[W:34] Just Another FTX!

[Oozlefinch]

I’d like to mic up the billets!

Tanks, cannons and soldiers sleeping in DC offices: Inside Trump birthday military parade — USA TODAY

For Trump's historic military parade, soldiers' chow will consist of two Meals Ready to Eat and one hot meal a day. Bring your sleeping bags, said one official.

apple.news

”
Their chow will consist of two MREs (Meals Ready to Eat) and one hot meal per day. They'll also receive $50 per day in extra pay.
Bring your sleeping bags, said a Defense Department official who was not authorized to speak publicly.
Their shower schedule will be set by "mayors" appointed to oversee housing at the buildings, the official said.”

And that is actually 100% normal for such things like this. Other than the per diem that is.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Nothing screams over-the-top authoritarianism more than a military parade.

Right, because no other nations that are authoritarianism ever hold parades like this.

 

[Oozlefinch]

You talked at length about M-60 tanks participating in the parade.

Do you have a source to support that? I would be interested, since other posters had sources that indicated Abrams tanks would be used.

Especially since the only ones we have left in service are not tanks but engineer vehicles. The M728 is "combat retired", but some remain in Reserve and Guard units for training purposes. And a handful remain that carry fast deploying bridges. But for use as a "tank", I think the last ones were retired about 15 years ago. And even those were OPFOR tanks at 29 Palms and Fort Irwin. For combat use, those things were retired shortly after the Gulf War, over 3 decades ago.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Life expectancy for a tanker inside an M-60 MBT in the Ukraine in a tank to tank engagement would be in nano seconds. Just like the T-54/55.

And what tanks have the Russians been using in that conflict recently?

Russia has actually been using T-54 tanks in Ukraine.

And guess what? There have been almost no tank on tank battles in Ukraine!

Like in most wars not WWII, the tank is once again fulfilling their main duty as infantry support. But I get it, gotta believe in the fantasy and not the reality.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Weren’t the M-60 tanks phased out in the late 1990s?

”As of the present plan the Army M-60 Main Battle Tanks will "rumble through" along the roads of Washington.”

Well, more like the mid-1990s. Almost all of the Army had transitioned to the M1 before the Gulf War, The Marines transitioned right after. And after the troop cuts of the early 1990s (and the disbanding of the 2nd and 3rd Armored Divisions) the former lack of numbers of the M1 for each unit suddenly reversed and there were more than enough M1 tanks to even supply all of the Reserve and Guard units with them.

I had a buddy in the California NatGuard then, he said in their motor pool they had both M1 and M60 tanks. The biggest delay for "full adoption" was actually scheduling the training for each of the units so they could transition to the newer tanks.

And other than a few old CWO4-5, First Sergeants and Sergeant Majors, and a few Colonels and Generals that are nearing retirement age, nobody other than a handful that used them as OPFOR at training bases 15 years ago has actually used them in over 3 decades.

 

[NWRatCon]

My unit in 1985 was a training unit. We had M48s, M60 (flat) and M60A1s when I arrived, and transitioned to the M60A3 while I was there (technically M60A3 TTS - for Tank Thermal Site - bad ass tech). The difference between the original M60 and A1 was the hydraulic system. The original M60 had manual brakes, believe it or not. I have the original TMs and operator manuals in a trunk, somewhere. As I said, no one called it "Cheyenne" but my original manual had that on the cover. I think it was actually its "development" name. You'll see model kits from the 70s with that moniker (and Patton), but officially it's always been just M60 MBT.

As a then-TC on the M60A3, I loved it. They're noisy, uncomfortable and smelly, too, but you have no doubt you're in a tank. It could actually outshoot an original M1 standing still (i.e., put more rounds on target), but nothing, nothing Is better than an M1 on the move. It's roomier than an M1, but also 3 feet taller and 54 tons vs 71. Still, we could hit an enemy 2000 yards before they could range us. The M1's 120mm smooth-bore, though, packs a wallop.

