrination... and moreover, our economic model depends on them doing so. If poor and working class people reduced their consumption habits by say a third we'd go into a deep and prolonged recession which might spiral out of control unless stimulus spending were effective in restoring "consumer confidence" and spending.

I dunno. When I see an annoying ad pop up over a video I want to watch, my first emotion is an intense desire for the company in the ad to go out of business for daring to interrupt my YouTube binge. My second is to switch to a browser that bypasses YouTube ads. But it seems we agree it's behavior, not greed, that causes problems in advanced societies such as the USA.

As for why those behaviors occur, I'm glad you listed education as a potential culprit. With free K-12 available to all, I think it comes down to the very lazy choosing this fate for themselves and/or public education being epically mismanaged in the USA.

There certainly do need to be systemic reforms to address issues like that (which is what the OP was getting at). I was just focusing on the specific point that it's difficult to avoid the conclusion that folk who keep intentionally accumulating more and more wealth into the hundreds of millions and beyond are pretty much moral scum with essentially no regard for their fellow human beings.

Or they just realize that many people, if given free money, will just end up like bankrupt lottery winners because the root of their problem was never addressed.

 

[Craig234]

It is the problem, and the 99% can't count on 'good rich people' to fight for them against the other rich people as the solution.

I hate to say, the people have little chance today, unless they can somehow overcome the mass indoctrination misleading them, and there's no indication they can. What we can hope for is a backlash election if we still have somewhat fair elections.

 

[aociswundumho]

Everybody knows the rich run our government.

Then you should want to reduce government power, because any power you give to the rotten government, you are giving to "the rich".

 

[Mithrae]

When it comes to international poverty, there are different problems and challenges. Many poor countries are led by corrupt tyrants. You can't fix North Korea with a couple generous CEOs from Walmart and McDonald's.

And many of those tyrants are directly or indirectly propped up by US governments as a result of corporate-friendly policies. More to the point not all poor countries are led by corrupt tyrants Explanations why a billionaire can't help everyone are pretty piss-poor excuses for why she won't help anyone.

As for why those behaviors occur, I'm glad you listed education as a potential culprit. With free K-12 available to all, I think it comes down to the very lazy choosing this fate for themselves and/or public education being epically mismanaged in the USA.

These occasional exceptions and feeble cop-outs are irrelevant to the question of rich people's moral character. If you've got a dozen loaves of bread and see someone starving to death, you give them some goddamn bread; you don't start pseudo-philosophizing about optimal political superstructures, speculating on whether they might use the bread to buy a hooker, or rationalizing that even if you give this guy some bread there'll still be a hundred others starving.

Christ, starving to death would not be a reasonable or just consequence for stupidity even in the comparatively few cases where destitute people's situation really is that simple. We're clever apes, and some people aren't as clever as others. You or the rich person you're advocating for are essentially preaching a form of eugenics there, just let the stupid people die in the streets so the ubermensch can continue ****ing up the planet with his private jets and superyachts.

 

[iliveonramen]

Yeah, the elites/rich whatever you want to call them have royally ****ed up this country. It's been one disaster after another based on greed and a complete revamping of the country to squeeze as much as they can out of the country. They have spent billions over decades to convince a lot of people to support things that hurt themselves.

Anyone that believes that the wealthy are super smart and super competent deserve to have the rich walk all over them.

 

[Girlpower]

Everybody knows the rich run our government. The rich have all the power, the 99% have little to zero influence over what our government does.

It's not that all rich people are bad. There are good rich people and bad rich people.

The problem is the bad ones are messing things up so badly and the good ones are not doing enough to stop them.

The good rich people need to do more. Far more.

Where is the positive messaging? The bad news just keeps on coming.

We need the good rich people to step it up. There are some bad rich people spending so much money to screw over our government, spending so much money to circulate misinformation. Where is the counter to that? Whatever there is, it's not enough.

If good rich people want to preserve any level of respect with the 99% they are going to have to turn this around.

People are truly concerned about where our nation is headed.

Complacency is capitulation.

We can blame the good rich people just as much as the bad rich people because they have the power to turn this around but they are not using it.

Name some good rich people.

 

[Individual]

Everybody knows the rich run our government. The rich have all the power, the 99% have little to zero influence over what our government does.

It's not that all rich people are bad. There are good rich people and bad rich people.

The problem is the bad ones are messing things up so badly and the good ones are not doing enough to stop them.

The good rich people need to do more. Far more.

Where is the positive messaging? The bad news just keeps on coming.

We need the good rich people to step it up. There are some bad rich people spending so much money to screw over our government, spending so much money to circulate misinformation. Where is the counter to that? Whatever there is, it's not enough.

If good rich people want to preserve any level of respect with the 99% they are going to have to turn this around.

People are truly concerned about where our nation is headed.

Complacency is capitulation.

