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[W:#23,579]Ukraine War Thread

The Russian Federation should be able to raise at least 6 million men given their some 140 million plus population.
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You're suggesting your view or sense that at this point Putin might want a great deal more of Ukraine than Donbas.


Way things are, I am inclined to think it will be dangerous for him to leave a rump Ukraine standing. Unless he wants a Croatia Redux. In the early years of the Yugoslavian wars the Serbians had the upper hand over the Croatians and seized Serb rich Croatian Krajna. Then there was a stalemate. During which times the west, especially Germany, armed the Croats, and when the times were right they evicted the Serbs from Krajna in a blitz. A rump Ukraine will be trained and armed into a formidable Sparta by the west. And if the economic war grinds down Russia, the armed to the teeth Ukraine will take to the field against the Russians.

"Never leave an enemy behind or it will rise again to fly at your throat! There's no other way!", Shaka Zulu. Putin will be wise to heed the words of Shaka.



And perhaps that after securing Donbas, as Putin may be calculating, he might believe he can whip up Russian opinion to go for the whole thing after all.


I believe the Russians are all for it.


If so, whether you might accept this as likely and possible would be irrelevant, although I can see very clearly that at the moment you're licking your chops. Myself, I don't put it past Putin to be up for it.


LOL licking my chops.
 
The Russian Federation should be able to raise at least 6 million men given their some 140 million plus population.
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That's assuming any one of those 140M+ people will want to be a part of their country's acts of barbarity towards their neighbors.


They are all for liberating fellow Russians who have been at the heels of Ukronazis.


This thread is full of news reports of military enlistment centers being torched in Russia. We here in the states know that pretty well from the Vietnam War days.


If we went by this thread- and my gratitude to JANFU for all he has done- Russia would be long dead


100+ days into this mess and already Russia is seeing the same stuff we saw during the height of the anti-war movement? Not a good sign for Putzin and the Dumbasses Dumas.


LOL man, you are gullible. :)
 
I am sure there are scattered Ukrainian fighters strewn about in the newly aquired Severodonetsk - Lysychansk area. A few days of mopping up by the Russians is likely before any major offensive.


They may also have switched sides. Contrary to what our fellow posters of the pro Ukrainian bent may assert, the fact of the matter is that much of the Ukrainian population can adjust just fine with either a Russian or Kyiv regime. And that is common in the history of that area. I read a little article a while ago where the guy talks of his village somewhere in Hungary, if I recall right. I recall he said his grandfather or so changed citizenship like three times without ever leaving his village. And without even applying. Various treaties simply moved the village around. In 2014 a good chunk of the Ukrainian Navy bolted to the Russian Navy.
 
Lot of Russian Billionaires, some including their family, are being killed. 1 way to keep Oligarchs in line
 
2 of the 4 HIMARS that Ukraine has, have been destroyed by Russia. Time to start draining the West for more and more.
 
Some people think that Ukraine should be countering with an offensive
That said, many are Putin collaborators
This is your intoned response to my post tongue in cheek that Zelensky wants his Army to crash through the gates of the Kremlin.

Absurd.
 
2 of the 4 HIMARS that Ukraine has, have been destroyed by Russia. Time to start draining the West for more and more.
Proof aside from Russian sources. Can you do that?
 
Proof aside from Russian sources. Can you do that?
Why is Ukraine's word on this better than Russia's word. Ukraine tells CNN something and you say that is another source. It isn't. Russia's word has been much more accurate than the crap coming from Ukraine.
 
I pretty much agree. A few additional thoughts:

1) "Mobilization" of industry suggests that production is inadequate (esp under sanctions) and the need to dip into stored reserves and rehab them, and repair damaged vehicles, is getting very urgent. Given their loss of thousands of vehicles, I am not surprised.

2) Putin wants to avoid general mobilization at all costs. He has sold this war as a "special operation" and wants to prove Russia's peacetime military and air can deal with it. He is also aware of the unpopularity of conscription, and the economic and social uncertainties of turning Russia into a militarized nation.

