[W:432]Arbery case: New prosecutor, new evidence; new investigations next?

[ClaraD]

Arbery case: New prosecutor, new evidence; new investigations next?

As the state investigation into the killing of a black jogger welcomed a new prosecutor, the U.S. Attorney for Georgia’s Southern District previewed possible federal hate crimes against the father and son accused of murdering Ahmaud Arbery.

Also on Monday, the man who shot the video capturing Arbery’s death spoke out for the first time, and the owner of the home construction site in Glynn County that the victim is believed to have entered minutes before he was shot Feb. 23 said, through his attorney, there had been no thefts on the property.

t made for a dizzying array of developments in a case that, for more than two months, seemingly had none. Now, a woman of color will shepherd the criminal trial against Greg and Travis McMichael; a month ago, a local prosecutor was convinced the former cop and his son had acted lawfully. Federal involvement could mean more charges and potentially stiffer sentences for the accused killers, whose story was challenged by a part-time neighbor.

Greg McMichael, 64, said that there had been several break-ins in the Satilla Shores neighborhood just south of Brunswick and he suspected Arbery was responsible. Arbery appeared on surveillance video that showed a burglary in progress, McMichael, former investigator with the Brunswick Judicial Circuit, told Glynn County police. He provided gun cover for his 34-year-old son, Travis McMichael, who shot Arbery three times. The McMichaels were arrested Thursday and charged with felony murder and aggravated assault.

So now they may be facing hate crimes charges. A new DA is in town on the case and things are getting interesting. I have to wonder what evidence they have, that we haven't seen that would warrant hate crimes charges? It has to be more than what we are seeing here. Also, we know that there were no burgleries in the weeks leading up to the shooting and no burglery that day. The only incidence of theft was from the shooters unlocked car...someone stole his gun...the fool left a gun in an unlocked car. We know the construction site owner describes it as a construction site and said no crime was committed

 

[Rexedgar]

Georgia and three other states have no hate crime statutes.

46 states and the District of Columbia have statutes criminalizing various types of bias-motivated violence or intimidation (the exceptions are Arkansas, Georgia, whose hate crime statute was struck down by the Georgia Supreme Court in 2004, South Carolina, and Wyoming). - from Wikipedia

 

[ecofarm]

Georgia and three other states have no hate crime statutes.

46 states and the District of Columbia have statutes criminalizing various types of bias-motivated violence or intimidation (the exceptions are Arkansas, Georgia, whose hate crime statute was struck down by the Georgia Supreme Court in 2004, South Carolina, and Wyoming). - from Wikipedia

Yet racists cry The New Black Panthers and Antifa should be labeled terrorist groups. Never mind the kkk and neo nazi groups, they're white.

 

[j brown's body]

Georgia and three other states have no hate crime statutes.

46 states and the District of Columbia have statutes criminalizing various types of bias-motivated violence or intimidation (the exceptions are Arkansas, Georgia, whose hate crime statute was struck down by the Georgia Supreme Court in 2004, South Carolina, and Wyoming). - from Wikipedia

The feds could charge him with one, once they get this Obamagate thing straightened out.

 

[VanceMack]

New everything apparently. New thread even.

So...have we dispensed with all the rhetorical bull****? Are we down now to the facts yet?

1-Arbery was NOT just some poor innocent little lad out for a jog.
2-Arbery had a history of going through that home that was being renovated and is on video walking, not jogging to the site and then running from the site when he was spotted and had the cops called on him.
3-The McMichaels were stupid for attempting to engage in a citizens arrest.
4-3 stupid people engaged in stupid people **** that day and one of them died.

There isnt any evidence of anything more than that for any of this.

 

[ClaraD]

The feds could charge him with one, once they get this Obamagate thing straightened out.

I think what may be more likely to happen is charges against the DA and some of the police officers involved...including the person that told the mother that Arbery was killed inside a home that he was burglarizing.

 

[ClaraD]

New everything apparently. New thread even.

So...have we dispensed with all the rhetorical bull****? Are we down now to the facts yet?

1-Arbery was NOT just some poor innocent little lad out for a jog.
2-Arbery had a history of going through that home that was being renovated and is on video walking, not jogging to the site and then running from the site when he was spotted and had the cops called on him.
3-The McMichaels were stupid for attempting to engage in a citizens arrest.
4-3 stupid people engaged in stupid people **** that day and one of them died.

There isnt any evidence of anything more than that for any of this.

