[W:8]Gun deaths in America - a new record!

Lafayette · Dec 9, 2018

From the Guardian: 2018 is worst year on record for gun violence in schools, data shows

Excerpt:

Research cited by Sandy Hook Promise counted 94 incidents, a near 60% increase on the previous high, 59, set in 2006.

This year has been by far the worst on record for gun violence in schools, the advocacy group Sandy Hook Promise said, citing research by the US Naval Postgraduate School (NPS).

“This is beyond unacceptable,” said Nicole Hockley, co-founder and managing director of Sandy Hook Promise. “It is inexcusable. Everyone has the power to stop violence before it starts, and we want to arm as many people as possible with the knowledge of how to keep their schools and communities safe.”

Hockley’s six-year-old son, Dylan, was shot dead at Sandy Hook elementary school in Connecticut in December 2012, with 19 other children and six adult members of staff.

In response to the NPS findings and to mark the sixth anniversary of Sandy Hook, on 14 December, Sandy Hook Promise will release a jarring public service announcement.

The short film, the group says, “reveals the many warning signs and signals exhibited by an at-risk individual that can lead to gun violence – signs that SHP wants to train individuals to recognize and intervene upon before a tragedy can occur”.

It is clear that American schools are no longer safe from kids who "go bonkers" with a gun.

Instead of wasting $650B on the DoD, why not take some of that money and fund schools to implement detector entry-gates? And stores put them in for customer scrutiny and guns be no longer allowed sales in such outlets?

CLAX1911 · Dec 9, 2018

Re: Gun deaths in America - a new record!

Lafayette said:
From the Guardian: 2018 is worst year on record for gun violence in schools, data shows

Excerpt:

It is clear that American schools are no longer safe from kids who "go bonkers" with a gun.

Instead of wasting $650B on the DoD, why not take some of that money and fund schools to implement detector entry-gates?

School shootings are so unlikely and so rare it wouldn't be cost effective

Further you have to keep in mind what a school shooting is. It isn't always a student that goes bones and kills a bunch of kids, it's most likely not that. If somebody commits suicide by fire arm near a school it's considered a school shooting.

And stores put them in for customer scrutiny and guns be no longer allowed sales in such outlets?

Not sure what you mean here.
]

Crovax · Dec 9, 2018

Re: Gun deaths in America - a new record!

Lafayette said:
From the Guardian: 2018 is worst year on record for gun violence in schools, data shows

Excerpt:

It is clear that American schools are no longer safe from kids who "go bonkers" with a gun.

Instead of wasting $650B on the DoD, why not take some of that money and fund schools to implement detector entry-gates? And stores put them in for customer scrutiny and guns be no longer allowed sales in such outlets?

:rofl have you looked at that study? incidents include adults committing suicide in the parking lot during non school hours. How exactly are the kids at risk there and how will your fancy entry detector gates stop that?

Not to mention look at this graph they have

"service weapon" is not a caliber, AR-15 is not a caliber

How could you expect such morons to conduct an accurate study?

RetiredUSN · Dec 9, 2018

Re: Gun deaths in America - a new record!

Lafayette said:
From the Guardian: 2018 is worst year on record for gun violence in schools, data shows

Excerpt:

It is clear that American schools are no longer safe from kids who "go bonkers" with a gun.

Instead of wasting $650B on the DoD, why not take some of that money and fund schools to implement detector entry-gates? And stores put them in for customer scrutiny and guns be no longer allowed sales in such outlets?

Why don't we place more restrictions 1st Amendment rights while we are at it.

After all, speech can be provoking.....right? :roll:

Lafayette · Dec 9, 2018

Re: Gun deaths in America - a new record!

CLAX1911 said:
School shootings are so unlikely and so rare it wouldn't be cost effective

Further you have to keep in mind what a school shooting is. It isn't always a student that goes bones and kills a bunch of kids, it's most likely not that. If somebody commits suicide by fire arm near a school it's considered a school shooting.

Not sure what you mean here.]

Yes, it is obvious that you don't get what I "mean".

So, go ask a mother who's lost her child in such a shooting! Do you actually think - with the violence parading across television daily - that the kids are not being impacted?

You will, if and when, it's YOUR CHILD that gets killed.

So, just wait your turn and see ...

PS: The effect of electronic verifying gates is to PREVENT rapid-fire guns from entering classrooms. Yes, not all schools need one. Not until the day some kid-krackpot goes berserk.
PPS: And ask yourself why is the USA having specifically the most problem with such shootings? For your edification: How US gun culture compares with the world in five charts

Kal'Stang · Dec 9, 2018

Re: Gun deaths in America - a new record!

