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[W: 344][W:64]Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

Logician Man

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Which Christian denominations/sects teach salvation by faith, which teach salvation by works, which of the two is correct, and why is it correct ?
 

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Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

Which Christian denominations/sects teach salvation by faith, which teach salvation by works, which of the two is correct, and why is it correct ?

What makes you think they are mutually exclusive?
 

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Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

Which Christian denominations/sects teach salvation by faith, which teach salvation by works, which of the two is correct, and why is it correct ?

Are you suggesting there might be a "christian denomination" that doesn't teach "faith"?

Isn't that like saying there's some water that's not wet?
 

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Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

Are you suggesting there might be a "christian denomination" that doesn't teach "faith"?

Isn't that like saying there's some water that's not wet?

This is a pseudo-debate people who didn't pay attention in Sunday school like to have, like the one the extremist Sola Scriptura advocates like to have.
 

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Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

Which Christian denominations/sects teach salvation by faith, which teach salvation by works, which of the two is correct, and why is it correct ?

Faith leads to good works, together they lead to salvation...you can't have one without the other...having one without the other leads to being a hypocrite...for faith and works both to be present, the heart has to be involved...Duet. 6:4,5; Matthew 22:37...
 

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Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

I remember chatting with this evangelical fundie in another political forum so many years ago, and his view was that as long as you believe in Jesus, you are saved- what you do in life doesnt matter, you'll still go to heaven anyway.
 

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Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

Which Christian denominations/sects teach salvation by faith, which teach salvation by works, which of the two is correct, and why is it correct ?

To me that's like asking, who preaches hoodoo and who preaches voodoo.
 

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Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

I remember chatting with this evangelical fundie in another political forum so many years ago, and his view was that as long as you believe in Jesus, you are saved- what you do in life doesnt matter, you'll still go to heaven anyway.

I do believe he is in for a rude awakening...
 

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Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

Which Christian denominations/sects teach salvation by faith, which teach salvation by works, which of the two is correct, and why is it correct ?

From a quick Google search, Roman Catholics, JW's, and Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints believe salvation is achieved through faith + works, while most protestant churches believe in salvation through faith (by grace) alone - probably because of Ephesians 2:8–9.

I don't know of any churches that believe in salvation through works alone. Given that both schools of thought involve faith, the only time this becomes a sticky issue is when denominations try to tell each other one is more right than the other.
 

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Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

From a quick Google search, Roman Catholics, JW's, and Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints believe salvation is achieved through faith + works, while most protestant churches believe in salvation through faith (by grace) alone - probably because of Ephesians 2:8–9.

I don't know of any churches that believe in salvation through works alone. Given that both schools of thought involve faith, the only time this becomes a sticky issue is when denominations try to tell each other one is more right than the other.

Pretty much my understanding also, although I believe Catholics put more emphasis on works than the others. ( could be wrong, check with the Catholics for a more informed decision ). I was first exposed to Southern Baptist in the 50's...emphasis on faith ( just accept the doctrine, go forth and sin, get baptized, and you're good to go )
 

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Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

From a quick Google search, Roman Catholics, JW's, and Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints believe salvation is achieved through faith + works, while most protestant churches believe in salvation through faith (by grace) alone - probably because of Ephesians 2:8–9.

I don't know of any churches that believe in salvation through works alone. Given that both schools of thought involve faith, the only time this becomes a sticky issue is when denominations try to tell each other one is more right than the other.

The Calvinists say that faith alone justifies you, the idea being that you can't dig your own way out of the hole you are in, only God can do that. On the subject of works I'd have to go with James.
 

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Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

Pretty much my understanding also, although I believe Catholics put more emphasis on works than the others. ( could be wrong, check with the Catholics for a more informed decision ). I was first exposed to Southern Baptist in the 50's...emphasis on faith ( just accept the doctrine, go forth and sin, get baptized, and you're good to go )

I'm not sure it's as simple as that. If it were, there'd be a lot less fire and brimstone issuing from Southern Baptist pulpits...hehe...

I can't speak to many other denominations, not being as familiar with them as my own, but here's the Lutheran point of view. Given Original Sin (the eating of the forbidden fruit in Eden, and the following consequences), we, as human beings, can never be "perfect", no matter how hard we try (the strongest case against Christian smugness, by the way, in case you ever needed one). Therefore we can never "earn" or "deserve" salvation. Rather, it is given by God to those who believe in him, because he loves us.

Now, if we are in that relationship, we cannot help but do works - where works can also mean a lot of things, but generally are done in the service of God, either directly, or by helping others. But this is not what saves us.

