(W:#243) Making fun of anti-vaxxers who died

[Geoist]

The math of 70% efficacy against Delta combined with a reproductive number of 8. If you do the math, you'll see that reduction of transmission rate is the best we can hope for until we get a more robust immunity.

And the point isn't about reducing the rate to zero, it's about reducing the rate as much as possible

By weakening, I mean we are all suffering the human condition.

Then why critique anything or anyone at all?

We will all die at some point.

Uh huh...

So let's get through this together without casting judgement at a group of people that we wish to blame "the continued pandemic" on. It simply isn't true. What is true is that they are burdening the health system, yes. The are acceleratijg the transmission, yes. But they are not the reason the pandemic persists. In blaming them, indeed it as some form of projection of one's own anger. You can only control what you can control.

I am not blaming them for a continued pandemic necessarily. I am blaming them for making the continued pandemic worse.

 

[Overitall]

We know how herd immunity works.



It's clear no one understands what you are saying.



Even more reason to get jabbed.



No shit...


No one said otherwise.



My antivax uncle is in the hospital right now with COVID. My antivax relatives didn't even want to tell me. Probably out of pride which is ****ed up.

Hopefully he will have a full recovery.

 

[LostinThought]

Those monsters have blood on their hands.

And so do you, what's the point here?

 

[bomberfox]

You've heard all that you're willing to think about, you mean. I'm not interested in having my praises sung; what I am interested in is discussing this issue with those who are willing to entertain the wild notion that others may not believe as they do. I think, so convinced are you that you're "spot on," that you're too busy congratulating yourself to do that.

It is not a matter of just beliefs. Their beliefs inform their actions and their actions make life miserable for the lot of us.

 

[jaeger19]

Show me the math to support that statement then. I will grant you a 100% coverage for COVID vaccines, which we know will not happen. Reproductive number = 8 and vaccine efficiency against infection = 70% (upper end of range). These aren't my numbers, they are published. Now show me, unless we get a different vaccine or better immunity via natural infection, how transmission stops with these numbers I gave you. These are reality.

Simple.. you fail to understand that the RO
only applies when a population is completely vulnerable to a disease. In other words no one has had the disease nor been vaccinated.

What Is R0? Gauging Contagious Infections

R0 indicates how contagious a disease is. Learn how it works and the R0 values for various diseases.

www.healthline.com

That situation does apply in a situation with a vaccine and natural immunity.

Let's say you vaccinated everyone in the us in one day. That only leaves 30% of the population at risk. ( assuming efficacy of 70%for infection)
Distances between people alone will reduce chance of infection and the virus will die out..even if all 30% that are vulnerable can come in contact with each other ( highly unlikely)
As they get infected they get natural immunity which reduces the number of folks that can get it..thus further causing the virus to die out.

Of course the slower we get people vaccinated the longer it will take for the virus to die out.

 

[fireflygmf]

Simple.. you fail to understand that the RO
only applies when a population is completely vulnerable to a disease. In other words no one has had the disease nor been vaccinated.

What Is R0? Gauging Contagious Infections

R0 indicates how contagious a disease is. Learn how it works and the R0 values for various diseases.

www.healthline.com

That situation does apply in a situation with a vaccine and natural immunity.

Let's say you vaccinated everyone in the us in one day. That only leaves 30% of the population at risk. ( assuming efficacy of 70%for infection)
Distances between people alone will reduce chance of infection and the virus will die out..even if all 30% that are vulnerable can come in contact with each other ( highly unlikely)
As they get infected they get natural immunity which reduces the number of folks that can get it..thus further causing the virus to die out.

Of course the slower we get people vaccinated the longer it will take for the virus to die out.

This is the scenario I was trying to describe. Either we need supplemental boosting via some other vaccine or we will need some natural exposure to get Rt < 1. My point is that if you vaccinate all in a day, to use your example, given the R0 = 8 (after everyone is vaccinated probably Rt = 1.x), but still Rt > 1 given no restrictions. We've managed to slow it, but not stop it. That's all I'm saying

So to say that it's the unvaccinated that continue the spread is false. They are accelerating it, crowding hospitals, but it would continue to spread regardless.

 

[jaeger19]

This is the scenario I was trying to describe. Either we need supplemental boosting via some other vaccine or we will need some natural exposure to get Rt < 1. My point is that if you vaccinate all in a day, to use your example, given the R0 = 8 (after everyone is vaccinated probably Rt = 1.x), but still Rt > 1 given no restrictions. We've managed to slow it, but not stop it. That's all I'm saying

So to say that it's the unvaccinated that continue the spread is false. They are accelerating it, crowding hospitals, but it would continue to spread regardless.

