(W:#243) Making fun of anti-vaxxers who died

[nota bene]

I think the effects are still being studied. It's nice that the pharmaceutical companies aren't able to be sued over any adverse effects.

Yes. Thoughtful. Some might even say "enlightened self-interest."

 

[Overitall]

Yes. Thoughtful. Some might even say "enlightened self-interest."

I'm wondering what politicians have alot of stock in these companies.

 

[Ethel2]

So if they get vaccinated, the vaccinated will not be endangered again? Except in breakthrough cases.

Vaccinated people are far less likely to transmit the virus for many reasons. We all know that breakthrough cases happen but usually they are either asymptomatic or mild.
Vaccines save lives and misery. There’s simply no excuse any more not to get your shots other than a medical excuse-and those are very rare.

 

[nota bene]

I've heard that's happening more often. That could be why Biden is pushing for a third shot - the vaccines aren't living up to the hype.

I think we've all read now about boosters after, variously, 6 months and 8 months. The vaccines are new, and we are still learning. I think it's just preposterous to claim that we know all that needs to be known, particularly in comparison to vaccines whose efficacies have been studied for decades. We don't know yet. Will a COVID vaccination become an annual event, for example?

 

[Ethel2]

I've heard that's happening more often. That could be why Biden is pushing for a third shot - the vaccines aren't living up to the hype.

Wrong
The effectiveness of the Covid vaccines decreases over time like nearly every other vaccine.
Ever get a tetanus booster? Why do you think they are recommended every 10 years?

 

[nota bene]

I'm wondering what politicians have alot of stock in these companies.

I hope that investigative reporters are too.

 

[Overitall]

I think we've all read now about boosters after, variously, 6 months and 8 months. The vaccines are new, and we are still learning. I think it's just preposterous to claim that we know all that needs to be known, particularly in comparison to vaccines whose efficacies have been studied for decades. We don't know yet. Will a COVID vaccination become an annual event, for example?

I'm convinced that these shots will be annually given, like flu shots. Covid is here to stay, unfortunately. Once this is acknowledged the grip that politicians are using to control the masses will be ineffective. People will only live in fear for so long before they say enough of this. You're starting to see it at our National pastimes -- sport games.

 

[nota bene]

Wrong
The effectiveness of the Covid vaccines decreases over time like nearly every other vaccine.
Ever get a tetanus booster? Why do you think they are recommended every 10 years?

At issue, of course, is how long the COVID vaccines will be effective. Which one(s)? We don't know yet.

The breakthrough cases are suggestive of the vaccines being effective for even 10 months.

 

[Overitall]

Wrong
The effectiveness of the Covid vaccines decreases over time like nearly every other vaccine.
Ever get a tetanus booster? Why do you think they are recommended every 10 years?

How many of these breakthrough cases occurred where the vaccinated were just recently vaccinated? Do you have that data?

 

[nota bene]

I'm convinced that these shots will be annually given, like flu shots. Covid is here to stay, unfortunately. Once this is acknowledged the grip that politicians are using to control the masses will be ineffective. People will only live in fear for so long before they say enough of this. You're starting to see it at our National pastimes -- sport games.

I very much hope that you're mistaken that COVID is here to stay. But my layperson's guess is that we don't know enough yet to be able to offer an annual vaccine. And I guess this is really my point--all these "expert" pronouncements and comparisons to other vaccines is premature. WE DON'T KNOW YET.

 

[Ethel2]

I'm convinced that these shots will be annually given, like flu shots. Covid is here to stay, unfortunately. Once this is acknowledged the grip that politicians are using to control the masses will be ineffective. People will only live in fear for so long before they say enough of this. You're starting to see it at our National pastimes -- sport games.

Very few people are "living in fear" by now. The pandemic has been going on for long enough for people to respect the virus without fearing it. Its only those on the far right that are afraid and consistently mention fear as a motivating factor.
Yes, you can see it in sporting events where vaccination is required for entry to the event in some places. Andrew Wiggins, who plays for the Golden State Warriors (or at least has up until now) has refused to get vaccinated and therefore, by San Francisco vaccination mandate, will not be allowed into the arena to play at home games. Very sound policy, requiring vaccination to enter large events.

 

[nota bene]

Very few people are "living in fear" by now. The pandemic has been going on for long enough for people to respect the virus without fearing it. Its only those on the far right that are afraid and consistently mention fear as a motivating factor.
Yes, you can see it in sporting events where vaccination is required for entry to the event in some places. Andrew Wiggins, who plays for the Golden State Warriors (or at least has up until now) has refused to get vaccinated and therefore, by San Francisco vaccination mandate, will not be allowed into the arena to play at home games. Very sound policy, requiring vaccination to enter large events.

Now, Ethel, how do you know how many people are living in fear?

And is there only one one-size-fits-all fear, or are there more than just one?

 

[Overitall]

I very much hope that you're mistaken that COVID is here to stay. But my layperson's guess is that we don't know enough yet to be able to offer an annual vaccine. And I guess this is really my point--all these "expert" pronouncements and comparisons to other vaccines is premature. WE DON'T KNOW YET.

From the little I know (or understand) the virus can be carried in animals. As long as a host exists I don't see how it will ever vanish. It might end up mutating to a less contagious or severe form but still capable of killing people who are at greater risk.

 

[Ethel2]

How many of these breakthrough cases occurred where the vaccinated were just recently vaccinated? Do you have that data?

