[W:59] ***If reading only one article this year...

[truthatallcost]

Re: If reading only one article this year...

Don't think we can't recognize deflecting, Ivan.

So, now you're 'we', and I'm 'Ivan'..... But who is the Eggman? The Walrus?

Of course Putin would want his next puppet to be Marine Le Pen. You expect us to think it's a coincidence, that Le Pen is grotesquely Putin-apologetic? A French fascist leader suddenly defending the psychopath in the Kremlin? She has even renamed her fascist party National Union. Some of us can do the math.

But can you do the spelling? Le Pen belongs to the National Rally party, not the National Union, which was a Norwegian party that's been defunct for 74 years. Which website did you find this conspiracy theory on? I'm serious, I'd like to see it.

This is how Putin works. He even lined up kompromat'ed Boris Johnson to conquer No. 10 after Brexit.

Hahaha. That's silly. Of all people to back, Johnson would be the poorest choice among leading conservatives.

And I'm so sorry, that that was tanked by the evil Western leaders. Now that Putin's big mission hasn't been completed yet.

Nor will it. Putin's speech (from 14 years ago) was aimed at driving up his popularity with older Russians who we're nostalgic for the old USSR. I don't believe Putin has any intention of doing away with his oligarch benefactors, and his beyond lavish lifestyle. Anyway, those who held this nostalgia are fewer in number these days, so you can once again put the nightmares to rest.

 

[CEngelbrecht]

Re: If reading only one article this year...

So, now you're 'we', and I'm 'Ivan'..... But who is the Eggman? The Walrus?

♪ It was a wicked and wild wind ♪
♪ Blew down the doors to let me in ♪
♪ Shattered windows and the sound of drums ♪
♪ People couldn't believe what I'd become ♪

♪ Revolutionaries wait ♪
♪ For my head on a silver plate ♪
♪ Just a puppet on a lonely string ♪
♪ Oh, who would ever want to be king? ♪

But can you do the spelling? Le Pen belongs to the National Rally party, not the National Union, which was a Norwegian party that's been defunct for 74 years. Which website did you find this conspiracy theory on? I'm serious, I'd like to see it.

Take your pick.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43364931
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ew-name-front-national-rassemblement-national

"Rassemblement National" France 2018 = "Nasjonal Samling" Norway 1933. Litterally the same name.

Hahaha. That's silly. Of all people to back, Johnson would be the poorest choice among leading conservatives.

So was Trump.



"Look at what happened in Sweden yesterday!"
- Trump, February 2017
"Did something happen in Sweden yesterday?"
- The bewildered public, the day after
("Pst! We haven't done that attack yet, you moron!")
- The FSB

The attack didn't occur untill April in Stockholm.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Stockholm_attack

Nor will it. Putin's speech (from 14 years ago) was aimed at driving up his popularity with older Russians who we're nostalgic for the old USSR. I don't believe Putin has any intention of doing away with his oligarch benefactors, and his beyond lavish lifestyle. Anyway, those who held this nostalgia are fewer in number these days, so you can once again put the nightmares to rest.

Apart from the tanks lined up at the Baltic borders, ready to roll in like Hungary 1956. Old habits die hard.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

Re: If reading only one article this year...

Which political ideology doesn't 'fail the poor'? They all do, AFAIK. The Communists in Russia gained enough support to effect revolution based on the idea of evening the scales, and millions starved to death as a result.




As it always has, and always will. The poor in my country and yours do not suffer the way that the poor in our countries did at one time. No one is starving in France. No one is dying from plague in France. I think some political ideologies are so focused on the poor, that they might disappear if poverty were ever solved. Those same ideologies have a vested interest in adding to the number of poor people, so they'll join the political party dedicated to the poor. It's a mindless circle which keeps repeating.

Now if you argued rationally like this all the time you'd have more credibility and respect than you do.

Of course all systems stink, it is a question of which one stinks the least.

You mention communism and Russia, however we all know the Soviet Union was communist in name only. People love holding up the Soviet Union as the definitive version of Communism, but really, that's not what modern Communist theory is about. I have gone on about this ad nauseum in other threads, but read people like Arlette Laguiller for a broader idea. Good things have been achieved under communist governments in Kerala, and (I'm biased) the ex YU for all its faults (don't come back with your usual shot about the civil war, which was caused by nationalism not communism).

Our current systems ARE failing the poor, and I think we'll see a massive paradigm shift in the near future. The scary thing is, we don't know quite which way things will go.

Brexit & the government shutdown haven't motivated people to riot for months on end. Something else is occurring in France, or maybe you guys just like rioting :lol:




It's about a missed opportunity, imo. Would Le Pen have gone along with the tax on gasoline? Would she have been a fruity poof spending $30,000 per month on makeup? I doubt it. She's more of a man than Macron is, which should excite your feminist background to no end.

