[W:148] Affirmative Action promotes systemic racial discrimination.

[LessBiased?]

No, every one reading gets that you think you can simply repeat your baseless opinions enough times, and they will somehow become fact. We are on page 106 now. I can keep reminding you that your baseless opinions, will not become fact, for as many pages as you'd like.

You have a lot more patience than me. I gave up on him. He can't properly interpret the studies he himself cites. Pretty much the worst advocate for AA I can imagine.

 

[jaeger19]

No, every one reading gets that you think you can simply repeat your baseless opinions enough times, and they will somehow become fact. We are on page 106 now. I can keep reminding you that your baseless opinions, will not become fact, for as many pages as you'd like.

Lmao.
I think everyone here sees the irony.
I have provided reams of objective evidence of racial inequity..and bias.
And you have provided...well nothing but a repeated..." nuh uh".
Kinda the debate forums equivalent of Monty pythons " it's just a flesh wound"..
Some more for your edification

Timeline: Black farmers and the USDA

Timeline: Black farmers and the USDA, 1920 to present

www.ewg.org

 

[jaeger19]

You have a lot more patience than me. I gave up on him. He can't properly interpret the studies he himself cites. Pretty much the worst advocate for AA I can imagine.

Why sir..you are free to provide where I miss interpreted the studies as did the experts that cited them as evidence.
And I have invited you to provide your own research to rebut the evidence I have provided.

Sadly however..so far you have been unable to come up with any rebuttal better than rahls here. Of " nuh uh"
But please let's see what you have.

 

[jaeger19]

and I will still fall out of my chair laughing if you claim they are disadvantaged lol.

you think obamas children are disadvantaged compared to someone in the same class?

Studies show they are.
Do you contend there are no racists in America that think black folks are inferior?

 

[TurtleDude]

Studies show yes..economic social situations being equal..blacks have a disadvantage.
I posted some evidence for you.

don't care=people have to be judged as individuals. rich black kids often get affirmative action ahead of middle class Asian and white kids

 

[TurtleDude]

Studies show they are.
Do you contend there are no racists in America that think black folks are inferior?

people who think upper middle class blacks need affirmative action to compete with middle class white and Asian kids obviously think blacks are inferior

 

[jaeger19]

people who think upper middle class blacks need affirmative action to compete with middle class white and Asian kids obviously think blacks are inferior

Yeah no. Dude you are just floundering around now.

 

[TurtleDude]

Yeah no. Dude you are just floundering around now.

that's funny given that fact that you have been failing massively in this thread. You support racial discrimination and you cannot justify why individual whites and Asians should pay for what you claim is some massive problem facing ALL blacks. You clearly buy into the bullshit idea of group debt and racial sin

 

[jaeger19]

don't care=people have to be judged as individuals. rich black kids often get affirmative action ahead of middle class Asian and white kids

Except reality is that they aren't.. as my citations show.
So..you live in fantasy land

that's funny given that fact that you have been failing massively in this thread. You support racial discrimination and you cannot justify why individual whites and Asians should pay for what you claim is some massive problem facing ALL blacks. You clearly buy into the bullshit idea of group debt and racial sin

Look.. I have been crushing it. It's all backed up by history research and logic. I get that it makes you mad..but just accept reality.
There is no " group guilt " ot " racial sin" ..simply a verifiable history of systemic and institutionalized racism in America.
I clearly linked to multiple objective research studies detailing it.
You are welcome to present your research that refutes all the research and history I have presented.
But TurtleDude? We know you can't.

 

[TurtleDude]

Except reality is that they aren't.. as my citations show.
So..you live in fantasy land
Look.. I have been crushing it. It's all backed up by history research and logic. I get that it makes you mad..but just accept reality.
There is no " group guilt " ot " racial sin" ..simply a verifiable history of systemic and institutionalized racism in America.
I clearly linked to multiple objective research studies detailing it.
You are welcome to present your research that refutes all the research and history I have presented.
But TurtleDude? We know you can't.

your citations don't prove squat. I have proven that when affirmative action was done away with-far more asians and whites attended the top public schools in California, meaning that blacks with inferior scores were displacing more objectively meritorious whites and Asians

you assume affirmative racial discrimination is a valid way to make up for past sins

you never explain why those who are victimized by this discrimination are properly victimized
you never even prove that those who benefit from it deserve it

 

[rahl]

Lmao.
I think everyone here sees the irony.
I have provided reams of objective evidence of racial inequity..and bias.

