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[W:1539] NY Grand Jury votes to indict Donad Trump

Can we envision 250 years into the future knowing how fast the future can change? We can have a talking dog for president who is being fed answer thru ChatGPT.
And who would've thought the country would be having to weigh in on LGBTQ, transgender, and CRT ideologies?
The author Francis Fukuyama loosely anticipated some of this in his nineties bestseller THE END OF HISTORY AND THE LAST MAN. I'd have to look up the exact phrasing, and it was just a side-point to his main theme, but he claimed that the modern U.S. had inculcated a sort of "emancipation ethic" with respect to all marginalized peoples. To be sure, he didn't foresee that the alleged ethic would someday advance into so many pernicious new forms.
 
Good points.
But doesn't it always boil down it whether someone's acts were more egregious than the other guy's?
Who was worse? Trump with his hundreds of documents or the other guys' who only had a few documents?

There's possibly more going on with Trump's case in the way he addressed it and the manner of recovery.

But the point is: I believe the politics of prosecuting one, but not all, may be difficult.
 
You're the one claiming that Trump "will be forced to speak under threat of perjury." How exactly do you imagine that's going to work?
Yikes. So you're serious. You think we can strap him down and manipulate his mouth while pumping his chest.

Nah, I don't think we have that technology yet. But you're welcome to offer cites. I'll look at them.
 
speech impediment? If you can't see his problem is dementia and not a speech impediment ....
Only rightwing tribalists see it as dementia.

He's smarter than you. I'm sorry, but he just is.
 
Yikes. So you're serious. You think we can strap him down and manipulate his mouth while pumping his chest.

Nah, I don't think we have that technology yet. But you're welcome to offer cites. I'll look at them.

Predictable deflection to cover up your misspeaking. Libs do this all the time, and then they assail conservatives for every alleged bad choice of words. Pretty pathetic.
 
Yes, I know more people believe the charges are legit.
And I hope people believe that after all of the charges are made public. I want Trump to be so tied up in legal problems that his supporters start wondering if it is really worth voting for Trump the criminal and the scofflaw.
And if the charges turn out to be pitifully weak, will you admit the DEmocrats and the Washington establishment are simply out to stop Trump from coming back into power? No matter what the means or the cost?
 
You are aware that poverty & drug addiction has become the domain of rural areas? And rural death rates eclipse that of cities?

Modern-day rural America is not Andy Taylor's Mayberry RFD. Stats don't lie.



Where do you think those large corporations are located?
Yes, I am aware of those changes in demography. That's why we never venture into shitholes like Portland, Seattle, and San Francisco.
And Mayberry FRD was a nice fantasy for those who dream about living in a place where everyone loves each other.
 
I think Trumps inability to make complete sentences is more than just dementia
The debates this time around will be fun. Assuming your party's masters haven't put Biden out to pasture by then
 
And if the charges turn out to be pitifully weak, will you admit the DEmocrats and the Washington establishment are simply out to stop Trump from coming back into power? No matter what the means or the cost?
I'd bet large bucks that the chargers are not pitifully weak.

When we see that they're strong, will you finally admit that this is no political witch hunt?
 
The debates this time around will be fun.
If Trump's in it, he'll make a bigger fool of himself than the last times.

Biden so easily triggers him. Plays him like a fiddle. It's embarrassing.
 
By being told that when it works against their preferred politicians, it's "weaponizing the government". The obvious problem here is one of throwing away the possibility of holding the political elite to account, since it's a cheap and easy excuse that diverts away from the merits of cases brought. Looking at this one, you have prominent GOP politicians reacting not to the charges or the merits of the case, but at just the idea of holding a former president accountable.

The question on my mind is whether Bragg has solid ground and is baiting exactly this kind of response given the amount of time between the announcement and when Trump is expected to turn himself in, or if he's made a big mistake. I'll assume he's didn't take all of this on without anticipating the obvious pitfalls, but will reserve judgement until we know what the charges are and the case he's making.
There have been positives and negatives in this entire affair. The previous DA left unfinished business on his way out. Bragg initially punted and had the resulting turmoil among his staff. Then the GJ was reseated, (or another was empaneled.) There were rumors of an imminent indictment and the target tried to snatch the narrative by declaring the date of his arrest. The date came and went and there were conflicting rumors about the schedule of th GJ. Then the Trump team, (and others,) were put to sleep by stating that the GJ was done until sometime after Easter. The target praised the GJ. BOOM! The indictment announcement falls on a Thursday PM. The DA says he wants the target to be arraigned the following day, team Trump blames the USSS. USSS says they can move on short notice. IMO, there was too much time between announcement and arraignment. Can only hope that with all the build-up, there is a substantial case to be made or this will further weaken any cases yet to be called.
 
And if the charges turn out to be pitifully weak, will you admit the DEmocrats and the Washington establishment are simply out to stop Trump from coming back into power? No matter what the means or the cost?
Well, if Democrats believe that Biden can beat Trump in 2024, then why wouldn't they use these indictments to incite Trump supporters to stick with him so he becomes the nominee in 2024.
If it's not Trump running against Biden, then there is less of a chance that Biden can win.
 
I owned a home care company for about 10 years, which is why I became a dementia trainer. I certainly spent a lot of time with people afflicted with it at various stages.