Now you go downhill again.

Yes the French do take to the streets often. They don't take things lying down. How do poor white folks in the US react to injustice? By voting Trump?

Le Pen has no clear policies but would probably not have introduced a carbon tax. Climate change is not high on her agenda.

"Fruity poof" is an insult. I addressed the issue of Macron's make-up bill back in the appropriate thread at the time.

 

[truthatallcost]

Re: If reading only one article this year...

♪ It was a wicked and wild wind ♪
♪ Blew down the doors to let me in ♪
♪ Shattered windows and the sound of drums ♪
♪ People couldn't believe what I'd become ♪

♪ Revolutionaries wait ♪
♪ For my head on a silver plate ♪
♪ Just a puppet on a lonely string ♪
♪ Oh, who would ever want to be king? ♪

Threatened by shadows at night, and exposed in the light.
Shine on you crazy diamond.

Well you wore out your welcome with random precision,
Rode on the steel breeze.
Come on you raver, you seer of visions,
Come on you painter, you piper, you prisoner, and shine!]

Take your pick.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43364931
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ew-name-front-national-rassemblement-national

"Rassemblement National" France 2018 = "Nasjonal Samling" Norway 1933. Litterally the same name.

Link #1- no mention of the Norwegian National Union party
Link #2- no mention of the Norwegian National Union party

Rassemblement translates to 'rally' in English & Norwegian, not 'union'. The Guardian has failed you.

So was Trump.

China wanted Hillary Clinton to win. So?

"Look at what happened in Sweden yesterday!"
- Trump, February 2017
"Did something happen in Sweden yesterday?"
- The bewildered public, the day after
("Pst! We haven't done that attack yet, you moron!")
- The FSB


The attack didn't occur untill April in Stockholm.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Stockholm_attack

Do you believe that Putin is behind Islamic terrorist attacks in Europe? You realize that this idea is more absurd than Trump's gaffe, one would hope. The Stockholm truck terrorist deliberately ran over Swedish mothers and their babies, saying that he wanted to kill Swedish babies. Are you so far gone as to accuse Putin of this monstrous, disgusting event?

Apart from the tanks lined up at the Baltic borders, ready to roll in like Hungary 1956. Old habits die hard.

That's the same hysteria used by Guy Verhofstadt. He's Boris Johnson's dumber twin brother.

 

[CEngelbrecht]

Re: If reading only one article this year...

Threatened by shadows at night, and exposed in the light.
Shine on you crazy diamond.

Well you wore out your welcome with random precision,
Rode on the steel breeze.
Come on you raver, you seer of visions,
Come on you painter, you piper, you prisoner, and shine!

♪ Did you try to live on your own ♪
♪ When you burned down the house and home? ♪
♪ Did you stand too close to the fire? ♪
♪ Like a liar looking for forgiveness from a stone ♪

Rassemblement translates to 'rally' in English & Norwegian, not 'union'. The Guardian has failed you.

Nope. French "rassemblement", in this organization context, translates into Norwegian "samling" and English "union".

China wanted Hillary Clinton to win.

Uhuh.

Do you believe that Putin is behind Islamic terrorist attacks in Europe? You realize that this idea is more absurd than Trump's gaffe, one would hope. The Stockholm truck terrorist deliberately ran over Swedish mothers and their babies, saying that he wanted to kill Swedish babies.

Yeah, so you say.

"Look at what happened in Sweden yesterday..." (A full two months before it happened.)

Are you so far gone as to accuse Putin of this monstrous, disgusting event?

Does the name Marinus van der Lubbe mean anything to you?

 

[truthatallcost]

Re: If reading only one article this year...

♪ Did you try to live on your own ♪
♪ When you burned down the house and home? ♪
♪ Did you stand too close to the fire? ♪
♪ Like a liar looking for forgiveness from a stone ♪



Nope. French "rassemblement", in this organization context, translates into Norwegian "samling" and English "union".



Uhuh.

Yeah, so you say.

"Look at what happened in Sweden yesterday..." (A full two months before it happened.)



Does the name Marinus van der Lubbe mean anything to you?

You believe Donald Trump conspires with Vladimir Putin in order to stage Islamic terrorist attacks. There's not much else to say here.
You're indeed too far gone from reality at this point.

 

[truthatallcost]

Re: If reading only one article this year...

Now if you argued rationally like this all the time you'd have more credibility and respect than you do.

Of course all systems stink, it is a question of which one stinks the least.

You mention communism and Russia, however we all know the Soviet Union was communist in name only. People love holding up the Soviet Union as the definitive version of Communism, but really, that's not what modern Communist theory is about.

