[W: #795] [W: #1002] The Trinity

[Overitall]

Yep, and the rest is history...

Daisy, have you ever read Babylon Mystery Religion by Ralph Woodrow?



I read it when I was a teenager. Thought it was good enough to share with my RCC devoted stepfather who was shocked by what he read.

 

[tosca1]

I was raised in the RCC and the Trinity always was messed up by my reckoning. I could never suspend my thinking for blind faith in a mystery, which was what I was told to do by authoritarians.

The Trinity wasn't taught only in the RCC.

 

[Daisy]

Daisy, have you ever read Babylon Mystery Religion by Ralph Woodrow?



I read it when I was a teenager. Thought it was good enough to share with my RCC devoted stepfather who was shocked by what he read.

I have not but I'll check it out...thanks!

 

[Overitall]

I have not but I'll check it out...thanks!

You're probably familiar with all the subjects he covers, but it's a real eye opener to those that aren't, (if they have eyes to see).

 

[Overitall]

According to 1 Corinthians 5:7 Jesus was our Passover.

“Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:”

The Passover was always a lamb taken out from the flock to atone for the sins of man. This subject is intricately intertwined with the subject of the Trinity for, if Jesus was God, it could not be said that He was ever one of the flock. Thus, understanding the significance of the Passover is necessary to put together a coherent belief that makes sense.

There are two significant aspects of this Passover lamb: its flesh and its blood. The only time God had anything to do with either was when He (figuratively) took dirt from the ground forming the body of Adam and breathed in his nostrils the "breath of life". The life of the flesh being in the blood. Nothing from the history of mankind prevented God from performing the same act. Nothing except that would negate the Messiah from being the Passover lamb. He would not have come from the flock, but directly from God Himself.

This is just a few things to consider when thinking about the Trinity. Could Jesus be the sacrificial lamb of God (the Passover lamb) if the Passover lamb was God?

 

[Revelation]

According to 1 Corinthians 5:7 Jesus was our Passover.

“Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:”

The Passover was always a lamb taken out from the flock to atone for the sins of man. This subject is intricately intertwined with the subject of the Trinity for, if Jesus was God, it could not be said that He was ever one of the flock. Thus, understanding the significance of the Passover is necessary to put together a coherent belief that makes sense.

There are two significant aspects of this Passover lamb: its flesh and its blood. The only time God had anything to do with either was when He (figuratively) took dirt from the ground forming the body of Adam and breathed in his nostrils the "breath of life". The life of the flesh being in the blood. Nothing from the history of mankind prevented God from performing the same act. Nothing except that would negate the Messiah from being the Passover lamb. He would not have come from the flock, but directly from God Himself.

This is just a few things to consider when thinking about the Trinity. Could Jesus be the sacrificial lamb of God (the Passover lamb) if the Passover lamb was God?

interesting; we are the Bride of Christ.

Jesus is also our Brother...

Mark 3:34 And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

 

[Overitall]

interesting; we are the Bride of Christ.

Actually we are the "body of Christ". Those of Israel make up the "bride of Christ". It's a subtle difference, but important one.

Jesus is also our Brother...

Mark 3:34 And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

I'm not sure what point you were going for here.

 

[Revelation]

Actually we are the "body of Christ". Those of Israel make up the "bride of Christ". It's a subtle difference, but important one.

I'm not sure what point you were going for here.

good question.

i was responding to your quote, but it isn't clear at the moment what that was. it may come back to me; should have elaborated i spose.

 

[tosca1]

Actually we are the "body of Christ". Those of Israel make up the "bride of Christ". It's a subtle difference, but important one.

I'm not sure what point you were going for here.

The CHURCH is the bride of Christ.
The Church is the body of believers.






The imagery and symbolism of marriage is applied to Christ and the body of believers known as the church. The church is comprised of those who have trusted in Jesus Christ as their personal Savior and have received eternal life.

The New Jerusalem is not the church, but it takes on some of the church’s characteristics. In his vision of the end of the age, the apostle John sees the city coming down from heaven adorned “as a bride,” meaning that the city will be gloriously radiant and the inhabitants of the city, the redeemed of the Lord, will be holy and pure, wearing white garments of holiness and righteousness. Some have misinterpreted verse 9 to mean the holy city is the bride of Christ, but that cannot be because Christ died for His people, not for a city. The city is called the bride because it encompasses all who are the bride, just as all the students of a school are sometimes called “the school.”