In a way, there's a fairness to that. Critics like to go directly to the worst case scenario - the monster that repents on their deathbed. I'm not sure about that...I've sent the question out, will let you know the response. (My mother is a Lutheran minister, so I have a nice "Call a Friend" lifeline options...hehe) But from a more practical standpoint, works based salvation is actually rather ableist. Does a person who cannot perform works due to disability not get to go to Heaven, despite their great faith? (Rhetorical question, since no one really knows, beyond what the Bible says, and look how many ways that gets interpreted).

Bear in mind I'm not arguing correctness, I am simply sharing Lutheran ideology. Every denomination will have their own specific ideology on this, with most landing in a tight grouping, and a few others who find themselves a little on their own. In the end I believe it all amounts to the same thing...with the difference being how we view each other. A faith only denomination will look at a faith+works denomination, see their faith, and say they are saved, irrespective of their works (which, of course, we'd commend them for). I'm not sure what a faith+works denomination would say about us, but that's not really a concern for me beyond academic interest. If it were, I'd probably belong to their denomination, not mine. :)
 

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Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

The Calvinists say that faith alone justifies you, the idea being that you can't dig your own way out of the hole you are in, only God can do that. On the subject of works I'd have to go with James.

Yup, that's what most Protestant churches believe.

James is a great book. :)
 

gfm7175

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Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

I can't speak to many other denominations, not being as familiar with them as my own, but here's the Lutheran point of view. Given Original Sin (the eating of the forbidden fruit in Eden, and the following consequences), we, as human beings, can never be "perfect", no matter how hard we try (the strongest case against Christian smugness, by the way, in case you ever needed one). Therefore we can never "earn" or "deserve" salvation. Rather, it is given by God to those who believe in him, because he loves us.

Now, if we are in that relationship, we cannot help but do works - where works can also mean a lot of things, but generally are done in the service of God, either directly, or by helping others. But this is not what saves us.

Sounds pretty good to me. I am a Lutheran also, but I am aware that there are various types of Lutherans (I am a Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod [WELS] member), but there's also ELCA and others who hold some different views than WELS does, and I wouldn't say that I agree with all WELS views either...

With that out of the way, I guess I can only speak for myself and what I believe given my personal study of The Bible. --- I believe that we are saved by faith alone (works don't earn us any "brownie points"). I would quote various passages, such as John 5:24, Romans 3:28, Romans 4, Romans 5:1, Ephesians 2:8-9, Galatians 2:16, Galatians 5:6, [and many others] to support that position...

With saying that, that doesn't mean that works can be ignored. Works are quite vital as well, as they are a result of being filled with the Holy Spirit. I think that James 2 says it best when it concludes, "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."
 

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Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

Which Christian denominations/sects teach salvation by faith, which teach salvation by works, which of the two is correct, and why is it correct ?

I'm not sure if any teach 'salvation by works'... Some do teach 'salvation by faith AND works', though. Others teach 'salvation by faith alone'...

I believe that 'salvation by faith alone' is correct, and that 'salvation by faith AND works' is incorrect. See my post #14 for my explanation of why I believe that to be correct, and what my views on the importance of works are (even though I don't believe that works gain a person salvation in any way).
 

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Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

Sounds pretty good to me. I am a Lutheran also, but I am aware that there are various types of Lutherans (I am a Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod [WELS] member), but there's also ELCA and others who hold some different views than WELS does, and I wouldn't say that I agree with all WELS views either...

With that out of the way, I guess I can only speak for myself and what I believe given my personal study of The Bible. --- I believe that we are saved by faith alone (works don't earn us any "brownie points"). I would quote various passages, such as John 5:24, Romans 3:28, Romans 4, Romans 5:1, Ephesians 2:8-9, Galatians 2:16, Galatians 5:6, [and many others] to support that position...

With saying that, that doesn't mean that works can be ignored. Works are quite vital as well, as they are a result of being filled with the Holy Spirit. I think that James 2 says it best when it concludes, "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Works are necessary for our fellow man and for ourselves.
 

OlNate

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Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

Sounds pretty good to me. I am a Lutheran also, but I am aware that there are various types of Lutherans (I am a Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod [WELS] member), but there's also ELCA and others who hold some different views than WELS does, and I wouldn't say that I agree with all WELS views either...

With that out of the way, I guess I can only speak for myself and what I believe given my personal study of The Bible. --- I believe that we are saved by faith alone (works don't earn us any "brownie points"). I would quote various passages, such as John 5:24, Romans 3:28, Romans 4, Romans 5:1, Ephesians 2:8-9, Galatians 2:16, Galatians 5:6, [and many others] to support that position...