1. Actually he was just out for a jog...there wasn't a crime committed by him that day.
2. No, he didn't have a history of doing anything illegal. The construction site owner said nothing has been stolen from him by Arbery or anyone else.

 

[jamesbyoung]

New everything apparently. New thread even.

So...have we dispensed with all the rhetorical bull****? Are we down now to the facts yet?

1-Arbery was NOT just some poor innocent little lad out for a jog.
2-Arbery had a history of going through that home that was being renovated and is on video walking, not jogging to the site and then running from the site when he was spotted and had the cops called on him.
3-The McMichaels were stupid for attempting to engage in a citizens arrest.
4-3 stupid people engaged in stupid people **** that day and one of them died.

There isnt any evidence of anything more than that for any of this.

They murdered him, VanceMack, and that is what you need to know.

The DA, know just what is Cobb County, will move the trial to Atlanta.

 

[VanceMack]

1. Actually he was just out for a jog...there wasn't a crime committed by him that day.
2. No, he didn't have a history of doing anything illegal. The construction site owner said nothing has been stolen from him by Arbery or anyone else.

So thats a no...you are still invested in an idiotic lie.

OK then.

 

[VanceMack]

They murdered him, VanceMack, and that is what you need to know.

The DA, know just what is Cobb County, will move the trial to Atlanta.

They didnt murder him, any more than George Zimmerman murdered Trayvon Martin. They DID create the circumstance whereby he died and if its not criminal there is certainly a case for a civil liability. What level of criminal culpability...thats for the courts to decide.

 

[ClaraD]

So thats a no...you are still invested in an idiotic lie.

OK then.

A lie? So, the owner of the construction site is lying by defning it as a construction site and saying nothing was stolen?

 

[ClaraD]

They didnt murder him, any more than George Zimmerman murdered Trayvon Martin. They DID create the circumstance whereby he died and if its not criminal there is certainly a case for a civil liability. What level of criminal culpability...thats for the courts to decide.

They persued him and created the confrontation and shot him three times...they murdered him. The 2 have been charged with murder.

 

[VanceMack]

They persued him and created the confrontation and shot him three times...they murdered him. The 2 have been charged with murder.

They attempted to make a citizens arrest...not a crime in Georgia. They openly carried firearms...not a crime in Georgia. The individual shot ONLY when Arbery charged him.

Never claimed it wasnt stupid. Just the opposite. Never stated there wasnt and shouldnt be some form of culpability...just the opposite. but....


1-Arbery was NOT just some poor innocent little lad out for a jog.
2-Arbery had a history of going through that home that was being renovated and is on video walking, not jogging to the site and then running from the site when he was spotted and had the cops called on him.
3-The McMichaels were stupid for attempting to engage in a citizens arrest.
4-3 stupid people engaged in stupid people **** that day and one of them died.

There isnt any evidence of anything more than that for any of this.

 

[BlueTex]

They attempted to make a citizens arrest...not a crime in Georgia. They openly carried firearms...not a crime in Georgia. The individual shot ONLY when Arbery charged him.

Never claimed it wasnt stupid. Just the opposite. Never stated there wasnt and shouldnt be some form of culpability...just the opposite. but....


1-Arbery was NOT just some poor innocent little lad out for a jog.
2-Arbery had a history of going through that home that was being renovated and is on video walking, not jogging to the site and then running from the site when he was spotted and had the cops called on him.
3-The McMichaels were stupid for attempting to engage in a citizens arrest.
4-3 stupid people engaged in stupid people **** that day and one of them died.

There isnt any evidence of anything more than that for any of this.

Does Georgia law allow deadly force in a citizens arrest?

 

[ClaraD]

They attempted to make a citizens arrest...not a crime in Georgia. They openly carried firearms...not a crime in Georgia. The individual shot ONLY when Arbery charged him.

Never claimed it wasnt stupid. Just the opposite. Never stated there wasnt and shouldnt be some form of culpability...just the opposite. but....


1-Arbery was NOT just some poor innocent little lad out for a jog.
2-Arbery had a history of going through that home that was being renovated and is on video walking, not jogging to the site and then running from the site when he was spotted and had the cops called on him.
3-The McMichaels were stupid for attempting to engage in a citizens arrest.
4-3 stupid people engaged in stupid people **** that day and one of them died.

There isnt any evidence of anything more than that for any of this.

under Georgia law, they have to have witnessed him committing a crime in order to make a citizens arrest and even if they were to have witnessed a crime...they have to use as little force as possible....they did none of the above...there was no crime...thus they could not have observed a felony in progress...a requirement for a citizens arrest.