Lafayette said:
From the Guardian: 2018 is worst year on record for gun violence in schools, data shows

Excerpt:

It is clear that American schools are no longer safe from kids who "go bonkers" with a gun.

Instead of wasting $650B on the DoD, why not take some of that money and fund schools to implement detector entry-gates? And stores put them in for customer scrutiny and guns be no longer allowed sales in such outlets?

Read your link. I prefer what the Sandhook Promise is suggesting and combating school violence. Teaching people how to recognize the signs of a troubled youth and doing something about it before they get to the point where they turn to violence. A MUCH better solution than what you have proposed. It addresses the actual cause instead of targeting an inanimate object.

And yeah, like others have already stated. Those "60% increase" counts anything and everything related to guns regardless of the circumstance. Such as a school being closed when a bullet happens to hit the property from beyond school grounds due to some other criminal act (including defensive uses), suicide, or just plain accident. It's a misleading number designed for one purpose and one purpose only...create fear.

Lafayette · Dec 9, 2018

Re: Gun deaths in America - a new record!

Crovax said:
... have you looked at that study? incidents include adults committing suicide in the parking lot during non school hours. How exactly are the kids at risk there and how will your fancy entry detector gates stop that?

Adults don't commit murders in schools - "kids" do. And who cares what the cost is? You evidently don't have children. Or you do, and you are mindless about their safety!

Adults shooting adults and thus committing murder/mayhem are the cause of a much higher rate of gun-death in the US than any other developed nation on earth* ...

*See here: How US gun culture compares with the world in five charts

Kal'Stang · Dec 9, 2018

Re: Gun deaths in America - a new record!

Moderator's Warning:

DO NOT GO AFTER FAMILY. PERIOD. Stick to the topic that YOU created or you will be booted out of it.

Lafayette said:
Adults don't commit murders in schools - "kids" do. And who cares what the cost is? You evidently don't have children. Or you do, and you are mindless about their safety!

Adults shooting adults and thus committing murder/mayhem are the cause of a much higher rate of gun-death in the US than any other developed nation on earth ...

Crovax · Dec 9, 2018

Re: Gun deaths in America - a new record!

Lafayette said:
Adults don't commit murders in schools - "kids" do. And who cares what the cost is? You evidently don't have children. Or you do, and you are mindless about their safety!

Adults shooting adults and thus committing murder/mayhem are the cause of a much higher rate of gun-death in the US than any other developed nation on earth* ...

*See here: How US gun culture compares with the world in five charts

Big hint you are being dishonest "gun homicides"

Of course if you have more guns then more people will use that as a weapon when they do decide to kill

Why not compare all homicide rates and if you look at USA demographics vs the "developed" world the US is a lot more diverse which is where a large chunk of our crime is

If you take a section of the US that is 95% white and asian like England with similar per capita incomes and compare all manners of homicide the rate looks shockingly similar

Fletch · Dec 9, 2018

Re: Gun deaths in America - a new record!

Kal'Stang said:
Read your link. I prefer what the Sandhook Promise is suggesting and combating school violence. Teaching people how to recognize the signs of a troubled youth and doing something about it before they get to the point where they turn to violence. A MUCH better solution than what you have proposed. It addresses the actual cause instead of targeting an inanimate object.

.

Same with the Stoneman-Douglass killer. He was a troubled kid that needed help and didnt get it. Rather than address how kids like these slip through the cracks of the Nanny State, they go after guns. It just shows how the left isnt serious about helping these kids but care only about their own agenda.

ttwtt78640 · Dec 9, 2018

Cherry picking a specific (and oddly defined?) crime statistic and using a short term change in that (cooked up?) data to call for a long term, narowly targeted 'solution' is a bad idea.

There has been a rash of heavily publicized mass shootings in recent years. But those incidents, while tragic, are a tiny sliver of America’s gun homicide problem. Mayors Against Illegal Guns, analyzing FBI data, found that fewer than 1 percent of homicide victims in 2010 were killed in incidents where four or more people died.

A Congressional Research Service (CRS) report from 2013 identified 78 “public mass shootings” between 1983 and 2012, which claimed 547 lives. For context, 11,622 people (more than 20 times the mass shooting toll over three decades) died in gun homicides in 2012 alone — and murder is, in general, on the decline, so that number was higher in the 1980s and ‘90s. “While tragic and shocking, public mass shootings account for few of the murders or non-negligent homicides related to firearms that occur annually in the United States,” CRS concluded.