Believers in Jesus Christ are the bride of Christ, and we wait with great anticipation for the day when we will be united with our Bridegroom. Until then, we remain faithful to Him and say with all the redeemed of the Lord, “Come, Lord Jesus!” (Revelation 22:20).

What does it mean that the church is the bride of Christ? | GotQuestions.org

What does it mean that the church is the bride of Christ? Is the church Christ’s body, Christ’s bride, or both?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[tosca1]

According to 1 Corinthians 5:7 Jesus was our Passover.

“Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:”

The Passover was always a lamb taken out from the flock to atone for the sins of man. This subject is intricately intertwined with the subject of the Trinity for, if Jesus was God, it could not be said that He was ever one of the flock. Thus, understanding the significance of the Passover is necessary to put together a coherent belief that makes sense.

There are two significant aspects of this Passover lamb: its flesh and its blood. The only time God had anything to do with either was when He (figuratively) took dirt from the ground forming the body of Adam and breathed in his nostrils the "breath of life". The life of the flesh being in the blood. Nothing from the history of mankind prevented God from performing the same act. Nothing except that would negate the Messiah from being the Passover lamb. He would not have come from the flock, but directly from God Himself.

This is just a few things to consider when thinking about the Trinity. Could Jesus be the sacrificial lamb of God (the Passover lamb) if the Passover lamb was God?

It doesn't negate the Trinity at all.





Christ (God in human form), had sacrificed Himself for us.
That's how GOD can purely make claim with all honesty that ........................................HE LOVES US.



John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.




It was God, who died for us - in the person of Jesus (The Word), who came to us as The Son of GOD.




1 Timothy 3
15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
16 Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great:

He appeared in the flesh,
was vindicated by the Spirit,[d]
was seen by angels,
was preached among the nations,
was believed on in the world,
was taken up in glory.

 

[tosca1]

According to 1 Corinthians 5:7 Jesus was our Passover.

“Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:”

The Passover was always a lamb taken out from the flock to atone for the sins of man. This subject is intricately intertwined with the subject of the Trinity for, if Jesus was God, it could not be said that He was ever one of the flock. Thus, understanding the significance of the Passover is necessary to put together a coherent belief that makes sense.

There are two significant aspects of this Passover lamb: its flesh and its blood. The only time God had anything to do with either was when He (figuratively) took dirt from the ground forming the body of Adam and breathed in his nostrils the "breath of life". The life of the flesh being in the blood. Nothing from the history of mankind prevented God from performing the same act. Nothing except that would negate the Messiah from being the Passover lamb. He would not have come from the flock, but directly from God Himself.

This is just a few things to consider when thinking about the Trinity. Could Jesus be the sacrificial lamb of God (the Passover lamb) if the Passover lamb was God?

There are many statements from Christ that clearly refers to the Trinity.
They come from various verses that are related and corroborative of one another.

Just another example (aside from 1 Timothy 3 above):



Regarding Jesus Christ

John’s fourteenth chapter is a wellspring of learning about how Jesus did and will manifest Himself.
In John 14:21, Jesus said whoever knows His commandments and obeys them loves Him. He followed that by saying the Father will love whoever loves Jesus, as will Jesus, who will “manifest Myself to him.”
As with the Father, Jesus reveals Himself (1) because He is God, (2) because He is worthy of all worship, and (3) to give us the way to manifest Him through our lives.

Judas (not Iscariot) asked Jesus in John 14:22 how He would manifest Himself to the disciples and not to the world. But Jesus, in answering Him, indicated the Father’s words, presence, and peace would fill them with the coming of the Holy Spirit. He closes the conversation by telling His disciples He does what the Father commands Him “so that the world may know that I love the Father” (John 14:31). His manifestation in this sense is a revelation to the world both through His atoning work and through His disciples (see also John 17).



Regarding the Holy Spirit

Jesus, in John 14:26, told Judas the Holy Spirit will come in His name (as sent by the Father).
The Holy Spirit would manifest Christ to them by teaching and helping them remember all Jesus said to them.

What Does Manifest Mean, and How Does It Help Us See God More Clearly? - Topical Studies

Christians are to walk with Christ, manifesting His presence through our actions. Through the Spirit’s presence and work in us (John 15:26, Ephesians 1:13-14), we are able to provide unbelievers (and believers, too) with a visible manifestation of Christi...

www.biblestudytools.com

 

[tosca1]

Actually we are the "body of Christ".

That is true.
We are both. The Body of Christ, and the Bride of Christ.

