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Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

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How do you explain tax revenue growing after the tax increases under Clinton? How do you explain tax revenue growing in the absence of any change to tax rates?

I would explain it as the 1994 elections that put the GOP in charge and a GOP that recinded most of those tax increases. You were probably too young to understand
 
I would explain it as the 1994 elections that put the GOP in charge and a GOP that recinded most of those tax increases. You were probably too young to understand

So it's tax cuts, except when it isn't and you got to blame it on something else with zero data. Your argument is looking kinda silly.

By the way, I was already out of the military when this happened. Your backassed insult failed miserably. When you have to resort to stupid **** like that, it is pretty much proof that you know you have failed and are looking for anything to save face.
 

Everybody is going to have to pay for it. And, yes, legislators created the mess. Gov. Walker wants to take bargaining wages out of the legislators' hands and put it in the hands of the people. I have no problem with that. Why should you?


Your list of what was being asked of state employees got my goat. It's being asked of everyone. No one is singling out the public sector. People who work for state governments and have defined benefit pension plans have a different world view because they live in a different world. Their pensions are far and away more generous than the private sector employees who have to pay for them.
 

Well, well, well, I knew there was a reason that I didn't respond to you in the past. I used poor judgment and decided to give you another chance. Looks like I was wrong.

Amazing that this is still about you keeping more of what you earn and I am the only one defending it. Your lack of economic understanding is staggering. Obviously you don't understand that tax cuts mean more take home pay and less need for all that govt. help that you want to promote. I certainly hope that you are sending your tax cuts back since apparently the govt. needs the money more than you do.

For someone that claims to have served in the military you sure have a distorted view of the U.S. Economy and what drives it. Doubt seriously that you did indeed serve but that is irrelevant. Figure out the components of GDP and get back to me. Then you might be able to figure out how tax cuts and tax increases affect economic growth. The word incentive doesn't seem to exist in the liberal world.
 

Hey look, more insults, and complete avoiding talking about my point. Good job! When you have some one beat, you can always tell.
 
People line up to work at Walmarts because once a Walmart moves in, they will not be able to compete with them

Competition in the free market is new to you? I blame our education system.
If Wal-Mart moved in to compete, you can move out to compete.
You can also pick a market to compete in without Wal-Mart. Hell, you can use Wal-Mart in your supply chain.

You don't really have a point in any of this.
 
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Of course they do not participate in small markets

Contradicts:
you are already stopped the moment your business starts to try to compete with theirs.

If they are not in that market, they are NOT COMPETING WITH YOU.

Hell, even tiny fish still routinely displace the giant global brands. How did Gates compete with IBM again? Papa Johns with PizzaHut/Dominos?

You have to find new reasoning to back up your beliefs, because these are obviously false.
 
Hey look, more insults, and complete avoiding talking about my point. Good job! When you have some one beat, you can always tell.

Sounds like you asked for it or expected it after this...

 

Actually the don't contradict. They do not participate in small markets because they go regional/national/global and in doing so, they eat up the small markets in the process.

I like how you take my quotes of context and you have to find new reasoning that I am wrong because your old reasons are obviously false.
 
Everybody is going to have to pay for it. And, yes, legislators created the mess. Gov. Walker wants to take bargaining wages out of the legislators' hands and put it in the hands of the people. I have no problem with that. Why should you?

I have a problem with it with the only voice public employees have is via their union representation. And judging by what Gov. Walker has done to date, it's pretty obvious he wants to silence that voice, thereby, giving public employees no say in salaries, wages, employee benefits, holiday time off (paid or unpaid) and a host of other issues that ARE afforded private sector employees. Imagine if you will state legislators voting themselves pay increases or changing their benefit packages WITHOUT the confidence of the people they represent - the voters? It happens all the time even in the U.S. Congress, but how many voters know about it in a timely fashion to say anything about, for or against? Now, imagine this same thing happening (staying with the example of state legislators) in hard economic times, but legislators deny state employees a pay raise. They get one, but state employees don't...and the reason given, "it's the economy...our budget can't afford a pay increase".