Having had the training in it, it made that experience quite enriching. Dementia is a symptom of some 50 different diseases or afflictions (like stroke or being an alcoholic). Dementia is not a function of age. It is ageist to think that dementia comes with age, though those with a proclivity to dementia will generally see it come later in life. Interesting, however, that they are discovering onset of Alzheimer's in younger and younger people (even in their 30s and 40s)

Too many people, including senior care professionals, want to bring those with dementia into reality, which is actually the wrong way to go. You simply can not do that (kind of trying to convince someone that gets their news from ZeroHedge that Trump lost... you just tick them off.) Someone afflcted with dementia may not remember your name, they will always remember how you make them feel. If you argue with them, you are not going to leave them feeling positively about them, and that is one thing they will remember the next time they see you.

As I am from Colorado, I would use the whitewater analogy..... when you interact with someone with moderate to advanced dementia, they are white water, but you have a paddle. If you know how to use your paddle, you can master the river and get where you want. You just can't paddle upstream or just cross the river, so you go with the flow, but steer your boat. Dementia typically affects short-term memory with long-term memories often quite lucid, particularly if you use a little music. I learned to really enjoy being around people with dementia. Many had some great stories that they loved sharing for those with the patience to listen, which of course played into the concept of they remember how you make them feel.

My training came into great personal use when my mom became afflicted. In spite of the training, it still was very hard, because it was my mom (like your dad). I am in my 60s' but two of my best friends are in their 70's. Each is on the regression train with early stage dementia. Again, my training has been helpful here. Anyway, I am sorry that you experienced this with dad. It is a very hard thing to experience with a loved one. It is often called 'the long goodbye.' I am sure you can relate to that phrase.

I have not seen any outward signs of Biden dementia. What he has accomplished in 2+ years in the White House, particularly with NATO and Ukraine tells me his mind is quite sharp. That doesn't mean there isn't any cognitive slowing. He could be an early stage of dementia, we don't know, but he is highly functioning, so its moot. Only 22% of people 85 and older have dementia, with instances of dementia much lower in college graduates and whites. Hence is chances of actually having dementia are quite low. What people are seeing is his natural speech impediment that is likely exaggerated by cognitive slowing (and Fox), which is not dementia. Biden's mental health remains superior to that the TFG, who has quite a set of impairment from other causes.

I cared for my mother first and now my dad. Both had dementia and my dad is beginning to show signs of Parkinson's. But also being a teacher, I saw a breakdown in their use of language. Biden speaks in complete sentences with intervening phrases and dependent clauses , he's capable of complicated grammar and the proof is seen when he answers reporters' questions without a script.

Biden always has been goofy, and as clumsy as Gerald Ford, and I wish Chevy Chase was still out and about to do his famous impersonations. He has a rye sense of humor, with shades of LBJ arm twisting and other times finesse. Gaffes once a week or so -same guy he always was.

The main thing I see in the FOX version of reality is that he isn't a bombastic self-consumed , arrogant loudmouth carp. They can't accept the idea of diplomacy or compromise. They prefer the demonization of Dems and Biden and this is absurd.
 
There's possibly more going on with Trump's case in the way he addressed it and the manner of recovery.

But the point is: I believe the politics of prosecuting one, but not all, may be difficult.
To me, it hinges on whether Bragg is successful and whether the next indictments really paint Trump as a potential loser.
 
Well, if Democrats believe that Biden can beat Trump in 2024, then why wouldn't they use these indictments to incite Trump supporters to stick with him so he becomes the nominee in 2024.
If it's not Trump running against Biden, then there is less of a chance that Biden can win.
FFS, Trump has Jeb Bush carrying water for him, now. Who do you think the GOP nominee will be, if not Trump?
 
Good for you. That means you don’t approve of what Trump has done for most of his adult life.
Nonsensical slogan - your LW masters will be proud.
 
I don't share your view that the American justice system is deeply corrupt.

Kinda corrupt? Yeah, maybe. But I think jurors take their jobs pretty seriously. So do most judges.
Fine, you have a right to your opinion.
 
Think about what republicans, many who are Christians, have forced our country to do by electing a well-known crook who has no morals.


They have forced decent people to act and investigate the crimes, thus putting themselves and their families in jeopardy, because he has so blatantly broke our laws and dared people to investigate and prosecute him.


If anyone gets killed in the name of trump, it's on the base.
 
DeSantis, of course. Who else is more popular?

Trump is more popular than DeSantis by 31 points. Conservatives don't want Trump Lite when they can have Trump Classic.

 
Well, if Democrats believe that Biden can beat Trump in 2024, then why wouldn't they use these indictments to incite Trump supporters to stick with him so he becomes the nominee in 2024.
If it's not Trump running against Biden, then there is less of a chance that Biden can win.
It's become more clear everyday that they understand Biden cannot win in 2024. 60% of Democrats want to to fade away.
 
because Bragg downgraded felony charges in many cases

Youn talk like this is the first case against Trump in NY even though there is a long history of his corrupt business deals in that state, from Trump University to the way his family ran the charities. Perhaps it does not cross your mind that the legal system has been repeatedly too kind to Trump. Other than that, we are supposed to believe that MAGA is about draining the swamp and go after the powerful and the establishment but god forbid if at some point a corrupt powerful and wealthy individual is finally held accountable for his actions.
 
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