Imho:
Mankind's relationship with GOD has been allegorized by marriage.
Thus God, refers to "adultery" when He talked about the unfaithfulness of Israel in the Old Testament.

Believers in Jesus are united with Christ, as husbands and wives are united as one flesh.
Thus, we are referred to as the "Body of Christ."





The Church may be called the Body of Christ because of these facts:

1) Members of the Body of Christ are joined to Christ in salvation (Ephesians 4:15-16).

2) Members of the Body of Christ follow Christ as their Head (Ephesians 1:22-23).

3) Members of the Body of Christ are the physical representation of Christ in this world.
The Church is the organism through which Christ manifests His life to the world today.

4) Members of the Body of Christ are indwelt by the Holy Spirit of Christ (Romans 8:9).

5) Members of the Body of Christ possess a diversity of gifts suited to particular functions (1 Corinthians 12:4-31).
“The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ” (verse 12).

6) Members of the Body of Christ share a common bond with all other Christians, regardless of background, race, or ministry.
“There should be no division in the body, but . . . its parts should have equal concern for each other” (1 Corinthians 12:25).

7) Members of the Body of Christ are secure in their salvation (John 10:28-30).
For a Christian to lose his salvation, God would have to perform an “amputation” on the Body of Christ!

8) Members of the Body of Christ partake of Christ’s death and resurrection (Colossians 2:12).

9) Members of the Body of Christ share Christ’s inheritance (Romans 8:17).

10) Members of the Body of Christ receive the gift of Christ’s righteousness (Romans 5:17).

How is the church the Body of Christ? | GotQuestions.org

How is the church the Body of Christ? What are the implications of the church being the Body of Christ?

www.gotquestions.org

Those of Israel make up the "bride of Christ". It's a subtle difference, but important one.

I'm not sure what point you were going for here.

The difference isn't subtle.
The difference is the............................................... MESSIAH.


He died for all men - not only Israel.


Being the "bride of Christ," refers to believers in Christ - and it has been extended to include gentiles who believe in Christ.


Thus we have become CO-HEIRS with Israel.
We and Israel (believers in Christ), are all ONE BODY of Christ.





Ephesians 3:6

This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

 

[Daisy]

The words “church” and “churches” occur over 110 times in the King James Version. Other translations also use these terms. The Greek word translated “church” literally means “a calling forth,” or, in other words, a gathering of people. For example, Acts 7:38, in the King James Version, tells of Moses being “in the church in the wilderness,” that is, among the congregated nation of Israel. In another instance the Scriptures state that “a bitter persecution started against the church,” referring to the community of Christians in Jerusalem. (Acts 8:1, The Jerusalem Bible) In one of his letters, Paul greets “the church in [Philemon’s] house,” the local congregation that met there.—Philemon 2, Revised Standard Version.

Clearly, the term “church” as used in the Bible designates, not a place of worship, but rather a group of worshipers. Acknowledging this, Clement of Alexandria, a second-century religious teacher, wrote: “Not the place, but the congregation of the elect, I call the Church.”
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102001164

 

[tosca1]

Clearly, the term “church” as used in the Bible designates, not a place of worship, but rather a group of worshipers.

Not a group of worshippers.


The CHURCH is a term used to refer to all those who are saved.



That is consistent with Christians being the temple of GOD.



In 1 Corinthians 3:16–17, the apostle Paul hit on the true nature of the church as the body of Christ when he asked, “Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are” (NKJV).

We are the temple of God means that we—Christians, believers in Jesus Christ—who are joined together in one family as “the church” are a holy dwelling place for God’s presence.


This passage is part of a more extensive teaching on maintaining unity and not letting the church become divided over loyalties to human leadership (1 Corinthians 3:1–23).


The sacredness of God’s house requires extreme care from church leaders.
The Corinthian leaders needed to safeguard the unity of God’s temple, and the believers needed to avoid any moral corruption that would “defile” the sacredness of “the temple of God.”

What does it mean that we are the temple of God (1 Corinthians 3:16)? | GotQuestions.org

What does it mean that we are the temple of God? What is the meaning of 1 Corinthians 3:16?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[tosca1]

Something for anti-Trinitarians to ponder on................................. why it shouldn't be so surprising that JESUS (The Word made flesh), would walk among His people.




From humanity’s beginning, God has desired to live among and commune with His people. In the Garden of Eden, God walked and talked with Adam in Eve in the cool of the day (Genesis 3:8).
When He made His covenant with Israel, the Lord promised, “I will put my dwelling place among you. . . . I will walk among you and be your God, and you will be my people” (Leviticus 26:11–12).