It depends on which study you look at and what level of symptoms you are referring to. If you are referring to delta I found this:

ESTIMATED EFFECTIVENESS OF PFIZER-BIONTECH VACCINE
Vaccine effectiveness was 87 to 96 percent for all outcomes before Delta, but now it’s 39 to 84 percent effective against infection and 75 to 95 percent effective against hospitalization

ESTIMATED EFFECTIVENESS OF MODERNA COVID-19 VACCINE
Vaccine effectiveness was around 80 to 95 percent for all outcomes before Delta, but now it’s 50 to 72 percent effective against infection and over 80 percent effective against hospitalization.

I believe that the effectiveness was measured at least two weeks after the second dose and wanes over time.
I don't think many people are concerned about minor infections-they just don't want to end up in the hospital or dead.
In the clinical trials with the alpha virus effectiveness was very high, around 95% for preventing symptomatic disease.

 

[Ethel2]

Now, Ethel, how do you know how many people are living in fear?

And is there only one one-size-fits-all fear, or are there more than just one?

People acclimate. Basic psychology. Eventually you get somewhat numb to the presence of a danger; you respect it but you cannot go around shaking in your boots all day for years. Just a guess, but I don't think many people are "fearful"; they are careful. The use of the term "fear" is a ploy by the far right to label sane policies as stoking fear in people, fear that likely doesn't exist much any more.

 

[jaeger19]

If people are dealt with harshly, there will be backlash.

I don't understand how you can sit in judgment of those you don't know and pronounce them as caring only about themselves and having zero sense of responsibility.

Their actions or lack thereof speak loudly.

 

[Overitall]

It depends on which study you look at and what level of symptoms you are referring to. If you are referring to delta I found this:

ESTIMATED EFFECTIVENESS OF PFIZER-BIONTECH VACCINE
Vaccine effectiveness was 87 to 96 percent for all outcomes before Delta, but now it’s 39 to 84 percent effective against infection and 75 to 95 percent effective against hospitalization

ESTIMATED EFFECTIVENESS OF MODERNA COVID-19 VACCINE
Vaccine effectiveness was around 80 to 95 percent for all outcomes before Delta, but now it’s 50 to 72 percent effective against infection and over 80 percent effective against hospitalization.

I believe that the effectiveness was measured at least two weeks after the second dose and wanes over time.
I don't think many people are concerned about minor infections-they just don't want to end up in the hospital or dead.
In the clinical trials with the alpha virus effectiveness was very high, around 95% for preventing symptomatic disease.

I suppose I should have been more specific in that I was thinking of breakthrough cases resulting in hospitalizations and/or deaths. Nevertheless any one of the carriers of the virus can transmit it to someone else that is more at risk. That means that even the vaccinated can cause deaths. The vaccines sole purpose is to protect the ones vaccinated. I'm confident enough in its effectiveness not to worry so much about the unvaccinated. I'll still use precautions nevertheless out of recognition that the virus is circulating and anyone could be carriers of it. What I won't do is use victims of the virus to bully those who have made a personal choice that I don't agree with.

 

[nota bene]

Their actions or lack thereof speak loudly.

Perhaps they do...but the condemnation and outright schadefreude when someone dies doesn't exactly speak well of those who know everything there is to know and are themselves perfect and therefore perfectly positioned to sit in judgment of others.

 

[nota bene]

People acclimate. Basic psychology. Eventually you get somewhat numb to the presence of a danger; you respect it but you cannot go around shaking in your boots all day for years. Just a guess, but I don't think many people are "fearful"; they are careful. The use of the term "fear" is a ploy by the far right to label sane policies as stoking fear in people, fear that likely doesn't exist much any more.

I see. It's all about the "right." Not really about the disease; this is just a political launching pad.

 

[jaeger19]

I think we've all read now about boosters after, variously, 6 months and 8 months. The vaccines are new, and we are still learning. I think it's just preposterous to claim that we know all that needs to be known, particularly in comparison to vaccines whose efficacies have been studied for decades. We don't know yet. Will a COVID vaccination become an annual event, for example?

Listen..why don't you stop .
We know know matter how much research is done..how long the vaccines are out..
No matter what you will be against them.
I am tired of the bs.
" oh but we don't really know about these vaccines"
And then these same people are asking me for prescriptions for hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin which are not only not approved for covid but are way more dangerous than covid vaccination.
So let's just cut through the bull.

 

[nota bene]

Listen..why don't you stop .
We know know matter how much research is done..how long the vaccines are out..
No matter what you will be against them.
I am tired of the bs.
" oh but we don't really know about these vaccines"
And then these same people are asking me for prescriptions for hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin which are not only not approved for covid but are way more dangerous than covid vaccination.
So let's just cut through the bull.

What a rush to judgment when you say that I am against vaccines. Shaking my head.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

I've heard that's happening more often. That could be why Biden is pushing for a third shot - the vaccines aren't living up to the hype.

So the Trump vaccines are worthless?

 

[jaeger19]

Perhaps they do...but the condemnation and outright schadefreude when someone dies doesn't exactly speak well of those who know everything there is to know and are themselves perfect and therefore perfectly positioned to sit in judgment of others.

Pooh. That's a made up fantasy to justify their choices.
Seriously..you really want me to believe that's their real argument?
" gosh..I really wanted to get vaccinated but boo hoo.. these people judged me for not already taking the vaccine"?
Come now..you just don't want to be criticized for a choice that endangers others and goes against known medical science.

 

[jaeger19]

What a rush to judgment when you say that I am against vaccines. Shaking my head.

Pooh...I know you are going to try and claim..well it's just THIS vaccine or whatever excuse you have made for you or others. Heck perhaps you have been vaccinated for covid but you are recommending others don't get it or supporting their choice because you want to make sure you are back in the tribe.

I have seen it and heard it. Right up until they need mechanical ventilation and they beg for the vaccine.

 

[Fledermaus]

So everyone who gets covid dies?

Who stated that?

Oh, talking shit again, eh?