 

[ClaraD]

Does Georgia law allow deadly force in a citizens arrest?

They could not lawfully arrest him in Georgia...there was no felony in progress.

Here is what they are now claiming

The father and son said they thought Arbery matched the appearance of a burglary suspect who they said had been recorded on a surveillance camera some time before.

except in the weeks before this occurred there had been no burglaries in this neighborhood. So what video? Also, a picture of someone going between houses, but never entering them, is not proof of any criminal activity...and the person that they put on you tube...isn't Arbery.

 

[VanceMack]

Does Georgia law allow deadly force in a citizens arrest?

It does in self defense. And both parties wold have a claim to acting in self defense.

 

[VanceMack]

under Georgia law, they have to have witnessed him committing a crime in order to make a citizens arrest and even if they were to have witnessed a crime...they have to use as little force as possible....they did none of the above...there was no crime...thus they could not have observed a felony in progress...a requirement for a citizens arrest.

That will be for their lawyer to argue and the court to decide.

 

[HenryChinaski]

Arbery case: New prosecutor, new evidence; new investigations next?

As the state investigation into the killing of a black jogger welcomed a new prosecutor, the U.S. Attorney for Georgia’s Southern District previewed possible federal hate crimes against the father and son accused of murdering Ahmaud Arbery.

Also on Monday, the man who shot the video capturing Arbery’s death spoke out for the first time, and the owner of the home construction site in Glynn County that the victim is believed to have entered minutes before he was shot Feb. 23 said, through his attorney, there had been no thefts on the property.

t made for a dizzying array of developments in a case that, for more than two months, seemingly had none. Now, a woman of color will shepherd the criminal trial against Greg and Travis McMichael; a month ago, a local prosecutor was convinced the former cop and his son had acted lawfully. Federal involvement could mean more charges and potentially stiffer sentences for the accused killers, whose story was challenged by a part-time neighbor.

Greg McMichael, 64, said that there had been several break-ins in the Satilla Shores neighborhood just south of Brunswick and he suspected Arbery was responsible. Arbery appeared on surveillance video that showed a burglary in progress, McMichael, former investigator with the Brunswick Judicial Circuit, told Glynn County police. He provided gun cover for his 34-year-old son, Travis McMichael, who shot Arbery three times. The McMichaels were arrested Thursday and charged with felony murder and aggravated assault.

So now they may be facing hate crimes charges. A new DA is in town on the case and things are getting interesting. I have to wonder what evidence they have, that we haven't seen that would warrant hate crimes charges? It has to be more than what we are seeing here. Also, we know that there were no burgleries in the weeks leading up to the shooting and no burglery that day. The only incidence of theft was from the shooters unlocked car...someone stole his gun...the fool left a gun in an unlocked car. We know the construction site owner describes it as a construction site and said no crime was committed

The break-ins were a lie to help justify the shooting.

 

[BlueTex]

It does in self defense. And both parties wold have a claim to acting in self defense.

Can you claim self defense when you provoke the incident?

 

[Mr Person]

New everything apparently. New thread even.

So...have we dispensed with all the rhetorical bull****? Are we down now to the facts yet?

1-Arbery was NOT just some poor innocent little lad out for a jog.
2-Arbery had a history of going through that home that was being renovated and is on video walking, not jogging to the site and then running from the site when he was spotted and had the cops called on him.
3-The McMichaels were stupid for attempting to engage in a citizens arrest.
4-3 stupid people engaged in stupid people **** that day and one of them died.

There isnt any evidence of anything more than that for any of this.

Oh look, vance is being dishonest again. Shocker.

The video of him in a house - doing nothing, other than what would be a non-criminal temporary tresspass - surfaced only recently. The murderous thugs were not and could not have been aware of it months ago. They claimed houses had been burglarized recently. That was a lie. They had not been. Neither have any relevance to what the McMichael's did.

They only saw him jogging. That does not authorize them to attempt a citizens arrest, and nothing about the citizens arrest statute authorizes someone engaged in one to use lethal force.

Relatedly, you cannot accost someone with a firearm, and then when they defend themselves with non-lethal force, use lethal force to defend yourself. That flips the law of self-defense on its head. That means you can kill anyone you want, so long as they respond to your sticking a gun in their face by trying to gain control of it.

The McMichael's assumed he must have done something because he was black. They ambushed him with weapons and shot him dead in a conflict they deliberately provoked.



Disgusting but predictable that you would try to both-sides it. Why is it so important to smear Arbery? Why is it so important to you that he be wrong, too?