And as pointed out and linked to R0 is based on the assumption that no one is immune. And that's not the case.
Mathematically..if people get vaccinated the virus will have basically no where to go and will die out.
The virus cannot Replicate without a host. Remove the potential hosts and the virus dies. And not all potential hosts have to be removed since the virus has a limited travel range outside a host.
Mathematically we can get rid of.covid.
Yes..with the vaccine not having 100 % efficacy it will take longer..but it can still happen as it has with other vacvine..none of which have 100% effectiveness.
Yes..its the unvaccinated that are creating the large pool of hosts for covid to replicate in

 

[fireflygmf]

And as pointed out and linked to R0 is based on the assumption that no one is immune. And that's not the case.
Mathematically..if people get vaccinated the virus will have basically no where to go and will die out.
The virus cannot Replicate without a host. Remove the potential hosts and the virus dies. And not all potential hosts have to be removed since the virus has a limited travel range outside a host.
Mathematically we can get rid of.covid.
Yes..with the vaccine not having 100 % efficacy it will take longer..but it can still happen as it has with other vacvine..none of which have 100% effectiveness.
Yes..its the unvaccinated that are creating the large pool of hosts for covid to replicate in

Yes, but I've also described Rt, reproductive number over time as immunity grows. The point being that Rt cannot be below 1 given R0 of 8 and efficacy against infection of 70%. That calculates to Rt > 1. We've decreased the transmission rate, but we won't stop it. We need to get everyone to have better than 70% protection against infection for that to happen, possibly with some type of booster or natural exposure after being vaccinated.

 

[weaver2]

I don't understand how you can sit in judgment of those you don't know and pronounce them as caring only about themselves and having zero sense of responsibility.

That's exactly the same thing pro-choice advocates would like to know about you, " how can you sit in judgment of those you don't know and pronounce them as caring only about themselves and having zero sense of responsibility."

Why do we as a society have to respect those that are " vaccination hesitant" (hilarious term, have you seen the posters they hold up) be understanding of their situations and treat them graciously while we watch some small child die from covid because they didn't vaccinate or wear masks. They are the same people that are out on the street during anti-abortion rallies screaming , "Murderer" "Selfish slut" at women they don't know.

Why the contorted sympathy for anti-vaxxers who are endangering lives especially children's lives and the denigration of women who get abortion which endanger no born lives.

 

[Overitall]

That's exactly the same thing pro-choice advocates would like to know about you, " how can you sit in judgment of those you don't know and pronounce them as caring only about themselves and having zero sense of responsibility."

Why do we as a society have to respect those that are " vaccination hesitant" (hilarious term, have you seen the posters they hold up) be understanding of their situations and treat them graciously while we watch some small child die from covid because they didn't vaccinate or wear masks. They are the same people that are out on the street during anti-abortion rallies screaming , "Murderer" "Selfish slut" at women they don't know.

Why the contorted sympathy for anti-vaxxers who are endangering lives especially children's lives and the denigration of women who get abortion which endanger no born lives.

If disrespect was directed towards the living antivaxxers you might have a point but the thread's subject is about being disrespectful to the dead by using their deaths to verbally attack the living. It's based on the false premise that antivaxxers don't care about the deaths. Antivaxxers don't have a death wish, nor celebrate when one of their own die. I see that celebration going on with the antivaxxers haters.

 

[snakestretcher]

The coward part shows in the bullying, hatred, and criticism of those who didn't follow Covid protocols so as to keep you and yours in food and toilet paper. They lived out in Covid - without the vaccine - and did just fine without it. If you want them to listen then stop beating them on the head with the hatred and name calling.

Over 650,000 in your country didn't do 'just fine', and I strongly suspect many of those who died were of a similar 'it's my choice' mindset. Vaccine mandates with real repercussions for the refusers can't come soon enough.

 

[snakestretcher]

No, in my world the people who are trying to bully them into getting the vaccine are stupid and evil even. Those people worked for a year - for the benefit of all - without a vaccine and were FINE. If the vaxxers REALLY wanted to change their minds to get them to vaccinate now then giving them the credit they deserve in the first place would be a GREAT place to start.

But, instead, as you said, people don't give a damn about them. Isn't it great though that they sure gave a damn about people when it mattered most. \

So, you just proved the point I've made all along. The bullying and mandates aren't about getting them vaccinated at all - it's all about building up the self-righteous, smug, superiority of the vaxxers.

We are superior-and being alive and well proves it. For all I care the antis can go stand in front of a speeding train if they're so anxious to die prematurely. Most of us aren't that stupid.

 

[screenwriter]

We are superior-and alive.

So everyone who has covid dies? Is that what you're saying?

 

[snakestretcher]

So everyone who has covid dies? Is that what you're saying?