The M60 rocks back a lot when it fires. As the gunner, that means you lose your site picture as soon as you pull the trigger, but the target usually reappears just as the round hits. Very satisfying. I'm grinning remembering that sensation. But... helicopters gave me the heebie-jeebies. Just can't hit 'em. Tankers hate flying things.

 

[Oozlefinch]

I may be wrong but I think helicopters have been monikered with Native American names, i.e. AH-60 Apache attack helicopter, C-47 Chinook, etc.

To be specific, Army helicopters. The Navy and Marine Corps use a different naming scheme.

Most are likely not even aware that the UH-1 "Huey" is actually according to the Army the "Iroquois". The only "Army" helicopter that I am aware of that did not get slapped with an Indian name is the VH-3.

Even though the Army flew them as "Army 1" when they shared the duties of moving the President from the White House to the airport, they never actually acquired them for their own use otherwise. So the SH-3 "Sea King" helicopters they used were renamed to VH-3, but still called "Sea King". And those were all retired back in 1976.

 

[Oozlefinch]

As I said, no one called it "Cheyenne" but my original manual had that on the cover.

It was actually never officially assigned a "Name". We just called it the M60, but sometimes you would hear it called a "Patton".

 

[MamboDervish]

It was actually never officially assigned a "Name". We just called it the M60, but sometimes you would hear it called a "Patton".

".... but everyone knew her as Nancy".

 

[Tangmo]

I may be wrong but I think helicopters have been monikered with Native American names, i.e. AH-60 Apache attack helicopter, C-47 Chinook, etc.

Not wrong given and as noted that's the Army nomenclature doctrine.

The Marines have the Cobra attack helo for instance. And as pointed out, the Navy has a helo called the Sea Hawk.

The Japan Ground Self Defense Force which is the Army loves the Cobra as their primary if not exclusive attack helo.

You and I anyway were in the Army to include the same barracks buildings at Ft. Dix NJ just at different times if I recall correctly. Those barracks were right next to the main runway at McGuire AFB whose big MATS (at the time) transports shook the old and sagging WW II wooden barracks. As I noted, first time with that we thought the always creaking barracks were going to crumble into the ground. And alphabetically I was always on the 2nd floor of whatever barracks we were in at Dix for ROTC training and stuff. Those large transports at McGuire were loaded up for West Germany mostly during the Cold War. The best part about it though was that the McGuire beer hall was a five minute walk. A longer crawl coming back though.

 

[Tangmo]

”Their chow will consist of two MREs (Meals Ready to Eat) and one hot meal per day. They'll also receive $50 per day in extra pay.
Bring your sleeping bags, said a Defense Department official who was not authorized to speak publicly.
Their shower schedule will be set by "mayors" appointed to oversee housing at the buildings, the official said.”

Meals Rejected By Everyone is the way I've heard it ha.


The military btw is working to produce two plant based meal options for the armed forces MREs. Currently there are four kinds of MREs and in 2023 Congress ordered the Defense Logistics Agency to come up with something to meet a perceived demand in the military for plant based meals.

Navy Will Test Vegan Meat on at Least 2 US Bases

Under a new provision in the 2023 National Defense Authorization Act, the Navy will launch a three-year pilot program where plant-based proteins will be available on naval bases, particularly in regions where animal meat is expensive to buy and store.

vegnews.com

Wait till Hegseth The Gone Silent and Invisible One gets hold of this.

 

[RF667799]

My unit in 1985 was a training unit. We had M48s, M60 (flat) and M60A1s when I arrived, and transitioned to the M60A3 while I was there (technically M60A3 TTS - for Tank Thermal Site - bad ass tech). The difference between the original M60 and A1 was the hydraulic system. The original M60 had manual brakes, believe it or not. I have the original TMs and operator manuals in a trunk, somewhere. As I said, no one called it "Cheyenne" but my original manual had that on the cover. I think it was actually its "development" name. You'll see model kits from the 70s with that moniker (and Patton), but officially it's always been just M60 MBT.

