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[W:233] Virtually all hospitalized Covid patients have one thing in common

noonereal said:
not so much it turns out

don't do this to yours

www.nbcnews.com

After teen daughter hospitalized with Covid, mom regrets saying no to vaccine

"It's heartbreaking. I wish I would've made better choices for her," said an Arkansas mother of her 13-year-old daughter, hospitalized with Covid-19.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
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There’s just way too much misinformation out there. Just because kids aren’t dying in large numbers doesn’t mean they can’t suffer unnecessarily with this virus. Many have no symptoms; many are sick for a couple of weeks before they recover. The vaccines are safe for adults and results of the studies for younger kids will be out in a few months. I doubt there will be undiscovered side effects.
For now there is absolutely no reason not to vaccinate everyone who is eligible, stupidity notwithstanding.
 
ElChupacabra said:
Vaccinations are already required for children to enter school. How would this be any different than what is already in place?


I've been using the 50% number you cited, but studies show it is higher than that, for the record. Please cite the 50% number since I haven't seen that figure floated in most of the medical information I've read.
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Covid is not a risk to the vast majority of children therefore we should not vaccinate them…especially since vaccination only reduces infection rate to still relatively high levels.

Overall, the likelihood of household transmission was approximately 40 to 50% lower in households of index patients who had been vaccinated 21 days or more before testing positive than in households of unvaccinated index patients; the findings were similar for the two vaccines.
 
ElChupacabra said:
Vaccinating the rest of the world is going to be challenging, but to suggest that doing nothing is a better option doesn't sound like a better option at all. There are already efforts underway to get the vaccine to many of the nations which have not gotten any (or very little), and many of them are eager to receive the vaccines. The irony here being that much of the world wants to vaccines and those vaccines are sitting in countries where some of the people don't want them.

As for vaccinating animals, let's start with protecting people first because if we reduce transmission and protect people first, animals will benefit as well.
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You will never vaccinate Covid away…we’ve never managed that with any coronavirus…because the virus is within the animal kingdom …plus mutations happen quicker than a world wide vaccination program.


And once more, vaccination prevents serious illness not infection.
 
Fledermaus said:
Intentional ignorance of the very real COVID concerns...
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1 in 50,000 chance of going to ECU and a 1 in 500,000 chance of dying...and only a 50% reduction in infection rates after double jab…do the ****ing maths.
 
Ethel2 said:
There’s just way too much misinformation out there. Just because kids aren’t dying in large numbers doesn’t mean they can’t suffer unnecessarily with this virus. Many have no symptoms; many are sick for a couple of weeks before they recover. The vaccines are safe for adults and results of the studies for younger kids will be out in a few months. I doubt there will be undiscovered side effects.
For now there is absolutely no reason not to vaccinate everyone who is eligible, stupidity notwithstanding.
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Are you going to be giving kids a yearly flu jab from now on?
 
Big Eye said:
You will never vaccinate Covid away…we’ve never managed that with any coronavirus…because the virus is within the animal kingdom …plus mutations happen quicker than a world wide vaccination program.


And once more, vaccination prevents serious illness not infection.
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Fully? Maybe, maybe not. We can expand the vaccination to help drive the spread down though. Some diseases have been nearly wiped out because of vaccinations, so it's not entirely impossible. The vaccines also have an efficacy rate against transmission, so having them is better than not having them. If exposure to the virus wouldn't lead to high number of hospitalizations and death, then letting it spread naturally might be acceptable. Since that's not the case, vaccinating people is a better way to go.
 
Big Eye said:
Covid is not a risk to the vast majority of children therefore we should not vaccinate them…especially since vaccination only reduces infection rate to still relatively high levels.

Overall, the likelihood of household transmission was approximately 40 to 50% lower in households of index patients who had been vaccinated 21 days or more before testing positive than in households of unvaccinated index patients; the findings were similar for the two vaccines.
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Except that percentage would even be higher if they (and the people in their household) were not vaccinated. I'm not sure how that is a sound argument considering the minimal risks to children and adults in the data we have thus far.
 
ElChupacabra said:
Fully? Maybe, maybe not. We can expand the vaccination to help drive the spread down though. Some diseases have been nearly wiped out because of vaccinations, so it's not entirely impossible. The vaccines also have an efficacy rate against transmission, so having them is better than not having them. If exposure to the virus wouldn't lead to high number of hospitalizations and death, then letting it spread naturally might be acceptable. Since that's not the case, vaccinating people is a better way to go.
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This disease is too transmittable and mutatable to be vaccinated out of existence.

I’m also sure that overvaccinating has issues too…but I haven’t got time for that issue tonight.
 