 

[Mr Person]

Some reminders:


A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

SS 17-4-60 - Grounds for arrest :: 2010 Georgia Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

This means that if it's a misdemeanor, it needs to be in the wannabe cop's presence or "within his immediate knowledge." If it's a felony, "upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

Further problem: the video that the McMichaels did not know about but which people are trying to use to defend them does not even show a misdemeanor. The only relevant subsection would be:

(b) A person commits the offense of criminal trespass when he or she knowingly and without authority:

(1) Enters upon the land or premises of another person or into any part of any vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person for an unlawful purpose;



Georgia Code Title 16. Crimes and Offenses SS 16-7-21 | FindLaw

Problem: the video shows that he did not do anything unlawful on the premises. You can't very well say someone entered the premises with unlawful intent if your video shows them just sort of glancing around, then leaving. (Something it would seem a good majority of people have done at least once re; construction sites). The only way you get to unlawful intent is if you assume black man bad because, again, the video shows he didn't attempt to do anything, let alone anything unlawful.

Further problem: the citizens' arrest statute makes no mention of use of force to affect the arrest, but I guarantee you you do not get to use lethal force. Even cops cannot use lethal force to affect an arrest. (Tenn. v. Gardner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985)). Citizens have less wiggle room than officers.

If GA has a civil trespass statute, that is the absolute most he did wrong. Civil tresspass.

Meanwhile, the McMichaels had no basis to attempt an arrest under the citizens arrest statute, had no need to even try since they could have followed in their truck until the police arrived, and even if they HAD had a basis to attempt arrest, they have no right to accost their suspect with firearms and then when that suspect lawfully engages in non-lethal force self-defense, shoot that suspect dead because they were scared they might lose control of the firearms. Someone like that has no business owning a firearm, for that matter.

The McMichaels are 100% in the wrong. They are murderous thugs.
________________

Extra credit: some desperate to defend the McMichaels have posted another video, ie, the OP here:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/gene...fter-new-video-emerges.html?highlight=Georgia

A few quick notes:
- The timestamp from that video shows it's about an hour off.
- The McMichaels were not aware of that video either
- The video is a security cam outside a house. You can just barely make out someone about 300ish feet away walking around a house for a while, then eventually jogging off. That person takes up maybe 12 or 20 pixels on the screen. You simply cannot tell who it is or what exactly he did.

 

[Mr Person]

Arbery case: New prosecutor, new evidence; new investigations next?

As the state investigation into the killing of a black jogger welcomed a new prosecutor, the U.S. Attorney for Georgia’s Southern District previewed possible federal hate crimes against the father and son accused of murdering Ahmaud Arbery.

Also on Monday, the man who shot the video capturing Arbery’s death spoke out for the first time, and the owner of the home construction site in Glynn County that the victim is believed to have entered minutes before he was shot Feb. 23 said, through his attorney, there had been no thefts on the property.

t made for a dizzying array of developments in a case that, for more than two months, seemingly had none. Now, a woman of color will shepherd the criminal trial against Greg and Travis McMichael; a month ago, a local prosecutor was convinced the former cop and his son had acted lawfully. Federal involvement could mean more charges and potentially stiffer sentences for the accused killers, whose story was challenged by a part-time neighbor.

Greg McMichael, 64, said that there had been several break-ins in the Satilla Shores neighborhood just south of Brunswick and he suspected Arbery was responsible. Arbery appeared on surveillance video that showed a burglary in progress, McMichael, former investigator with the Brunswick Judicial Circuit, told Glynn County police. He provided gun cover for his 34-year-old son, Travis McMichael, who shot Arbery three times. The McMichaels were arrested Thursday and charged with felony murder and aggravated assault.

So now they may be facing hate crimes charges. A new DA is in town on the case and things are getting interesting. I have to wonder what evidence they have, that we haven't seen that would warrant hate crimes charges? It has to be more than what we are seeing here. Also, we know that there were no burgleries in the weeks leading up to the shooting and no burglery that day. The only incidence of theft was from the shooters unlocked car...someone stole his gun...the fool left a gun in an unlocked car. We know the construction site owner describes it as a construction site and said no crime was committed

It'd probably be tough to make out hate crime charges here. Those cases usually involve evidence that the defendant has a history of racist posts and was yelling racist slurs at the victim during commission of the crime, etc.

 

[VanceMack]

Can you claim self defense when you provoke the incident?

Sure.

 

[ClaraD]

That will be for their lawyer to argue and the court to decide.

Clearly GBI sees it the way I do, thus why they are in jail and denied bond