With saying that, that doesn't mean that works can be ignored. Works are quite vital as well, as they are a result of being filled with the Holy Spirit. I think that James 2 says it best when it concludes, "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Agreed - works are important. They simply are not required for salvation, to which I'd point to Ephesians 2:8–9 to support - but it sounds like we agree.
 

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Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

I'm not sure if any teach 'salvation by works'... Some do teach 'salvation by faith AND works', though. Others teach 'salvation by faith alone'...

I believe that 'salvation by faith alone' is correct, and that 'salvation by faith AND works' is incorrect. See my post #14 for my explanation of why I believe that to be correct, and what my views on the importance of works are (even though I don't believe that works gain a person salvation in any way).

Well, that would certainly explain some people's actions/words...I always hear them called Sunday Christians...go to church and repent on Sunday and sin all they like the other 6 days of the week...I guess that is why some call Hitler a Christian...
 

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Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

Well, that would certainly explain some people's actions/words...I always hear them called Sunday Christians...go to church and repent on Sunday and sin all they like the other 6 days of the week...I guess that is why some call Hitler a Christian...
Yeah, I've definitely heard (and made use of) the "Sunday Christians" terminology. That's where, while I don't believe that works earn salvation in any way, I still believe that works are extremely vital, as James 2 makes a very good case for the importance of works.
 

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Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

Yeah, I've definitely heard (and made use of) the "Sunday Christians" terminology. That's where, while I don't believe that works earn salvation in any way, I still believe that works are extremely vital, as James 2 makes a very good case for the importance of works.

I agree 100%...
 

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Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

Well, that would certainly explain some people's actions/words...I always hear them called Sunday Christians...go to church and repent on Sunday and sin all they like the other 6 days of the week...I guess that is why some call Hitler a Christian...

So...were David and Peter "Sunday Christians"?
 

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Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

So...were David and Peter "Sunday Christians"?

lol...David was not a Christian...:roll:...they repented for their sins and strived to not wilfully practice what they had repented for like a SC does...

"For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a burning indignation that is going to consume those in opposition." Hebrew 10:26,27
 
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Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

lol...David was not a Christian...:roll:...they repented for their sins and strived to not wilfully practice what they had repented for like a SC does...

"For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a burning indignation that is going to consume those in opposition." Hebrew 10:26,27

So do you pray for these poor lost souls who don't live up to your standards? How about homosexuals, they are also sinners. How about drinks, they are sinners, too. Are you looking forward to the day when they will be judged?
 

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Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

So do you pray for these poor lost souls who don't live up to your standards? How about homosexuals, they are also sinners. How about drinks, they are sinners, too. Are you looking forward to the day when they will be judged?

I sure do and they are not my standards they have to live up to, but God's...my BIL was a homosexual who drank himself to death because he was so unhappy with who he was and I do think/hope Jehovah will take that into consideration...he died of cirrhosis...I look forward to the day when there will be no more wickedness but I have no desire for anyone to die, just as Jehovah doesn't...

"Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9...

What about you...do you pray for your enemies or will you only continue to mock them? How do you think God feels about that?

9 Do not pay back injury for injury or insult for insult. Instead, repay with a blessing, for you were called to this course, so that you might inherit a blessing.

10 For “whoever would love life and see good days must guard his tongue from bad and his lips from speaking deception.

11 Let him turn away from what is bad and do what is good; let him seek peace and pursue it.

12 For the eyes of Jehovah are on the righteous, and his ears listen to their supplication, but the face of Jehovah* is against those doing bad things.” 1 Peter 3:9-12
 

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Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

I sure do and they are not my standards they have to live up to, but God's...my BIL was a homosexual who drank himself to death because he was so unhappy with who he was and I do think/hope Jehovah will take that into consideration...he died of cirrhosis...I look forward to the day when there will be no more wickedness but I have no desire for anyone to die, just as Jehovah doesn't...

"Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9...

What about you...do you pray for your enemies or will you only continue to mock them? How do you think God feels about that?

9 Do not pay back injury for injury or insult for insult. Instead, repay with a blessing, for you were called to this course, so that you might inherit a blessing.

10 For “whoever would love life and see good days must guard his tongue from bad and his lips from speaking deception.

11 Let him turn away from what is bad and do what is good; let him seek peace and pursue it.

12 For the eyes of Jehovah are on the righteous, and his ears listen to their supplication, but the face of Jehovah* is against those doing bad things.” 1 Peter 3:9-12

Not your standards? God does not have "Sunday Christians". His property is always to have mercy, not to make his children second class citizens.

So, you are upset with me because you think I mock people. Are you also upset that they mock me or is this another double standard? You know, one standard for me and another for you?
 
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