You see, this is EXACTLY what happened in my state three years ago, but very few people across the state knew anything about it until word leaked out the next time the legislature tried to vote themselves another pay raise. This time, people all across the state complained and not surprisingly, the vote failed. Now, while this wasn't a union issue, the larger point I'm trying to address is if left up to the legislators they won't have the interest of the state employee in mind; they'll have their own agenda. The ONLY way to make this process fair is to insist that pay raises or any other benefit afforded to state legislators is tied to state employees. In short, if they vote themselves a pay raise, ALL state employees should get one as well. Since WE ALL work for the People and our income is taxpayer funded. No free rides, but TOTAL fairness as well. Better yet, put the vote to the People. If they believe public servants are doing a good enough job to warrant a pay raise, their vote will determine such.



Again, I'd like to see some evidence of this, but even IF that's the case, such can be brought back into balance WITHOUT silencing the voices of the few advocates public servants have within their state governments. Using a state's financies woes as an excuse to disband unions for public employees is nothing more than a ploy. Attack the real problem with real solutions, not trumped up BS.
 
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Please stop with the references to tax cuts and GDP. That's not what this thread is about. Save that for another thread.
 
Please stop with the references to tax cuts and GDP. That's not what this thread is about. Save that for another thread.

Why don't you tell others to stop raising the issue and I will stop responding?
 
Very well then...

Although not a mod, can we try sticking to the subject at hand, please? I really detest when threads purposely get derailed...makes following the subject matter rather difficult.

(I'll take the demerit. Back to the thread...)

Just found this article concerning GOP governors rethinking their approach to public employee unions. It's very evident this isn't a sigular state issue. If it were, I'd probably have alittle bit more sympathy for Wisconsin. But it's not. It's like what AZ did in pushing for immigration reform. Once one GOP state started in a particular issue, it seems every other state with a Republican governor has strived to take up the same mantle. IMO, it's good they're rethinking the issue. Otherwise, I'm afraid a domino effect would insue and every state who tried this tactic would see the exact same counter-tactic tried (re: Wisconsin Dems walking out; it's already happened in Indiana) and state employees banning together to demonstrate. You think things got bad in Greece! GOP...keep trying to silence folks in this way and this country WILL see many more of its citizens rise up and exercise their right to peacefully assemble and have their voices heard!!!
 
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It is a scam that means nothing and shows unions and democrats do not have a leg to stand on.

What did Walker say that he has not said publicly?
 

If you include the money the state pays for the pension fund and health insurance the salary would be much higher

Liberals and union try to deceive us on this the truth is they are much better off than than the average person in Wisconsin and get 3 months a year vacation
 
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If you include the money the state pays for the pension fund and health insurance the salary would be much higher

I think that is what is meant by "wages and benefits" in the post you quoted.

Liberals and union try to deceive us on this the truth is they are much better off than than the average person in Wisconsin and get 3 months a year vacation

Do you have evidence that similarly educated people in the private sector are not paid more than those in the public sector?
 
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I think that is what is meant by "wages and benefits" in the post you quoted.



Do you have evidence that similarly educated people in the private sector are not paid more than those in the public sector?

What difference does it make? People are standing in line to be teachers. Let the market speak there like it does everywhere else. There is no direct comparison to the private sector -- OH!!! Unless you want to use private schools. And, historically, those salaries have been lower than those in public schools. So let's use those.
 

They have that is why there are right to work states where you can not be forced to join a union or be forced to pay union dues against your will
 
I would be interested to see if you have any documentation that shows that $75,000, which includes their benefits, is out of line with the average worker with 4 - 8 years of college.
Or is this just your feeling?

How about just the average wage for people in Wisconsin. Most people do not get free insurance and pension plan
 
How about just the average wage for people in Wisconsin. Most people do not get free insurance and pension plan

Maybe they should. How about a single payer system.



Just saying . . . . :coffeepap
 
I think that is what is meant by "wages and benefits" in the post you quoted.



Do you have evidence that similarly educated people in the private sector are not paid more than those in the public sector?

Why similar educated. Is that who is paying their wages. How about the average for the state they get paid from.
 

yes...let's continue our race to the bottom. when salaries fall for public school teachers, they will fall for private school teachers. then who do you think will be standing in line to teach our children?
 
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