Nope. You've provided evidence of racial differences in home prices, and in GPA scores. What you haven't done, is been able to show "RACISM" was the causal effect.

And you have provided...well nothing but a repeated..." nuh uh".

lol, no. I've picked apart all the irrelevant opinions you've provided, and pointed out the only 2 actual attempts at evidence you provided regarding the topic we are discussing, DO NOT MENTION RACISM ANYWHERE in their findings.

Kinda the debate forums equivalent of Monty pythons " it's just a flesh wound"..
Some more for your edification

Timeline: Black farmers and the USDA

Timeline: Black farmers and the USDA, 1920 to present

www.ewg.org

It's hilarious that you keep proving my point, and it's also hilarious that you keep deflecting to topics we aren't discussing.

 

[rahl]

Studies show they are.

Do you contend there are no racists in America that think black folks are inferior?

do you contend every single black person is disadvantaged? Also, define disadvantaged. If you mean they can't afford to go an Ivy league school, or live in a $400k+ house, then there are tens of millions of disadvantaged WHITES. If you mean disadvantaged as in some made up, unquantifiable metric called "systemic racism" well.................................lol

 

[LessBiased?]

do you contend every single black person is disadvantaged? Also, define disadvantaged. If you mean they can't afford to go an Ivy league school, or live in a $400k+ house, then there are tens of millions of disadvantaged WHITES. If you mean disadvantaged as in some made up, unquantifiable metric called "systemic racism" well.................................lol

I could accept that blacks are disadvantaged in some settings by virtue of being black, even if it’s hard to measure, but then the question is the magnitude of the disadvantage and how hard it is to overcome it. In most settings, I think the disadvantage is relatively small nowadays, and focusing on the presumed disadvantage and magnifying it is counterproductive for all concerned.

One can also argue that blacks these days are advantaged in many settings, because people are trying so hard to make sure they’re not disadvantaged and to make up for past wrongs against them and assuage the associated sense of guilt. That sense of guilt is magnified by incidents like George Floyd one. If you watch cable news, commercials, etc., you’ll see more than 13% black representation. And we certainly see that the bar is being lowered for blacks to get into colleges and professional schools, at the expense of others who are more qualified.

Hardly anyone dares to suggest that blacks might be partly responsible for their problems, and for fixing them, because that’s claimed to be ‘blaming the victim’ and not politically correct.

 

[jaeger19]

do you contend every single black person is disadvantaged? Also, define disadvantaged. If you mean they can't afford to go an Ivy league school, or live in a $400k+ house, then there are tens of millions of disadvantaged WHITES. If you mean disadvantaged as in some made up, unquantifiable metric called "systemic racism" well.................................lol

A studies show..when you compare blacks and whites with similar economic situations.
Blacks are more likely to get higher loan rates fees etc.
When black people have similar economic and other circumstances around crime as whites they are more likely to get convicted a longer sentence and less leniency.
When a black person and a white person have a similar resume ..the black person is less likely to get a call back.

 

[jaeger19]

I could accept that blacks are disadvantaged in some settings by virtue of being black, even if it’s hard to measure, but then the question is the magnitude of the disadvantage and how hard it is to overcome it. In most settings, I think the disadvantage is relatively small nowadays, and focusing on the presumed disadvantage and magnifying it is counterproductive for all concerned.

One can also argue that blacks these days are advantaged in many settings, because people are trying so hard to make sure they’re not disadvantaged and to make up for past wrongs against them and assuage the associated sense of guilt. That sense of guilt is magnified by incidents like George Floyd one. If you watch cable news, commercials, etc., you’ll see more than 13% black representation. And we certainly see that the bar is being lowered for blacks to get into colleges and professional schools, at the expense of others who are more qualified.