OK then, forget about the Soviet Union for a minute. The same catastrophic results regarding poverty, death, and human rights abuses were achieved under Maoist Communism in China. Maoism purported to honor the lower working class to a higher degree than Lenin's version of Marxism, yet during a short period of only 4 years, Mao managed to kill off 45 million. In fact, you'll never hear about this today, but genocide is built into Marxism's earliest roots, having been supported by Marx and Engels in the 19th century to rid Europe of their particular scapegoat, which was Slavic people. And what fate would have befallen Germany had the communists bested the fascists during the race for German revolution? The holocaust would have consisted of ethnic German Catholics and Lutherans, and today's would-be communists would have no scapegoat to whip.

Please enlighten me to how modern communist theory differs from the many failed prior attempts.

 

[CEngelbrecht]

Re: If reading only one article this year...

You believe Donald Trump conspires with Vladimir Putin in order to stage Islamic terrorist attacks. There's not much else to say here.
You're indeed too far gone from reality at this point.

I don't think Trump is capable of conspiring about a god damned thing. As the Sweden debacle clearly showed, he can't even follow a bleedin' time plan!

 

[Urethra Franklin]

Re: If reading only one article this year...

OK then, forget about the Soviet Union for a minute. The same catastrophic results regarding poverty, death, and human rights abuses were achieved under Maoist Communism in China. Maoism purported to honor the lower working class to a higher degree than Lenin's version of Marxism, yet during a short period of only 4 years, Mao managed to kill off 45 million. In fact, you'll never hear about this today, but genocide is built into Marxism's earliest roots, having been supported by Marx and Engels in the 19th century to rid Europe of their particular scapegoat, which was Slavic people. And what fate would have befallen Germany had the communists bested the fascists during the race for German revolution? The holocaust would have consisted of ethnic German Catholics and Lutherans, and today's would-be communists would have no scapegoat to whip.

Please enlighten me to how modern communist theory differs from the many failed prior attempts.

I have never held up Maoism as an example, and your dodgy references to the 19th century and the holocaust are hardly contemporary are they? If you really wish to enlighten yourself I refer you to my numerous posts in this thread:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/reli...ntellect-w-114-1607-a-213.html#post1066901747

However, I doubt you're really that interested.

 

[truthatallcost]

Re: If reading only one article this year...

I don't think Trump is capable of conspiring about a god damned thing. As the Sweden debacle clearly showed, he can't even follow a bleedin' time plan!

Sweden was once the safest country in the world. It's not anymore, and those who effected that change will target Finland, Norway, and Iceland for diversification next. When the bombs go off in Reykjavik, you'll shout 'Putin!', while the real conspirators shout 'mozaltov!' :lol:

 

[CEngelbrecht]

Re: If reading only one article this year...

Sweden was once the safest country in the world. It's not anymore, and those who effected that change will target Finland, Norway, and Iceland for diversification next. When the bombs go off in Reykjavik, you'll shout 'Putin!', while the real conspirators shout 'mozaltov!' :lol:

A new VE day in Europa, when Pewtin dangles from the walls of the Kremlin.

 

[CEngelbrecht]

Re: If reading only one article this year...

Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing?
Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing?
Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing?
Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing?
They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow;
The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow.
Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning,
Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?

 

[truthatallcost]

Re: If reading only one article this year...

A new VE day in Europa, when Pewtin dangles from the walls of the Kremlin.

But Putin is all-powerful, remember? He orchestrates terror attacks in Sweden, has them blamed on lslamists, with Trump's approval, according to you. How are you going to dangle him?

 

[truthatallcost]

Re: If reading only one article this year...

I have never held up Maoism as an example, and your dodgy references to the 19th century and the holocaust are hardly contemporary are they? If you really wish to enlighten yourself I refer you to my numerous posts in this thread:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/reli...ntellect-w-114-1607-a-213.html#post1066901747

However, I doubt you're really that interested.

I'm interested, and read your dialogue with the Tigerace, which I assume makes up the bulk of what you were referring to. Is this the model you'd like France and Europe to adopt? I'm unsure because you haven't specified exactly. Thank you.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Socialist_Federal_Republic_of_Yugoslavia

 

[truthatallcost]

Re: If reading only one article this year...

Now you go downhill again.

Yes the French do take to the streets often. They don't take things lying down. How do poor white folks in the US react to injustice? By voting Trump?

They don't riot, it's just not part of the social fabric for 'poor whites' in this country. And yes, many of them voted for Donald Trump because he's been the first President since Kennedy to show any concern for them whatsoever. Whether Trump is sincere in that concern is probably something you and I could agree on, but he capitalized quite well on focusing his rhetoric on matters appealing to a forgotten, and often hated demographic. Coming from the business world, he knew that success is to be found by tapping into underserved markets.