As a then-TC on the M60A3, I loved it. They're noisy, uncomfortable and smelly, too, but you have no doubt you're in a tank. It could actually outshoot an original M1 standing still (i.e., put more rounds on target), but nothing, nothing Is better than an M1 on the move. It's roomier than an M1, but also 3 feet taller and 54 tons vs 71. Still, we could hit an enemy 2000 yards before they could range us. The M1's 120mm smooth-bore, though, packs a wallop.

The M60 rocks back a lot when it fires. As the gunner, that means you lose your site picture as soon as you pull the trigger, but the target usually reappears just as the round hits. Very satisfying. I'm grinning remembering that sensation. But... helicopters gave me the heebie-jeebies. Just can't hit 'em. Tankers hate flying things.

The 1/1 Cav were the last element of the 1AD to be equipped with M60s. At their last Gunnery at Graf, they did have the highest scores in the division while using their dinosaurs. I got an AAM that noted that in the narrative.

I couldn't say whether due to the Scout's greater familiarity with the equipment or some inherent accuracy of the 105 rifled gun compared to the 120mm smoothbore gun of the M1A2s equipping the rest of the Division.

 

[RF667799]

Especially since the only ones we have left in service are not tanks but engineer vehicles. The M728 is "combat retired", but some remain in Reserve and Guard units for training purposes. And a handful remain that carry fast deploying bridges. But for use as a "tank", I think the last ones were retired about 15 years ago. And even those were OPFOR tanks at 29 Palms and Fort Irwin. For combat use, those things were retired shortly after the Gulf War, over 3 decades ago.

The 16th Engineers were equipped with M728 CEVs when I was in Germany, and our Armament section directly supported them. They were indeed converted from older marks of M60s. I believe their fire control gear was much more simplistic though, since their main gun was of short range and used to fire demolition rounds. Anyway, though tasked to support them, they were seldom if ever job ordered to us. I can't recall us ever even doing a bore scope and pull over inspection of those tubes.

 

[RF667799]

Edit to post 62: The Abrams tanks equipping the rest of the Division were M1A1s, not A2s.

 

[StillBallin75]

Welp sucks to suck, warriors

 

[gman]

Tankers have told me that the thermal sight on a M60A3TTS was superior to its counterpart on the Abrams- at least up to and including the M1A1.

Boy, I miss the old days when tankers were tankers and used stereoscopic sights and lined up the geese on the target

 

[Rich2018]

I may be wrong but I think helicopters have been monikered with Native American names, i.e. AH-60 Apache attack helicopter, C-47 Chinook, etc.

Yeah that's right, other examples would be the Kiowa. The Black Hawk was named after the Native American war leader.

 

[RF667799]

Yeah that's right, other examples would be the Kiowa. The Black Hawk was named after the Native American war leader.

The CH-47's actual nomenclature is "Shit Hook". Chinook is just a SFW euphemism.

 

[gman]

On occasion in VN we utilized the heavy lift and carry capability of the CH-54 Tarhe, flying crane. We were able retrieve battle damaged M-113 APC’s after the weapons, ammo, radios, and steel gun shields were removed. There was one major drawback however, because of the heat and humidity their lift capability diminished as the day got hotter and more humid.
They’ve been replaced by the old workhorse CH-47 shithooks which have been constantly upgraded since VN over 50 years ago. The last of the CH-54’s were put to civilian use for construction, fire fighting, etc.

 

[Tangmo]

This is one of the most disgusting things I've ever imagined my tax dollars being used for.

No one disagrees and I'm waiting to see how the 7000 troops selected from the Army's 10 combat divisions who will do the parade deed react to a building that's long been vacant and long condemned as utterly unfit for human habitation by the General Services Administration.