Hardly anyone dares to suggest that blacks might be partly responsible for their problems, and for fixing them, because that’s claimed to be ‘blaming the victim’ and not politically correct.

Yeah pretty hard to support your arguments when studies show that when white and black people have similar circumstances..the black person has a disadvantage.
Pretty much much negates the " but but it's their choices theory.."
And "but but they have more advantage. "

 

[jaeger19]

Nope. You've provided evidence of racial differences in home prices, and in GPA scores. What you haven't done, is been able to show "RACISM" was the causal effect.

lol, no. I've picked apart all the irrelevant opinions you've provided, and pointed out the only 2 actual attempts at evidence you provided regarding the topic we are discussing, DO NOT MENTION RACISM ANYWHERE in their findings.

It's hilarious that you keep proving my point, and it's also hilarious that you keep deflecting to topics we aren't discussing.

Nah ..you just are being blown away with the ream of facts i provide.
Can't make the connection between farming and GPA huh?
So sad.

 

[jaeger19]

your citations don't prove squat. I have proven that when affirmative action was done away with-far more asians and whites attended the top public schools in California, meaning that blacks with inferior scores were displacing more objectively meritorious whites and Asians

you assume affirmative racial discrimination is a valid way to make up for past sins

you never explain why those who are victimized by this discrimination are properly victimized
you never even prove that those who benefit from it deserve it

Nah.. my citations prove that for most minorities it's not a level playing field.
So of course when you remove aa..which is to help level that playing field..
Well then duh...
You get more whites.

 

[rahl]

A studies show..when you compare blacks and whites with similar economic situations.

lol, no

Blacks are more likely to get higher loan rates fees etc.

No they aren't.

When black people have similar economic and other circumstances around crime as whites they are more likely to get convicted a longer sentence and less leniency.

No they aren't.

When a black person and a white person have a similar resume ..the black person is less likely to get a call back.

no they aren't.

 

[rahl]

Nah ..you just are being blown away with the ream of facts i provide.

Lol, no. As I keep pointing out, providing opinion articles and blogs, to support your baseless opinion are not facts. Your only 2 semi relevant attempts to actually support your claims were studies, WHICH DID NOT MENTION RACISM AT ANY POINT.

Can't make the connection between farming and GPA huh?
So sad.

There is no connection, it's why no study you've presented has made it, or even so much as MENTIONED racism. Lol.

It's like you are TRYING to prove my point for me.

 

[post]

don't care=people have to be judged as individuals. rich black kids often get affirmative action ahead of middle class Asian and white kids

You know how this works...

Legacy Admissions - The Impact on Your College Application

This blog contains statistics on legacy admissions. We discuss legacy applicants in 2022-23 who have familial ties to a given school.

www.collegetransitions.com

Princeton, with its minuscule 3.98% admissions rate (Class of 2025), has been known to admit over 30% of legacy candidates. Even elite public universities such as the University of Michigan and the University of Virginia grant favor to legacy applicants. Jan 31, 2022

Here! Here! I see a drinking game in the making.... every time a white offender receives a sentence of probation and a black
offender of similar prior record and charged similarly is sentenced to do prison time, take a drink!

https://justicepolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/justicepolicy/documents/05-02_rep_txraceimprisonment_ac-rd.pdf

"...to the DOJ report Prisoners in 2003, in 2003 African American, men across the nation were incarcerated seven times the rate of Whites while Latinos were incarcerated at 2.6 times the rate of Whites. African Americans and Latinos comprised 68% of all people in prison and jail in 2003, even though ..make up 25% of the US population. 2