No; you're saying that, but there are very nasty potential long-term consequences awaiting those who recovered-if they're unlucky.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview

COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.

www.webmd.com

Would you want to drag an oxygen cylinder around for the rest of your life, or risk brain damage because your arrogant refusal to be vaccinated got you sick?

 

[screenwriter]

Over 650,000 in your country didn't do 'just fine', and I strongly suspect many of those who died were of a similar 'it's my choice' mindset. Vaccine mandates with real repercussions for the refusers can't come soon enough.

Many of those who died - 73% - were Obese.
78% of the people who required hospitalization with Covid are obese.
Obesity is something that has some REAL repercussions for refusers (aka those who "celebrate" obesity as a normal body type) to believe - obesity is NOT "normal" and NOT "healthy". And Covid morbidity and mortality are joined at the hip to obesity.
Vaccines aren't nearly as effective in the obese.
Covid is the perfect storm. A disease that has a higher morbidity and mortality in the obese comes along at a time there is a GLOBAL obesity crisis.
43,725,604 total cases - which is even stale data at this point but close enough. Yes, a lot of people died but just look how many recovered - but recovery doesn't fit your agenda - does it?

 

[screenwriter]

No; you're saying that, but there are very nasty potential long-term consequences awaiting those who recovered-if they're unlucky.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview

COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.

www.webmd.com

Would you want to drag an oxygen cylinder around for the rest of your life, or risk brain damage because your arrogant refusal to be vaccinated got you sick?

So now you're saying no one ever recovers from Covid?

 

[snakestretcher]

Many of those who died - 73% - were Obese.
78% of the people who required hospitalization with Covid are obese.
Obesity is something that has some REAL repercussions for refusers (aka those who "celebrate" obesity as a normal body type) to believe - obesity is NOT "normal" and NOT "healthy". And Covid morbidity and mortality are joined at the hip to obesity.
Vaccines aren't nearly as effective in the obese.
Covid is the perfect storm. A disease that has a higher morbidity and mortality in the obese comes along at a time there is a GLOBAL obesity crisis.
43,725,604 total cases - which is even stale data at this point but close enough. Yes, a lot of people died but just look how many recovered - but recovery doesn't fit your agenda - does it?

Very good. Considering that 66% of all Americans are clinically obese are you suggesting that being fat was a contributory factor in all those deaths?

 

[snakestretcher]

So now you're saying no one ever recovers from Covid?

No, again quit inventing what you imagine I said. Did you not notice the word 'potential' in my post?

Definition of POTENTIAL

existing in possibility : capable of development into actuality; expressing possibility; specifically : of, relating to, or constituting a verb phrase expressing possibility, liberty, or power by the use of an auxiliary with the infinitive of the verb (as in 'it may rain')… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[screenwriter]

We are superior-and being alive and well proves it. For all I care the antis can go stand in front of a speeding train if they're so anxious to die prematurely. Most of us aren't that stupid.

Then why are you so scared? You're vaccinated.

 

[snakestretcher]

Then why are you so scared? You're vaccinated.

When did I suggest I was scared? Do you never stop inventing stuff about other people, and what you imagine they think, say or do?

 

[screenwriter]

No, again quit inventing what you imagine I said. Did you not notice the word 'potential' in my post?

Definition of POTENTIAL

existing in possibility : capable of development into actuality; expressing possibility; specifically : of, relating to, or constituting a verb phrase expressing possibility, liberty, or power by the use of an auxiliary with the infinitive of the verb (as in 'it may rain')… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Then, why the sky is falling routine? The number one predictor of Long Covid, Serious Covid, and Covid mortality is obesity. If you really REALLY wanted to save lives from Covid - you'd have BMI mandates. Willing to go there? Willing to tell people to get in shape so they too can survive covid.

 

[screenwriter]

When did I suggest I was scared? Do you never stop inventing stuff about other people, and what you imagine they think, say or do?

Then what's the issue? Why so adamant that everyone be vaccinated?

 

[snakestretcher]

Then, why the sky is falling routine? The number one predictor of Long Covid, Serious Covid, and Covid mortality is obesity. If you really REALLY wanted to save lives from Covid - you'd have BMI mandates. Willing to go there? Willing to tell people to get in shape so they too can survive covid.

So why are so many young, fit and healthy people dying? Answer that.

 

[screenwriter]

Very good. Considering that 66% of all Americans are clinically obese are you suggesting that being fat was a contributory factor in all those deaths?

Am I suggesting? It's not a suggestion. It's a fact. Not my fact that I drew out of thin air - CDC - 73% of all Covid deaths were Obese. 78% of Covid patients who required hospital care are obese.

 

[snakestretcher]

Then what's the issue? Why so adamant that everyone be vaccinated?

If you still need to ask that after eighteen months of the disease there's no hope for you.