3) Russians have finally found a strategy that works. No grand armored sweeps across the fields of Ukraine will has worked. What has worked is concentrating most of the theater artillery in a front 50km wide and using their endless stockpiles of shells, Putin knowing full well that Ukrainian air cannot reach them, Ukrainian spotting drones will likely be shot down, and the fate of civilians he is "liberating" (to their graves) is irrelevant.

4) Ukrainians have desperately needed heavy weapons, especially deeper strike weapons that can do what their aircraft cannot - more safely take out artillery batteries, disrupt supply lines, and blast staging areas and command n' control centers. They have been asking for these weapons since the last week of February, and while its been clear to the expert public that they were needed and issue warnings that the present situation was inevitable without them - key decision makers failed to heed their advice.

5) So the opportunity for a clear Ukrainian pushback of eastern and southern fronts evaporated in 3 plus months of allied dithering and penny pack deliverance of token numbers of critical heavy weapons. The fight is now merely to stop the Russian advance and gain some kind of significant advantage to force negotiations on Putin.

6) Without forcing that advantage, the Russians know Ukriane will run out of ammo for its soviet made weapons, and won't negotiate or stop until they have a reason... UNLESS we provide a reason soon: shipping large numbers of decisive weapons that repeats the disaster of Russia's advance on Kiev.

There are now two pivotal weapon systems and ordinance that can accomplish that: Himars and NASAMS. Nasams can provide excellent short and medium range protection, mainly from aircraft and cruise missiles (not so much ballistic missiles). HIMARS can strike at least 43 miles deep, sufficiently out of range of Russian artillery to protect them.

The delivery of 60 Himars would end this Russian advantage and change the 2022 fate of Ukraine.

Naturally, we have not the courage or good sense to do so.
Those are valid points and because of word count I'll need to limit my response which is fine. I focus on backdrop and aspects of the general strategic situation to include into the fall season.

Putin and Ukraine well know that when the Kremlin says it has until October to complete Putin's "Special Operation" it's because the autumn rains will create the semiannual arrival of the infamous General Mudd -- who also visits each spring. Only the best paved roads will be available. Operations by each side necessarily will be restricted, limited, minimal.

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By January the arrival of Gen. Snowe will offer new opportunities. He is always accompanied by his alter ego Gen. Hard B. Ice. Movements of troops is better yet not guaranteed given snowfalls and, yes, another compatriot Gen. Blizzard. Gen. Chaos is known to appear during such conditions.

It's still hot at the beach and especially so in Donbas, so not much is being said about the Russians talking about October as a significant month. Yet Washington and NATO seem to have the attitude that Ukraine can hold out until then on scarce but critically needed NATO and chiefly US long range missiles and breach loading artillery.

Russian trolls have posted about 4th quarter but NATO and Washington remain silent on timeframes, trends on the battlefields and the critical measurements we had seen so much of as they continue to be taken over these summer months, into September. The vast reporting true or false is on the daily slogging yard by meter rather than on a strategic path forward. Yes, Ukraine must have US missile and artillery weaponry but even then we may have to wait for our October Surprise.
 
2 of the 4 HIMARS that Ukraine has, have been destroyed by Russia. Time to start draining the West for more and more.


LOL That was fast. Zelensky will be yelling for more in the next few days.
 
Why is Ukraine's word on this better than Russia's word. Ukraine tells CNN something and you say that is another source. It isn't. Russia's word has been much more accurate than the crap coming from Ukraine.


I recall a famous "Ghost of Kyiv". No one questioned Kyiv's word
 
I recall a famous "Ghost of Kyiv". No one questioned Kyiv's word
Hey, just because he did not really exist does not mean that we should not remember and honor the idea of this Ukrainian hero.
 
"Never leave an enemy behind or it will rise again to fly at your throat! There's no other way!", Shaka Zulu. Putin will be wise to heed the words of Shaka.
You guyz don't know either of what's shaping up in the minds of the masters of the universe.

Putin may want to talk in the autumn yet I should think he knows there would be nothing to agree on much less talk about.

Each side may simply take a few months to regroup.
 