We can blame the good rich people just as much as the bad rich people because they have the power to turn this around but they are not using it.

I blame the 99%, or more appropriately the 2 halves of the 99%, who do little more than fight over which party shall do their thinking.
We might begin to resolve some issues were we to begin discussions rather than debates.

 

[Cosmo]

And many of those tyrants are directly or indirectly propped up by US governments as a result of corporate-friendly policies. More to the point not all poor countries are led by corrupt tyrants Explanations why a billionaire can't help everyone are pretty piss-poor excuses for why she won't help anyone.


These occasional exceptions and feeble cop-outs are irrelevant to the question of rich people's moral character. If you've got a dozen loaves of bread and see someone starving to death,

They're not. They're more likely to be dying from obesity. Your solution to give them the loaf of bread will just make things worse.

you give them some goddamn bread; you don't start pseudo-philosophizing about optimal political superstructures, speculating on whether they might use the bread to buy a hooker, or rationalizing that even if you give this guy some bread there'll still be a hundred others starving.

Christ, starving to death would not be a reasonable or just consequence for stupidity even in the comparatively few cases where destitute people's situation really is that simple. We're clever apes, and some people aren't as clever as others. You or the rich person you're advocating for are essentially preaching a form of eugenics there, just let the stupid people die in the streets so the ubermensch can continue ****ing up the planet with his private jets and superyachts.

 

[Mithrae]

They're not. They're more likely to be dying from obesity. Your solution to give them the loaf of bread will just make things worse.

I guess moral bankruptcy is not the sole domain of the rich.

 

[Cosmo]

I guess moral bankruptcy is not the sole domain of the rich.

View attachment 67569618

There are already food stamps for that.

 

[dmpi]

Imagine hating someone just because of the color of his/her skin. Imagine hating someone just because they were extremely hardworking and successful.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

Actually, we don't need rich people to do anything.

We need politicians who won't take money from the rich and won't do what the rich want...and we need voters who will elect those politicians.

We need to get politicians that will -ass campaign finance reform. Draft new law that will circumvent Xitizen’s United. Get the money out of our politics.

The wealthy are free to make as much money as they can. I simply insist it be done on level playing fields. Not one’s they’ve purchased to tilt in very specific ways so that all generated wealth slides by the force of the gravity they have paid to create into their pockets.

That’s simply not cricket, old bean.

 

[H. E. Panqui]

Everybody knows the rich run our government. The rich have all the power, the 99% have little to zero influence over what our government does.

It's not that all rich people are bad. There are good rich people and bad rich people.

The problem is the bad ones are messing things up so badly and the good ones are not doing enough to stop them.

The good rich people need to do more. Far more.

Where is the positive messaging? The bad news just keeps on coming.

We need the good rich people to step it up. There are some bad rich people spending so much money to screw over our government, spending so much money to circulate misinformation. Where is the counter to that? Whatever there is, it's not enough.

If good rich people want to preserve any level of respect with the 99% they are going to have to turn this around.

People are truly concerned about where our nation is headed.

Complacency is capitulation.

We can blame the good rich people just as much as the bad rich people because they have the power to turn this around but they are not using it.

PLEASE learn the realities of the stinking rotten monetary order which will keep the uneducated FOREVER complaining about the inevitable....ugh...

“Once a nation parts with the control of its currency and credit, it matters not who makes that nation's laws. Usury, once in control, will wreck any nation. Until the control of the issue of currency and credit is restored to government and recognized as its most conspicuous and sacred responsibility, all talk of the sovereignty of Parliament and of democracy is idle and futile.”​

― William Lyon MacKenzie

 

[The AntiDonald]

If the CEO of WalMart took an $18M/year pay cut then each WalMart employee could be given a $9/year raise.

Except the CEO of Walmart doesn't make his fortune off his salary. He could take no salary and still acquire millions off his stock holdings.

 

[Peacenik]

The "bad" rich people run the government because they have brainwashed and radicalized tens of millions of working class people into voting against their own (the working people's) long-term economic interests.

The "good" rich people are doing things like donating to Dem candidates, funding the ACLU, sponsoring low-income housing, giving to foundations, etc., etc. They are doing more than you think. It's the average people in this country who need to do more. The Trump base may be pushed along by nefarious rich people, but they are ultimately responsible for their own choices and actions.

I respectfully disagree with the idea that the good rich people are doing enough.

There needs to be a humongous big money public opinion shaping effort to match the big money disinformation network spearheaded by the Koch Brothers, which is massive. Where is the liberal counter to what is described in the Powell Memo? Sure, there are plenty of efforts but whatever is out there is just not enough. We have millions of right wingers in this country who believe absolute falsehoods. The battle is for public understanding of facts; and the record is dismal. The right wing disinformation network has won that battle.

What is needed is a massive left oriented reinformation network to dispel the disinformation. Whatever is there needs to be way more.