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[W:1311]The Second Amendment - A Military Right to Bear Arms

OpportunityCost said:
You can lie to yourself, it's foolish to try to lie to me


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Apparently, your love of over the top hyperbole and the desire to demonize those who disagree with you on this issue causes you to mentally block the difference between YOUR BELIEFS and LIES.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That is pure BS. Advocating for a law saying that a product which is legal to buy, sell or own today will become a crime to buy, sell or own after a certain date is most assuredly taking away rights.
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Nobody has a constitutional right to an AR15. It is NOT protected by the Second Amendment and could be banned if government decided to do that.
 
haymarket said:
I have stated its because I do not want to live in a society where civilians have such weapons. They are simply unnecessary.
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You find them unnecessary and other people's thoughts on the matter be damned. We get that part.
 
haymarket said:
Where were those rights before government?
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If someone was choking the life from you, you need a government to tell you it's okay to try to stop them?
 
haymarket said:
Nobody has a constitutional right to an AR15. It is NOT protected by the Second Amendment and could be banned if government decided to do that.
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Come now. You've already argued that there is indeed a right to an AR15. You just don't like to admit it because your idea of rights is also that they can be taken away by the government at any time.
 
haymarket said:
Nobody has a constitutional right to an AR15. It is NOT protected by the Second Amendment and could be banned if government decided to do that.
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Is the AR15 not a gun now commonly available for legal sale by FFL dealers and in use for lawful purposes? If so then it is protected by the 2A per a prior SCOTUS decision.

Could that change by an act of the US congress or a state legislature? Of course, but such a ban is not likely to withstand a SCOTUS challenge - especially with our current nine robed umpires.
 
RF667799 said:
You find them unnecessary and other people's thoughts on the matter be damned. We get that part.
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Not at all. Other people thoughts on the matter must be discussed in national debate also.
 
RF667799 said:
If someone was choking the life from you, you need a government to tell you it's okay to try to stop them?
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Why would anyone do that? Self defense is a innate drive that all animals have in one way or the other. Humans included.
 
RF667799 said:
Come now. You've already argued that there is indeed a right to an AR15. You just don't like to admit it because your idea of rights is also that they can be taken away by the government at any time.
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Please quote me on that regarding the right to own an AR15. My entire argument is that you do NOT have a constitutional right to it.

Of course rights can be taken away by government. What can be granted can be removed. Thats life regardless if we like it or not.
 
haymarket said:
People without government? Where was that?
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Right here in this nation. People changed their government, and used guns in order to do so, thus we are now the USA and no longer a collection of British colonies ruled from afar.
 
Aberration said:
This was obvious.
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I have over 100,000 posts and am 69 years old. If you can remember everything in other peoples responses in 100,000 posts or what you may have read here - you are a far better person than I am because I simply do not have that ability.

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Right here in this nation. People changed their government, and used guns in order to do so, thus we are now the USA and no longer a collection of British colonies ruled from afar.
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When did they not have government?
 
haymarket said:
Apparently, your love of over the top hyperbole and the desire to demonize those who disagree with you on this issue causes you to mentally block the difference between YOUR BELIEFS and LIES.
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Nonsense you have said over and over that you want to ban semi automatic weapons, that is a violation of my rights.

Keep lying to yourself, you can't lie to me after stating your intent.

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haymarket said:
It is not since it speaks directly to the post I was answering. They claimed a semi-automatic may be necessary since the first shot may have missed or not done the job. So I replied asking if not all or most rifles sold today are capable of firing one round as that would negate the so called necessity of a semi-automatic.
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No it’s doesn’t. It speaks to a point you made up and pretend is directly related. Yes all rifles can fire one round. Without being able to fire one round they would not be a rifle. Or a firearm. I am pretty sure you meant more than one one.

And that very point is what you are fabricating. That is the straw man. It’s not an argument of whether a firearm unrelated to any other variables is capable of firing more than one round. 99% of firearms can fire more than one round. A musket can fire more than one round.

Even if that was the argument, whomever used it is a moron. On both sides.
 
haymarket said:
Why would anyone do that? Self defense is a innate drive that all animals have in one way or the other. Humans included.
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Humans, at least in this nation, have decided that using tools, specifically guns, for self-defense was a right worth protecting - see the 2A.
 
haymarket said:
Why would you claim that? The Second protects nothing about guns other than the right to keep and bear them.
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And no where in the rest of the Constitution is the government granted the power to regulate those unenumerated guns.
 
haymarket said:
Where were those rights before government?
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Retained by individual people without a government to protect them, because if a government didn't try to protect them they were a coercion and not legitimate government of people.

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haymarket said:
Please quote me on that regarding the right to own an AR15. My entire argument is that you do NOT have a constitutional right to it.

Of course rights can be taken away by government. What can be granted can be removed. Thats life regardless if we like it or not.
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If the federal government can ban one type of weapon...they can use a bacon slicer approach and ban one weapon per day until there are not guns you can legally own.
 
haymarket said:
It is not since it speaks directly to the post I was answering. They claimed a semi-automatic may be necessary since the first shot may have missed or not done the job. So I replied asking if not all or most rifles sold today are capable of firing one round as that would negate the so called necessity of a semi-automatic.
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Semi-auto allows for follow-up shots without the need to manually chamber the next round. A breech loading, lever or bolt action rifle does not allow for that.
 
haymarket said:
Why would anyone do that? Self defense is a innate drive that all animals have in one way or the other. Humans included.
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That is correct. And a firearm is the most effective tool a 100lb woman can use to defend herself against a 200lb man.

Why don’t you support woman defending themselves? Why do you hate women? You’re a sexist! Oh she’s a Hispanic woman! You’re a racist and a sexist!
 
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