As the Israelites wandered in the desert, God wanted to inhabit a place with His people (Exodus 25:8).
At that time, the people lived in portable tents, so the presence of God dwelled in the tent of the wilderness tabernacle (Exodus 27:21; 40:34–38).
His presence was the guiding force that told the people when to stay put and when to pull up stakes and continue on their journey (Exodus 40:34–38).
Later, after the Hebrew people entered the Promised Land and lived in fixed dwellings, God affixed His name to a place, sanctifying Solomon’s temple as the Lord’s holy dwelling place (1 Kings 8:10–11).



In the New Testament, God’s presence was manifested in a new way: in the person of Jesus Christ—the Logos, who is the living, incarnate, eternal Word of God (John 1:1–4, 14–18).
The Logos took on human flesh and made His home among us. Through the life and ministry of Jesus Christ, God lived among His people.
His name is Immanuel, meaning “God with us” (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:21–23).

What does it mean that we are the temple of God (1 Corinthians 3:16)? | GotQuestions.org

What does it mean that we are the temple of God? What is the meaning of 1 Corinthians 3:16?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Overitall]

The words “church” and “churches” occur over 110 times in the King James Version. Other translations also use these terms. The Greek word translated “church” literally means “a calling forth,” or, in other words, a gathering of people. For example, Acts 7:38, in the King James Version, tells of Moses being “in the church in the wilderness,” that is, among the congregated nation of Israel. In another instance the Scriptures state that “a bitter persecution started against the church,” referring to the community of Christians in Jerusalem. (Acts 8:1, The Jerusalem Bible) In one of his letters, Paul greets “the church in [Philemon’s] house,” the local congregation that met there.—Philemon 2, Revised Standard Version.

Clearly, the term “church” as used in the Bible designates, not a place of worship, but rather a group of worshipers. Acknowledging this, Clement of Alexandria, a second-century religious teacher, wrote: “Not the place, but the congregation of the elect, I call the Church.”
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102001164

Iirc, the Greek word is ekklesia, simply defined as "called out". It denotes a separation from one classification into another.

The Gospels make it clear that Jesus's ministry was to Israel. He came to call them out from among all men. It wasn't revealed until after Pentecost that Salvation was also extended to the Gentiles. Paul chastised Peter for his discrimination towards them, but it was part of the Jews instruction/doctrine not to associate with Gentiles. It was a big deal for them to be included into the fold once they accepted Christ as their Saviour and many Christian Jews had a problem with it.

In this "new Church" both Jews and gentiles became one as the "body of Christ", not "Bride of Christ". The latter pertains to Jews.

 

[Revelation]

Not a group of worshippers.


The CHURCH is a term used to refer to all those who are saved.

yes Tosca, there is a church universal. we kinda live together in One Fine Place on golden streets.
however as you read the New Testament, Paul also refers to the church at various cities; so church has a dual meaning: the Local church and the Universal church.

1 Corinthians 1:2 - "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth , to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's."
1 Thessalonians 1:1 - "Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ"

my point is that we need Local Churches to be God's hands to his people and the Universal church for a world wide vision and finally on to our final home.

blessings.

That is consistent with Christians being the temple of GOD.



In 1 Corinthians 3:16–17, the apostle Paul hit on the true nature of the church as the body of Christ when he asked, “Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are” (NKJV).

We are the temple of God means that we—Christians, believers in Jesus Christ—who are joined together in one family as “the church” are a holy dwelling place for God’s presence.


This passage is part of a more extensive teaching on maintaining unity and not letting the church become divided over loyalties to human leadership (1 Corinthians 3:1–23).


The sacredness of God’s house requires extreme care from church leaders.
The Corinthian leaders needed to safeguard the unity of God’s temple, and the believers needed to avoid any moral corruption that would “defile” the sacredness of “the temple of God.”

What does it mean that we are the temple of God (1 Corinthians 3:16)? | GotQuestions.org

What does it mean that we are the temple of God? What is the meaning of 1 Corinthians 3:16?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[it's just me]

yes Tosca, there is a church universal. we kinda live together in One Fine Place on golden streets.
however as you read the New Testament, Paul also refers to the church at various cities; so church has a dual meaning: the Local church and the Universal church.

1 Corinthians 1:2 - "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth , to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's."
1 Thessalonians 1:1 - "Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ"

my point is that we need Local Churches to be God's hands to his people and the Universal church for a world wide vision and finally on to our final home.

blessings.