Le Pen has no clear policies but would probably not have introduced a carbon tax. Climate change is not high on her agenda.

"Fruity poof" is an insult. I addressed the issue of Macron's make-up bill back in the appropriate thread at the time.

Then a Le Pen presidency likely wouldn't have included the Gilets Jaunes movement. Would Le Pen not also had been France's first female President? Remarkable progress was cast aside in favor of the fruity pebble (better?) with a nose for money and beauty products. Of course, all Presidents are susceptible to the temptation of graft, but at least Le Pen could have made history as a strong woman willing to make the much needed changes that are necessary to restore France to it's unique place in the world of being an epicenter of culture, arts, and good living, instead of the poster child for the inability to practice reasonable restraints.

 

[CEngelbrecht]

Re: If reading only one article this year...

But Putin is all-powerful, remember? He orchestrates terror attacks in Sweden, has them blamed on lslamists, with Trump's approval, according to you.

Trump isn't approving anything, he just takes orders, Kompromat'ed moron.

How are you going to dangle him?

Same way Mussolini got up there.

 

[CEngelbrecht]

Re: If reading only one article this year...

Then a Le Pen presidency likely wouldn't have included the Gilets Jaunes movement.

It wouldn't have been necessary. Les Gilets Jaunes trashing Paris is Putin's revenge over Macron standing in the way for Putin's next puppet in the West.

 

[truthatallcost]

Re: If reading only one article this year...

It wouldn't have been necessary. Les Gilets Jaunes trashing Paris is Putin's revenge over Macron standing in the way for Putin's next puppet in the West.

I blame Putin for the cheeseburger pizza being a hit in the U.K. We ALL know that the Brits have an impeccably sophisticated pallet for fine food. Pootins fault!

Seriously though...how could you?

 

[truthatallcost]

Re: If reading only one article this year...

Trump isn't approving anything, he just takes orders, Kompromat'ed moron.



Same way Mussolini got up there.

Mussolini wasn't the richest man in the world. Russians aren't going to turn on Putin. Give it a rest. Have a cheeseburger pizza and a crate of wine from Tesco.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

Re: If reading only one article this year...

I'm interested, and read your dialogue with the Tigerace, which I assume makes up the bulk of what you were referring to. Is this the model you'd like France and Europe to adopt? I'm unsure because you haven't specified exactly. Thank you.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Socialist_Federal_Republic_of_Yugoslavia

You will find a more detailed analysis of the ex YU in Lydall H. "Yugoslav Socialism Theory and Practice"

To answer your question, in my ideal world, yes, however I'm very pragmatic about what can be achieved in today's world order.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

Re: If reading only one article this year...

They don't riot, it's just not part of the social fabric for 'poor whites' in this country. And yes, many of them voted for Donald Trump because he's been the first President since Kennedy to show any concern for them whatsoever. Whether Trump is sincere in that concern is probably something you and I could agree on, but he capitalized quite well on focusing his rhetoric on matters appealing to a forgotten, and often hated demographic. Coming from the business world, he knew that success is to be found by tapping into underserved markets.

I agree on your first point though yes, I would doubt that Trump is sincere. He is like Nigel Farage and others, pretending to be on the side of the common man and anti-establishlment when in fact they are the establishment.

Then a Le Pen presidency likely wouldn't have included the Gilets Jaunes movement. Would Le Pen not also had been France's first female President? Remarkable progress was cast aside in favor of the fruity pebble (better?) with a nose for money and beauty products. Of course, all Presidents are susceptible to the temptation of graft, but at least Le Pen could have made history as a strong woman willing to make the much needed changes that are necessary to restore France to it's unique place in the world of being an epicenter of culture, arts, and good living, instead of the poster child for the inability to practice reasonable restraints.

No, Le Pen has simply made political capital out of the Gilets Jaunes, like many others.
She is not president material. She is a protest only and would be catastrophic as peresident. She is not that strong under pressure as she demonstrated in the presidential debate where she went to pieces and Macron came off rather well. If you undersatnd any French find You Tube clips of her being interviewed by Jean-Jacques Bourdin on "Bourdin Direct" - she's actually crap up against an intelligent interrogator. She is very bitter about her mother leaving the family home when she was young which is where I think alot of her hatred and anger comes from. Macron is far from perfect but I was prepared to give him a chance at the outset. He's failed in some areas, however the make-up is an irrelevance that we dealt with in the appropriate thread at the time.

France maintains a reputation for its arts, culture, gastronomy etc. It doesn't get a good press on your side of the water, but that doesn't stop US tourists coming here in their droves. We remain one of the most popular tourist destinations in the world even if the Gilets Jaunes have provoked some cancellations. A temporary blip that will pass. Paris, like New York or London, doesn't even have to try - people come and they love coming.