In August 2003, the Bureau of Justice Statistics reported that if incarceration rates continue at these levels, one in 17 White men (5.9%), one in six Latino men (17%), and one in three African American men (32%) born in 2001 will serve time in prison at some point ..5.6 million Americans are current or former prisoners; 39% of those are African Americans (2,203,000), even though African Americans comprise only 12% of the national population. 3 Also, the Justice Policy Institute reported that 1 of 8 White male dropouts, and half of all African American male dropouts had prison records by their early thirties, and that nearly twice as many African American men in their early 30s have prison records (22 %) as Bachelors degrees (12 %). 4

..these ..disparities hold true for Texas as well. .. In 1999, a drug sting operation in .. Tulia, Texas resulted in the arrest of 46 people, 40 of whom were black. The remaining six individuals were either Latinos or whites dating blacks. The arrests incarcerated almost 15% of the black population, .. These controversies have spurred on policy reforms which have been debated locally and in Austin on how to make the justice system fairer and more just: .. in June, 2003, ..Gov. Rick Perry signed a (bill unanimously approved by the Texas House of Representatives) allowing the 13 remaining inmates to be freed on bond. Since then, the Tulia defendants settled a civil suit ..

The complicity of Sen. John Cornyn and Rep. Michael McCaul ...
https://texassignal.com ›
Jul 9, 2020 — in Tulia, Texas, ..Black male residents were arrested.

John Cornyn Blocks Vanita Gupta Nomination ... - ​

https://www.esquire.com ›
Mar 26, 2021 — John Cornyn May Be Rehashing a Decades-Old Beef While Blocking a Biden Nominee. Vanita Gupta embarrassed Cornyn in Texas—well, he embarrassed ...

..Shreds John Cornyn for Blocking ... ​

https://www.mediaite.com › TV
Mar 24, 2021 — ..blocking top DOJ nominee with reminder of their connection to stunning Tulia case involving 'cartoonishly evil' TX cop.

Texas undercover copconvicted of perjury - NBC News​

https://www.nbcnews.com ›
Jan 14, 2005 — The lone undercover agent in a sting that sent dozens of black people to prison on bogus drug charges in Tulia was convicted Friday of one ...

 

[post]

Nah.. my citations prove that for most minorities it's not a level playing field.
So of course when you remove aa..which is to help level that playing field..
Well then duh...
You get more whites.

Nothing compares to "the old (white) boy" network.

New study finds white male minority rule dominates US | TheHill​

https://thehill.com › respect › diversity-inclusion › 555...
May 26, 2021 — "As the United States continues to diversify, many populations remain underrepresented in politics and government. A new study found that ...

• A new study found that white men hold 62 percent of all elected offices despite being just 30 percent of the population.
• Much of the disparity is a result of the incumbency advantage and partisan demographic divide, according to the analysis. .."

And who is the cause of "partisan demographic divide".?

Why It's So Hard For Trump To Give Up His Birther Crusade​

https://www.buzzfeednews.com › never-can-say-goodbye
Sep 16, 2016 — "Yet, even now, 52 days from a presidential election that he could conceivably win, the Republican nominee can't quite bring himself to fully let ..."

Fox News Mentioned 'Critical Race Theory' 1300 Times​

since March, according to watchdog study​

https://www.businessinsider.com › Politics
Jun 15, 2021 — Media Matters for America, a left-leaning nonprofit, tracked the buzzword on Fox News going back to last June.

Parents who opposed critical race theory on Fox News are ...​

https://www.nbcnews.com › media › parents-opposed-c...
Jun 17, 2021 — The liberal watchdog group Media Matters detailed how 11 guests promoted as concerned parents are also involved in conservative politics.


Only 500 of these positions are available, white males make up < 30 percent of the U.S. population. If not for their dominance resulting
from entrenchment, (networking, institutionalized discrimination, racism, misogyny ) white males would be expected to occupy 150 to perhaps 200 of these CEO positions....

Commentary: An inclusion revolution in leadership will transform how we do business | Fortune

CEOs must meet this moment by closing gender and race gaps in C-suites and boardrooms. Here's how companies can make their commitments concrete.

fortune.com

April 28, 2021
How many Fortune 500 CEOs are white?
"Nearly 90% of Fortune 500 CEOs are white men, a staggering figure. Only one is a Black woman (though there will be a second when Thasunda Brown Duckett becomes CEO of TIAA on May 1). Globally, women occupy a mere one in five seats in the boardroom..."