The more he attacks for more territory, the more he will lose infantry and conscripts in those attacks. And then there will be a time when he will have to stop attacking because he will need those infantries to protect territory gain, and he will have less troops to fortify. Stopping earlier would give him some extra troops time to recharge and to rotate, like he did in Kiev and in Sumy/kharkiv, or ik Kherson. So every front in which putin decides to keep attack is a long term win for the ukranians.
There is no way fortifying would increase russian losses, he can keep using artillery to protect those flanks, the fact is that for long term non-rotating tired units will be costly for a long war.
Russia is regularly rotating units and their rate of loss is far below Ukraine’s. Ukraine is the country that can’t rotate units and afford losses
 
You guyz don't know either of what's shaping up in the minds of the masters of the universe.
Putin may want to talk in the autumn yet I should think he knows there would be nothing to agree on much less talk about.
Each side may simply take a few months to regroup.


It will come to an end at some point. Both sides are still full of fight, nothing can be done about that. But at some point fatigue will send in. Then both sides will be ready to sit down to talk. By both sides I mean Nato/Eu and Russia
 
Russia is regularly rotating units and their rate of loss is far below Ukraine’s. Ukraine is the country that can’t rotate units and afford losses


That is something never mentioned in the press. Russia is regularly rotating units while Ukraine is not. And it may explain the increased pace of Russian advances. The Ukrainian units are getting worn down.
 
I recall a famous "Ghost of Kyiv". No one questioned Kyiv's word
In WW2 in the surprise Battle of the Bulge the surrounded US General commander of the 101st Airborne Division "Battered Bastards of Bastone" read the communique to surrender from the German general who had 26 German divisions behind him.

"**** You!" he scribbled.

American family media reported his reply as, "Nuts."

That was in 1944 and forever more.

So too is the Ukraine commander's response "Russian ship, go **** yourself" stuck in the Russian craw forever. It's plain to see.
 
So too is the Ukraine commander's response "Russian ship, go **** yourself" stuck in the Russian craw forever. It's plain to see.
Haha! They were said to have been killed. All 13 of them. Remember them.. oppps! They were captured. Now its "Remember the 13 captured Ukrainians."
 
It will come to an end at some point. Both sides are still full of fight, nothing can be done about that. But at some point fatigue will send in. Then both sides will be ready to sit down to talk. By both sides I mean Nato/Eu and Russia
The EU is already showing it's hand.

 
In WW2 in the surprise Battle of the Bulge the surrounded US General commander of the 101st Airborne Division "Battered Bastards of Bastone" read the communique to surrender from the German general who had 26 German divisions behind him.

"**** You!" he scribbled.

American family media reported his reply as, "Nuts."

That was in 1944 and forever more.

So too is the Ukraine commander's response "Russian ship, go **** yourself" stuck in the Russian craw forever. It's plain to see.
The difference is, in 1944 America was winning the war in Germany was losing. General McAuliffe knew that if he held out he would get reinforced, that is not the case with Ukraine.
 
Haha! They were said to have been killed. All 13 of them. Remember them.. oppps! They were captured. Now its "Remember the 13 captured Ukrainians."

Russia said it wouldn't invade Ukraine. I remember Russian officials mocking everyone who expressed concern.

And the same people who now ridicule Ukraine for not already surrendering are the same people who mocked everyone for suggesting a Russian invasion was imminent.

But, here we are.
 
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Russia is regularly rotating units and their rate of loss is far below Ukraine’s. Ukraine is the country that can’t rotate units and afford losses

1. You have no idea what Russia's rate of loss is.

2. Ukraine is fully committed to winning its freedom. The same is not true for Russia. Russia is having difficulty recruiting people to fight.
 
Haha! They were said to have been killed. All 13 of them. Remember them.. oppps! They were captured. Now its "Remember the 13 captured Ukrainians."
Remember The Alamo!

Remember Pearl Harbor!

Remember 9/11!

Imperative. It grabs you.

Meanwhile and as I'd said, "Russian ship, go **** yourself" is unforgettable. It is in fact stuck in the Russian craw forever as we are seeing among the PutinRowers choke choke.

Captured combatants are neither seen nor heard. Ukraine people in their Russian created woes want them not to be overlooked or forgotten. It's a shared hardship PutinRowers are oblivious to as they vigorously support bombing women and children, hospitals and schools....and so on. This is not academic or on paper as you would have it.
 
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