Some analyses find that mass shootings are, contrary to popular perception, fairly stable over time. James Alan Fox, a criminologist at Northeastern University, has found that the number of mass shooting victims, perpetrators, and incidents didn’t change much from 1980 to 2014:

https://www.vox.com/2015/10/1/18000524/mass-shootings-rare

While short-term increases in crime grab headlines, these changes should generally be viewed in the context of longer time periods to determine whether the changes reveal short-term change or long-term trends.5 Evaluating crime data in short intervals can amplify the “noise”6 in the data and make it harder to distinguish the underlying trend.7

Violent crime and homicide rates have generally trended downward since the early 1990s. Even though the violent crime and homicide rates increased from 2014 to 2015 and again from 2015 to 2016, both rates remained at levels not seen since the mid-1960s. The 2016 violent crime and homicide rates are approximately half their post-1960 highs of 758.2 per 100,000 and 10.2 per 100,000.

Even though violent crime and homicide rates have generally declined since the early 1990s, there were years when either one or both increased, before resuming the long-term decline in subsequent years. For example, the national violent crime rate increased from 2004 to 2005 and again from 2005 to 2006 before declining nearly every year thereafter.8 Similarly, the national homicide rate increased in four of the six years from 2000 to 2006, though the year-to-year increases in the rate during this span (usually 0.1 homicides per 100,000) was not as substantial as the increase from 2014 to 2015 (0.5 homicides per 100,000) or from 2015 to 2016 (0.4 homicides per 100,000).

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R45236.pdf

CLAX1911 · Dec 9, 2018

Re: Gun deaths in America - a new record!

Lafayette said:
Yes, it is obvious that you don't get what I "mean".

So, go ask a mother who's lost her child in such a shooting! Do you actually think - with the violence parading across television daily - that the kids are not being impacted?

You will, if and when, it's YOUR CHILD that gets killed.

So, just wait your turn and see ...

None of this explains the statement that I didn't know what you meant nor does it have anything to do with it.

Here it is again.

And stores put them in for customer scrutiny and guns be no longer allowed sales in such outlets?

PS: The effect of electronic verifying gates is to PREVENT rapid-fire guns from entering classrooms. Yes, not all schools need one. Not until the day some kid-krackpot goes berserk.
PPS: And ask yourself why is the USA having specifically the most problem with such shootings? For your edification: How US gun culture compares with the world in five charts

Again placing metal detectors the doorways are schools and personnel to staff them is extremely expensive and it prevents something that is profoundly rare. It isn't going to be something schools are going to do especially the ones that don't even have the budget to pay their teachers decently.

FYI I'm not reading some **** ass opinion piece on CNN. I think the problems are multifaceted unique to each situation and much more complicated than what someone can just cover in a hit piece.

RaleBulgarian · Dec 9, 2018

Re: Gun deaths in America - a new record!

CLAX1911 said:
.... If somebody commits suicide by fire arm near a school it's considered a school shooting.

Please cite a single reported example supporting your claim.

CLAX1911 · Dec 9, 2018

Re: Gun deaths in America - a new record!

RaleBulgarian said:
Please cite a single reported example supporting your claim.

Explain what is considered a school shooting.

Bullseye · Dec 9, 2018

Lafayette said:
From the Guardian: 2018 is worst year on record for gun violence in schools, data shows

Excerpt:

It is clear that American schools are no longer safe from kids who "go bonkers" with a gun.

Instead of wasting $650B on the DoD, why not take some of that money and fund schools to implement detector entry-gates? And stores put them in for customer scrutiny and guns be no longer allowed sales in such outlets?

Your thread time is a lie. You link cites data about SCHOOL shootings, or more accurately - shootings somewhere near a school whether during actual school hours or not, to include suicides.

Rucker61 · Dec 9, 2018

Bullseye said:
Your thread time is a lie. You link cites data about SCHOOL shootings, or more accurately - shootings somewhere near a school whether during actual school hours or not, to include suicides.

It's worse than that:

"The NPS database goes back to 1970 and documents any instance in which a gun is “brandished, is fired, or a bullet hits school property for any reason”, regardless of the number of victims or the day of the week."

Bullseye · Dec 9, 2018

Rucker61 said:
It's worse than that:

"The NPS database goes back to 1970 and documents any instance in which a gun is “brandished, is fired, or a bullet hits school property for any reason”, regardless of the number of victims or the day of the week."