An end to legacy admissions? Princeton should follow Amherst College’s lead

“Ending legacy preferences is a significant commitment to expanding access and equity, and Princeton and other schools should follow suit.”

www.dailyprincetonian.com

November 14, 2021
"..Princeton has as great a need to abandon legacy admissions as Amherst did. At Amherst, legacy students comprise about 11 percent of each class. In Princeton’s Class of 2025, 10 percent of students are legacies, a decline from the Class of 2024’s 11.3 percent. That means more students in the Class of 2025 are legacies than are Black — eight percent are Black.

Take the Class of 2022’s admission cycle for example, for which there is more comprehensive data available. Of the 35,370 applicants, two percent were children of alumni. Nearly a third of those legacy students were admitted, compared with an overall admission rate of 5.5 percent. 14.3 percent of the resulting Class of 2022 are legacy students. The admission rate for students of color was 6.2 percent. Thus, the benefit granted to legacy students far outstrips any other toe on the scale for other student traits. It is a unique and unearned benefit..."

 

[post]

I could accept that blacks are disadvantaged in some settings by virtue of being black, even if it’s hard to measure, but then the question is the magnitude of the disadvantage and how hard it is to overcome it. In most settings, I think the disadvantage is relatively small nowadays, and focusing on the presumed disadvantage and magnifying it is counterproductive for all concerned.

One can also argue that blacks these days are advantaged in many settings, because people are trying so hard to make sure they’re not disadvantaged and to make up for past wrongs against them and assuage the associated sense of guilt. That sense of guilt is magnified by incidents like George Floyd one. If you watch cable news, commercials, etc., you’ll see more than 13% black representation. And we certainly see that the bar is being lowered for blacks to get into colleges and professional schools, at the expense of others who are more qualified.

Hardly anyone dares to suggest that blacks might be partly responsible for their problems, and for fixing them, because that’s claimed to be ‘blaming the victim’ and not politically correct.

Considering the details presented in my last post, how well do your statements I bolded, stand up? They seem inspired by "white grievance," contrary to the facts displayed in my last post.
You posted, "And we certainly see that the bar is being lowered for blacks to get into colleges and professional schools, at the expense of others who are more qualified."
Since white males occupy nearly 450 of 500 Fortune 500 Corp. CEO positions and 62 percent of U.S. elected offices despite comprising
less than 30 percent of the U.S. population, does their triple (compared to their percent of the population) presence in the Fortune 500 positions and double presence in elected offices indicate a strong likelihood white males hold some of those corporate and elected positions, "..at the expense of others who are more qualified."?

 

[LessBiased?]

Considering the details presented in my last post, how well do your statements I bolded, stand up? They seem inspired by "white grievance," contrary to the facts displayed in my last post.

I've bookmarked your post and will try to find time to read the links. Meanwhile, again, I don't deny that there's racism, and that it may generally be worse for black people. My issue is with the characterization of the extent of racism and what should be done about it. Any simplistic analysis which reaches sweeping conclusions is likely to be erroneous.

 

[jaeger19]

I've bookmarked your post and will try to find time to read the links. Meanwhile, again, I don't deny that there's racism, and that it may generally be worse for black people. My issue is with the characterization of the extent of racism and what should be done about it. Any simplistic analysis which reaches sweeping conclusions is likely to be erroneous.

You mean like a simplistic analysis like "well they have a high percentage of out of wedlock births so that must be the source of racial disparity?:

You mean like that?

 

[jaeger19]

lol, no

No they aren't.

No they aren't.

no they aren't.

Yep yep and yep

Thats what the studies showed.
But you are welcome to produce your own studies that refute these. or pretty much ANYTHING that supports your narrative of "Nuh uh"..
We won't hold our breath waiting for you to produce evidence though..