There are two Churches, the invisible Church and the visible Church.

 

[Revelation]

There are two Churches, the invisible Church and the visible Church.

thanks.

please expound on the invisible church if you will.

 

[Daisy]

The latter pertains to Jews.

We understand the 'Bride of Christ" to be pertaining to the 144,000/the new spiritual nation Jesus spoke of in Matthew 21:23...

"This is why I say to you, the Kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits."

 

[Overitall]

We understand the 'Bride of Christ" to be pertaining to the 144,000/the new spiritual nation Jesus spoke of in Matthew 21:23...

"This is why I say to you, the Kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits."

Is it not possible that the 144,000 consists of those who lived during the presence of Jesus during his earthly ministry? The problem I have with JW viewpoint on this matter is reconciling it with what Romans 2:10-14 says. Especially verse 11.

10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God. 12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

The 144,000 is easier to affix if you keep it with a specific time period. Since Pentecost, millions have accepted Christ.

 

[Daisy]

Is it not possible that the 144,000 consists of those who lived during the presence of Jesus during his earthly ministry?

Oh, they did...that is when the number began to be gathered, when the new covenant was 1st put into action, right down to our day...

"However, it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who descend from Israel are really “Israel.” Romans 9:6

"Symeon has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name." Acts 15:14

This new people bearing Jehovah’s name, referred to as “the Israel of God,” that is, spiritual Israel, would now also include non-Jewish believers. (Ga 6:16; Ro 11:25, 26a; Re 14:1) They were to declare the praises of the One they represented and were to glorify his name publicly. (1Pe 2:9, 10) As had been true of fleshly Israel, members of spiritual Israel were the ones Jehovah called “the people whom I formed for myself so that they might declare my praise.” (Isa 43:21) Those early Christians boldly proclaimed that Jehovah is the one true God, exposing as false all the gods that were being worshipped at that time.—1Th 1:9.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/b/r1/lp-e/nwtsty/44/15#s=14&study=discover&v=44:15:14

 

[Overitall]

Oh, they did...that is when the number began to be gathered, when the new covenant was 1st put into action, right down to our day...

"However, it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who descend from Israel are really “Israel.” Romans 9:6

"Symeon has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name." Acts 15:14

This new people bearing Jehovah’s name, referred to as “the Israel of God,” that is, spiritual Israel, would now also include non-Jewish believers. (Ga 6:16; Ro 11:25, 26a; Re 14:1) They were to declare the praises of the One they represented and were to glorify his name publicly. (1Pe 2:9, 10) As had been true of fleshly Israel, members of spiritual Israel were the ones Jehovah called “the people whom I formed for myself so that they might declare my praise.” (Isa 43:21) Those early Christians boldly proclaimed that Jehovah is the one true God, exposing as false all the gods that were being worshipped at that time.—1Th 1:9.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/b/r1/lp-e/nwtsty/44/15#s=14&study=discover&v=44:15:14

I can see you're fully persuaded on this matter. I'm not sure I will ever be likewise, but it's not something that is going to drive a wedge between us. There's so many other things we are likeminded on. I would be interested in you, perhaps, starting another thread elaborating on this subject. It's worth considering.

 

[Daisy]

I can see you're fully persuaded on this matter. I'm not sure I will ever be likewise, but it's not something that is going to drive a wedge between us. There's so many other things we are likeminded on. I would be interested in you, perhaps, starting another thread elaborating on this subject. It's worth considering.

Agreed...

 

[tosca1]

yes Tosca, there is a church universal. we kinda live together in One Fine Place on golden streets.
however as you read the New Testament, Paul also refers to the church at various cities; so church has a dual meaning: the Local church and the Universal church.

1 Corinthians 1:2 - "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth , to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's."
1 Thessalonians 1:1 - "Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ"

my point is that we need Local Churches to be God's hands to his people and the Universal church for a world wide vision and finally on to our final home.

blessings.

Whether we're talking about the universal Church, or particular churches..................................it still boils down to pertain to........................ those who are saved.
Let me just make this clear:
I'm not saying we don't need local churches. I'm not saying local churches mean nothing.




I'm saying, not all worshippers make the embodiment of The Church.
First of all - what, or who do they worship?
Second: what does the church teach? What do the member(s) teach?




Matthew 7

True and False Prophets​

15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

True and False Disciples​

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’




Case in point: the 7 churches in the Book of Revelation.


Revelation 1
10 On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,
11 which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.”

Most, have been called to REPENT.



Refer to Revelation 2 and 3.