Yeah, looking at the link shows they use a broad net to compile their data. Shooting before or after school, accidentally discharging nearby, on weekends, for example are still considered school shootings.

Bullseye · Dec 9, 2018

Re: Gun deaths in America - a new record!

Lafayette said:
Adults don't commit murders in schools - "kids" do. And who cares what the cost is? You evidently don't have children. Or you do, and you are mindless about their safety!

Adults shooting adults and thus committing murder/mayhem are the cause of a much higher rate of gun-death in the US than any other developed nation on earth* ...

*See here: How US gun culture compares with the world in five charts

Sorry, "but mommy, all the other countries are doing it" arguments pull no weight.

RaleBulgarian · Dec 9, 2018

Re: Gun deaths in America - a new record!

CLAX1911 said:
Explain what is considered a school shooting.

It sure as s**t isn’t a suicide by firearm near a school.
“A school shooting is an attack at an educational institution, such as a school or university, involving the use of a firearm(s).”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting

There are already too many (1 is too many) school shootings. No reason to make things up.

Bullseye · Dec 9, 2018

Re: Gun deaths in America - a new record!

RaleBulgarian said:
It sure as s**t isn’t a suicide by firearm near a school.
“A school shooting is an attack at an educational institution, such as a school or university, involving the use of a firearm(s).”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting

There are already too many (1 is too many) school shootings. No reason to make things up.

So, no mentions of time, day of the week, intended target or reason for shooting.

Rucker61 · Dec 9, 2018

Re: Gun deaths in America - a new record!

RaleBulgarian said:
It sure as s**t isn’t a suicide by firearm near a school.
“A school shooting is an attack at an educational institution, such as a school or university, involving the use of a firearm(s).”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting

"Everytown for Gun Safety, a gun violence prevention advocacy group, compiled the data. It defines a school shooting as any time a gun fires or discharges inside or into a building or on a campus at a high school or college."

https://www.vox.com/2018/3/5/17036856/school-shootings-gun-violence-america

RaleBulgarian · Dec 9, 2018

Re: Gun deaths in America - a new record!

Rucker61 said:
"Everytown for Gun Safety, a gun violence prevention advocacy group, compiled the data. It defines a school shooting as any time a gun fires or discharges inside or into a building or on a campus at a high school or college."

https://www.vox.com/2018/3/5/17036856/school-shootings-gun-violence-america

A concurring definition.

Well, clax1911, where’s your reference?

Rucker61 · Dec 9, 2018

Re: Gun deaths in America - a new record!

RaleBulgarian said:
A concurring definition.

Well, clax1911, where’s your reference?

Everytown concurs with clax1911.

CLAX1911 · Dec 9, 2018

Re: Gun deaths in America - a new record!

RaleBulgarian said:
It sure as s**t isn’t a suicide by firearm near a school.

claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

“A school shooting is an attack at an educational institution, such as a school or university, involving the use of a firearm(s).”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting

I don't care but wikipedia says about it. Wikipedia wasn't the source used in the o p.

There are already too many (1 is too many) school shootings. No reason to make things up.

what am I making up why are you accusing me of things?

I'm just wondering what the source in the op considers a school shooting. If you can't tell me that why in the hell are you talkin to me?

RaleBulgarian · Dec 10, 2018

Re: Gun deaths in America - a new record!

Bullseye said:
So, no mentions of time, day of the week, intended target or reason for shooting.

What does this ^^ have to do with the definition of a school shooting?

Rucker61 said:
Everytown concurs with clax1911.

No, it doesn’t. From your everytown reference: “It defines a school shooting as any time a gun fires or discharges inside or into a building or on a campus at a high school or college.” Clax1911 said that if a suicide by firearm occurs near a school it is considered a school shooting.

CLAX1911 said:
I don't care but wikipedia says about it. Wikipedia wasn't the source used in the o p.
what am I making up why are you accusing me of things?
I'm just wondering what the source in the op considers a school shooting. If you can't tell me that why in the hell are you talkin to me?

1. You don’t accept what Wikipedia says, but you’ll accept what the Guardian, a UK based organization, says?
2. You made up your assertion that a suicide by firearm near a school is considered a school shooting. It doesn’t say that in OP’s reference or anywhere else that I’m aware of.
3. I’m addressing you because you are attempting to spread misinformation.

[W:8]Gun deaths in America - a new record!

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