The Army says the troops daily food ration will be two MREs and a hot meal but I don't see how any kind of hot meal is possible at that catastrophe of a building, much less anyone occupying it for even an hour never mind several dayze in the heat and humidity of June.


24 Army Abrams M1 Main Battle Tanks will be transported by rail to Washington DC from the Sierra Army Depot in Herlong CA.

In Washington carrier vehicles will transport the tanks to their parade position at the Lincoln Memorial on the Washington bank of the Potomac River. The M1 tanks will not cross Potomac River bridges.


The electrical systems are a bust and the water systems are yet another bust. If there was thinking by the Army of moving temporary or mobile food kitchens onto each of the 7 floors that's a bust due to no or inadequate electricity, lighting and water supply -- and elevators that are kaput.

Setting up a food kitchen or several of 'em outside still would need to connect to power lines and include generators to cook the hot meal -- for 7000 troops inside the essentially bombed out building with no power, water or breathable air.




In the Operation Desert Storm Victory Parade in Washington DC on a hot and steamy 8th of June 1991 Army Abrams M1 Main Battle Tanks were spaced cautiously and calculatedly for crossing Memorial Bridge at the Lincoln Memorial marching from the District to the Pentagon at the Virginia banks of the Potomac River. The Abrams will not cross any Potomac bridges in this Double B-Day Parade on Saturday 6/14.


US Park Police said 800,000 turned out for the grand victory parade down Constitution Avenue.

EYES RIGHT!

Army Abrams M1 Main Battle Tanks march down Constitution Avenue in Washington DC in Operation Desert Storm Victory Parade. The District of Columbia official flag is displayed with the USA national standard along the parade route. The DC flag is red and white, two horizontal red bars and three stars in red.



In 1991 the WaPo reported that some of the 8,000 troops participating in the Desert Storm Victory Parade slept in the same government buildings we're hearing about in the present. Specifically, the Department of Agriculture and U.S. General Services Administration buildings were used for lodging. Some troops slept in the National Guard Armory and others were sheltered in various Reserve facilities in the DC area.

 

[RF667799]

No one disagrees and I'm waiting to see how the 7000 troops selected from the Army's 10 combat divisions who will do the parade deed react to a building that's long been vacant and long condemned as utterly unfit for human habitation by the General Services Administration.

The Army says the troops daily food ration will be two MREs and a hot meal but I don't see how any kind of hot meal is possible at that catastrophe of a building, much less anyone occupying it for even an hour never mind several dayze in the heat and humidity of June.

In the real Army, accommodations are often less than stellar.

24 Army Abrams M1 Main Battle Tanks will be transported by rail to Washington DC from the Sierra Army Depot in Herlong CA.
View attachment 67570737
In Washington carrier vehicles will transport the tanks to their parade position at the Lincoln Memorial on the Washington bank of the Potomac River. The M1 tanks will not cross Potomac River bridges.


The electrical systems are a bust and the water systems are yet another bust. If there was thinking by the Army of moving temporary or mobile food kitchens onto each of the 7 floors that's a bust due to no or inadequate electricity, lighting and water supply -- and elevators that are kaput.

Setting up a food kitchen or several of 'em outside still would need to connect to power lines and include generators to cook the hot meal -- for 7000 troops inside the essentially bombed out building with no power, water or breathable air.

Somehow, the Cav managed everyday to get us a hot meal of their famous chili-mac, all the way out on Range 301. I'm assuming they cooked it somewhere else and packed it into these insulated aluminum containers for delivery. We leeched off the Cav when we could.

In the Operation Desert Storm Victory Parade in Washington DC on a hot and steamy 8th of June 1991 Army Abrams M1 Main Battle Tanks were spaced cautiously and calculatedly for crossing Memorial Bridge at the Lincoln Memorial marching from the District to the Pentagon at the Virginia banks of the Potomac River. The Abrams will not cross any Potomac bridges in this Double B-Day Parade on Saturday 6/14.
View attachment 67570740

US Park Police said 800,000 turned out for the grand victory parade down Constitution Avenue.