ElChupacabra said:
Except that percentage would even be higher if they (and the people in their household) were not vaccinated. I'm not sure how that is a sound argument considering the minimal risks to children and adults in the data we have thus far.
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The argument is that you don’t vaccinate kids for a disease that is extremely low risk for them in order to have a marginal gain with regard to lowering infection rates. A 50% lowering in infections sounds great but in reality that’s still extremely infectious…this disease seems to be extremely transmittable.
 
Big Eye said:
This disease is too transmittable and mutatable to be vaccinated out of existence.
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That doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't slow it down.

Big Eye said:
I’m also sure that overvaccinating has issues too…but I haven’t got time for that issue tonight.
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We are nowhere near "over vaccinating".
 
Big Eye said:
The argument is that you don’t vaccinate kids for a disease that is extremely low risk for them in order to have a marginal gain with regard to lowering infection rates. A 50% lowering in infections sounds great but in reality that’s still extremely infectious…this disease seems to be extremely transmittable.
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But it is a gain nonetheless and little to no identified risk. You're arguing that a 0% chance of prevention is better than 50% chance.
 
Big Eye said:
Are you going to be giving kids a yearly flu jab from now on?
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I am retired though still licensed. I don’t give annual flu shots.
I made myself available to give Covid vaccines to people because the need is urgent, including the need in kids. If necessary I will also be around to help vaccinated people annually, though I don’t think that will be necessary.
 
Big Eye said:
You will never vaccinate Covid away…we’ve never managed that with any coronavirus…because the virus is within the animal kingdom …plus mutations happen quicker than a world wide vaccination program.


And once more, vaccination prevents serious illness not infection.
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More misinformation. Vaccination reduces both colonization and viral load (=less forward transmission).
Do you ever produce anything here that is true?

www.advisory.com

Do Covid-19 vaccines stop coronavirus transmission? Here's what research says.

A handful of recent studies suggest that the coronavirus vaccines developed by Pfizer and Moderna not only prevent people who are exposed to the virus from contracting Covid-19, but also prevent them from spreading the virus to others—and some experts say public health messaging should start...
www.advisory.com www.advisory.com
 
Big Eye said:
Are you going to be giving kids a yearly flu jab from now on?
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Flu vaccine is a joke. It is only recommended for the general population in two countries on the entire globe.

This has NOTHING to do with Covid vaccines. Bringing it up in this context is a fallacy of logic. But, that is all you have got.
 
ElChupacabra said:
That doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't slow it down.


We are nowhere near "over vaccinating".
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When all at risk are vaccinated it’s time to let healthier younger people build immunity the natural way. These vaccines have not been tested over a longer term…hold back for a couple of years…then if they are safe for kids fine. ..but I reiterate, vaccinating kids for a disease that doesn’t harm them is immoral unless it is proven risks from the vaccine are lower than the risk of the disease to them.
 
Big Eye said:
When all at risk are vaccinated it’s time to let healthier younger people build immunity the natural way. These vaccines have not been tested over a longer term…hold back for a couple of years…then if they are safe for kids fine. ..but I reiterate, vaccinating kids for a disease that doesn’t harm them is immoral unless it is proven risks from the vaccine are lower than the risk of the disease to them.
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You want healthy young people infected with a potentially lethal disease so the develop a resistance to that very same disease so they don't catch it again....

BRILLIANT!!!!
 
ElChupacabra said:
But it is a gain nonetheless and little to no identified risk. You're arguing that a 0% chance of prevention is better than 50% chance.
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You misunderstand that a 50% reduction of a very transmittable disease still leaves high transmissibility …like our Health Secretary is currently finding out…he’s double jabbed and has caught Covid . Would you still let kids visit ar risk people after vaccination? The deal is if you’re worried about at risk people it is much safer not letting the kids near them. I do wonder who is supposed to be at risk now though…all at risk should be double jabbed.
 
Fledermaus said:
Bleating about the death rates while ignoring the other concerns.....
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You don’t give a **** about people not getting other treatments …you are a Covid obsessive even though it’s hardly killing anyone or causing long term harm to any more people than the flu would.
 
Big Eye said:
You misunderstand that a 50% reduction of a very transmittable disease still leaves high transmissibility …like our Health Secretary is currently finding out…he’s double jabbed and has caught Covid . Would you still let kids visit ar risk people after vaccination? The deal is if you’re worried about at risk people it is much safer not letting the kids near them. I do wonder who is supposed to be at risk now though…all at risk should be double jabbed.
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Vaccinated =/= decrease in severity and transmission.

Why is that a bad thing?
 
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