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[W:#23,579]Ukraine War Thread

 
Chomsky said:
Somehow I can't help but think the RU theory of throwing the newly mobilized to the front to cover the professional soldiers retreat, was such a swift idea.
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No, those are the best troops Russia has. No recruits, professionals.
Its the command and communication structure, which has been a problem through out of this war and it looks like this has collapsed in this operation.
Somebody gave the order for retreat, run, without coordinating with the rest. As I said its a chain, if one link brakes, the chain will unravel.
A operation like this is extremely difficult and depends on a very rigid and controlled command structure. In an offensive you would like a more structure, so opportunities can be taken, but here you have to manage it like a clock work.
 
Chomsky said:
Well, I'm getting a real education here. It's starting to look like retreats can be even more difficult to successfully orchestrate than attacks!
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Far more difficult, and here's why: You have to have a rearguard when you retreat, so the enemy doesn't roll right up your ass. If the rearguard breaks, and it has, then they pile into the people behind them, which obviously breeds panic. Nobody wants to be the last guy in line with a pile of vengeful Ukrainians behind you. Pretty soon the roads clog up with vehicles, to the point where units cannot even move as coherent groups on foot. Then it's devil take the hindmost.

In an attack, usually the worst thing that happens is you take no ground for your casualties. In a proper rout, you lose all your ground, and your troops get pounded into paste when they do the LA freeway thing on only two roads.

The quick ones get the reward of piling up on the bridgeheads or ferry ports, and then they get to meet Mr HIMARS.

A properly conducted retreat usually means alternating units retreating to nearby secondary positions, leapfrogging backwards. That was indeed the plan, they even had the positions dug. But panic started, because the troops have no confidence in their officers and no real NCO corps and now the Russians are going to wish they'd followed Rudyard Kipling's advice.
 
Schrott said:
No, those are the best troops Russia has. No recruits, professionals.
Its the command and communication structure, which has been a problem through out of this war and it looks like this has collapsed in this operation.
Somebody gave the order for retreat, run, without coordinating with the rest. As I said its a chain, if one link brakes, the chain will unravel.
A operation like this is extremely difficult and depends on a very rigid and controlled command structure. In an offensive you would like a more structure, so opportunities can be taken, but here you have to manage it like a clock work.
Click to expand...

This is why you gotta have a proper career NCO corps.

And yeah, individual initiative is your friend on attacks, and your murderer on retreats.
 
Chomsky said:
I'm interested in that source.

Is it free & available to the general public. Do you have a link?
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It's free, but it might require an invitation, at least that is how I joined. It's the "defenders dome" and started by OSINT Defender. "Lena" is one of the mods (really a super mod). Perhaps this link will help...

discord.com

Discord - A New Way to Chat with Friends & Communities

Discord is the easiest way to communicate over voice, video, and text. Chat, hang out, and stay close with your friends and communities.
discord.com discord.com
 
 
 
Key Takeaways


  • Ukrainian forces steadily advanced in Kherson Oblast on November 10 as Russian forces conduct a withdrawal to the east (left) bank of the Dnipro River.
  • The Russian withdrawal will take some time to complete, and fighting will continue throughout Kherson Oblast as Ukrainian troops advance and come up against pre-prepared Russian defensive lines, especially around Kherson City.
  • ISW does not assess the fighting in Ukraine will halt or enter a stalemate due to winter weather, despite faulty Western assumptions.
  • Ukraine holds the initiative and is in the process of securing a major victory in Kherson. A ceasefire would provide the Kremlin with the pause it desperately needs to reconstitute Russian forces.
  • Wagner Group financier Yevgeniy Prigozhin is increasingly wrestling with St. Petersburg officials over expanding Wagner Group recruitment in the city.
  • Ukrainian Air Force Command spokesperson Yuriy Ignat stated that Russian force will likely slow the pace of their campaign against Ukrainian infrastructure.
  • Ukrainian forces continued to conduct counteroffensive operations on the Svatove-Kreminna line.
  • Russian forces continued offensive operations near Bakhmut, Avdiivka, and in western Donetsk.
  • Russian forces began constructing second line fortifications in Crimea and southern Ukraine.
  • Russian citizens continue to oppose Russia’s war in Ukraine through protest, social media dissent, and desertions from the military.
  • Russian mobilization efforts are channeling personnel to the Wagner group.
  • Russian occupation officials are continuing efforts to erode Ukrainian national identity while mobilizing residents in Russian-occupied territories.
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Institute for the Study of War

Ukrainian forces steadily advanced in Kherson Oblast on November 10 as Russian forces conduct a withdrawal to the east (left) bank of the Dnipro River. Ukrainian military officials and geolocated social media footage confirm that Ukrainian troops have
www.understandingwar.org www.understandingwar.org
 
Turning into a right proper mess for Russia
 
Chomsky said:
Somehow I can't help but think the RU theory of throwing the newly mobilized to the front to cover the professional soldiers retreat, was such a swift idea.
Click to expand...
It was desperation.
 
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