Pacridge
DP Veteran
Gandhi>Bush said:What makes you say that?
GySgt said:Like Hitler rallying the Germans under one hate towards the Jews, the leaders across the Middle East have practiced the same efforts on Israel. The result is feuding Muslim countries, oppression, legalized brutality, and murder in the name of God.
GySgt said:The root of the problem in the Middle East is greed and power.
I think your attempt at a moral equivalence here is weak and misplaced.GarzaUK said:Isn't that what the US did during the Cold War, spread hatred and fear of the Communists. McCarthy Witch Trails anyone?
GySgt said:(1) These are militarized thugs that crash airplanes into buildings and blow up civillians as a drastic display of a temper tantrum because we stand between them and the annhialation of another country. This is a war that they started decades ago. We have just been too blind to defend ourselves.
(2) How many more cowardly attacks were American civillians supposed to sustain while America looked the other way through futile acts of diplomacy?
(3) An enemy that is prepared to kill you for being American and a supporter of Israel does not and will not listen to reason. They count on your apologies and patience. You give them an olive branch and they will take it and slap you in the face. You turn the other cheek and you expose to them their next target. Diplomacy was never going to work. For you to say that we should just leave and try to understand their pain is what they are counting on.
(4) I say kill 'em all and let their God rewrd them and let the pascifist cry about them while benifetting from the security it provides. What would be left would be peaceful Muslims and Christians living life just like every where else.
The USS Liberty was in an active *theater of war* when this tragedy occured. Israel did indeed apologise for this deadly mistake...NoobieDoobieDo said:This US support for Israel all things considered to me is slightly concerning. You shouldn't let your Navy boys die and do nothing over it because your ally "accidentally" attacked you over and over and over.
Tashah said:1. The USS Liberty was in an active *theater of war* when this tragedy occured. Israel did indeed apologise for this deadly mistake...
Please remember that unforseen and unfortunate incidents do indeed happen in theatres of active combat.
2. Speaking of attacks on US naval vessels, it's strange that you neglected to mention the Al-Queda attack on the USS Cole in Oman which was *premeditated* and *intentional*. But then again, that doesn't seem to coalesce with your implicit agenda.
Then I suggest that you expand your coterie of associates interested in geopolitics and historicity.NoobieDoobieDo said:Most people with any interest in politics know of the USS Cole story but I've only met approx 4 people who have even heard of the USS Liberty.
Tashah said:Then I suggest that you expand your coterie of associates interested in geopolitics and historicity.
I also participate in a broad array of political/debate forums. I just think it's a bit odd for you to annunciate in this thread a tragic US/Israel incident that happened *38 years ago*.NoobieDoobieDo said:It's pretty broad. I talk to a lot of people online in political debate forums such as these. Very few people know.
What exactly are you referring to here?GySgt said:Typical.
Ignore the tons of premeditated and malicious attacks made by militant Islamist on our civillians while vomiting the ounces of mistakes made by American retalliations.
Tashah said:1) I just think it's a bit odd for you to annunciate in this thread a tragic US/Israel incident that happened *38 years ago*.
2) For the record, 10 United States government investigations along with 3 Israeli inquiries have deemed the incident an accident that occured in the fog of war.
No doubt the IDF made numerous errors, but so did the US Navy.
GySgt said:Typical.
Ignore the tons of premeditated and malicious attacks made by militant Islamist on our civillians while vomiting the ounces of mistakes made by American retalliations.
Tashah said:Well Rory, you have your presented your ticking points and I have presented mine. I'm fairly sure you and I will have a smashing jolly good time hereWelcome to Debate Politics!
Shalom ~ Sala'am,
Tashah
GySgt said:Our "damage" has been inflicted on tyrants and oppressors. Mistakes made by bad equipment and errors in judgements are unfortunate. Our technology enables us to continue to further the advances against fratricide and civillian casualties. Our training has continued to evolve. In a firefight last year in the middle of the street in Fallujah, I witnessed Marines rushing towards their targets firing their weapons with one hand while grabbing civillians and throwing them down with the other. This is America and it's efforts.
The "damage" inflicted by the enemy has always been malicious and devious. They will purposefully seek out a crowd of unsuspecting civillians and detonate bombs. They will use their own people as shields. In Somalia, I witnessed armed militia firing on us us from inside a crowd of protesters. They were holding on to women, preventing us from firing back. This is the effort of the enemy.
There would be no reason for war if the behavior of others were more civilized.
NoobieDoobieDo said:I agree. However when inflicting our damage on tyrants and other undesireables we accidently kill bystanders in the process. They don't care it was an accident, this accounts for some of the terrorist we face.
On the other foot we support dictators and tyrants allowing them to oppress their people then turn the coin over and say they are bad people and that we don't support them and now we must destroy them (in turn accidently killing innocent people).
It's through this turn about that I believe a lot of dislike for America comes from and even more terrorist.
Tashah said:When you are the world's lone superpower, you are bound to step on toes and engender dislike from various factions. Unfortunately, there is no getting around this as it goes with the territory. As far as civilian and unintended casualties, I know of no war where this has not occured. This is not meant to be a moralistic excuse. Rather, the sad fact is that civilian casualties are another ugly byproduct of war.
US support for dictators and tyrants was a necessary yet nearsighted vestage of the Cold war era. Perhaps that is slowly changing. Associating with tyrants was/is hypocitical and shameful, and disassociating ourselves will also cause pain and heartache. I know this sounds simplistic, yet the simple truths are often the most profound ones.
NoobieDoobieDo said:the US's support of Saddam during the Iran war days when we knew he was using WMD (and we helped him) doesn't do the issue justice. I find it beyond ironic that Mr. Rummy was shaking Saddam's hand smiling during these times then all these years later condems the man as if he were Satan.
We didn't cause terrorism, I don't know why you people want to blame the US. for everything bad that happens in the world. Our government was so nice to the terrorists during the nineties, they even pardoned them. They bombed the World Trade Center, we did nothing, they bombed embassies, we did nothing, they bombed the Cole, we did nothing. Did that stop 9-11? Hell no ! The terrorist cells grew because we did nothing, not because we did something.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?