EYES RIGHT!

Army Abrams M1 Main Battle Tanks march down Constitution Avenue in Washington DC in Operation Desert Storm Victory Parade. The District of Columbia official flag is displayed with the USA national standard along the parade route. The DC flag is red and white, two horizontal red bars and three stars in red.
View attachment 67570745


In 1991 the WaPo reported that some of the 8,000 troops participating in the Desert Storm Victory Parade slept in the same government buildings we're hearing about in the present. Specifically, the Department of Agriculture and U.S. General Services Administration buildings were used for lodging. Some troops slept in the National Guard Armory and others were sheltered in various Reserve facilities in the DC area.

 

[NWRatCon]

In the real Army, accommodations are often less than stellar.



Somehow, the Cav managed everyday to get us a hot meal of their famous chili-mac, all the way out on Range 301. I'm assuming they cooked it somewhere else and packed it into these insulated aluminum containers for delivery. We leeched off the Cav when we could.

I once was the Recorder for an officer discharge of a really incompetent Lieutenant. His first referred evaluation (there were three when he was referred and five by the time of the hearing) was triggered by his failure to deliver hot meals to troops in the field. He got lost on the way, and ordered the convoy with meals to return to base rather than admit getting lost, leaving 3 units without dinner. His excuse was "they would have been cold by then, anyway." Good day, sir!

 

[Oozlefinch]

I'm assuming they cooked it somewhere else and packed it into these insulated aluminum containers for delivery. We leeched off the Cav when we could.

They are called "Mermites", and the military still uses them to this day.

In really-really big field operations, I have seen the mess sections of multiple units pooled together, and they would all work together to make the meals for the various units. Then send out the meals from a centralized location to the units in mermites.

The plastic ones are what are most commonly seen now, but on occasion the smaller metal ones are still used today.

One can really tell who in here has actually served in the military and who has not by reading what they are saying. Anybody who has actually served in the military would know about mermites, and that hot chow in the field is often served out of them.

Oh, and in the bottom image the soldier is taking mermites away from a field kitchen. The older version was called the MKT, and the last I heard were still arguing over what to call the new one. Basically a mobile kitchen, one such trailer is designed to provide 3 meals a day for 2 companies.



Now I have never seen one of those newfangled containerized kitchens, but it is not all that different than the old MKT was.

 

[RF667799]

I once was the Recorder for an officer discharge of a really incompetent Lieutenant. His first referred evaluation (there were three when he was referred and five by the time of the hearing) was triggered by his failure to deliver hot meals to troops in the field. He got lost on the way, and ordered the convoy with meals to return to base rather than admit getting lost, leaving 3 units without dinner. His excuse was "they would have been cold by then, anyway." Good day, sir!

Time honored indication of good leadership. Take care of those you're responsible for, before you take care of yourself.

My granddaughter can get resentful sometimes when I insist she feed her pup before she sits down to dinner. Hopefully she'll understand some day.

 

[RF667799]

They are called "Mermites", and the military still uses them to this day.

In really-really big field operations, I have seen the mess sections of multiple units pooled together, and they would all work together to make the meals for the various units. Then send out the meals from a centralized location to the units in mermites.

The plastic ones are what are most commonly seen now, but on occasion the smaller metal ones are still used today.

One can really tell who in here has actually served in the military and who has not by reading what they are saying. Anybody who has actually served in the military would know about mermites, and that hot chow in the field is often served out of them.

Oh, and in the bottom image the soldier is taking mermites away from a field kitchen. The older version was called the MKT, and the last I heard were still arguing over what to call the new one. Basically a mobile kitchen, one such trailer is designed to provide 3 meals a day for 2 companies.



Now I have never seen one of those newfangled containerized kitchens, but it is not all that different than the old MKT was.

I called them "insulated aluminum containers" because the spell checker on my phone was having a fit about the nomenclature. We went through "thermites", "termites"...