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[W:1296] PUTIN FEARS COUP Russian tanks in Moscow to ‘secure Kremlin’ as cowering Putin fears Wagner group are launching coup to overthrow him

Ikari said:
Out of Ukraine is necessary, but I do think that a free and democratic Russia would benefit more than just Russia.
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Of course you are correct. I am just disappointed on the Russians support for Putins war in Ukraine....
 
Tigerace117 said:
A single column, without any sort of significant AA, traveling hundreds of miles across mostly open terrain?

Yeah, I wouldn’t bet on them getting anywhere.
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You forget the fact that the Wagner Group is/was the elite military group in Russia. It is 25,000 men and they are led by Yevgeny Prighozin, who was a friend and close ally to Putin in the past. Do not sell them short, especially considering that most of Russia's troops are in Ukraine right now. In addition, Russia had about 200,000 military and about 75,000 of those have died in Ukraine. Putin has even put young and inexperienced people to fight and they are not experienced troops.

Also don't forget that a fair portion of the Russian people are against the war and therefore against Putin. It would not be surprising if the Wagner Group is not welcomed and helped by the Russian citizens themselves.
 
Tigerace117 said:
If Russia collapses there’s nothing to stop some officer from lobbing a couple dozen nukes at Ukraine’s remaining cities……or blowing New York, DC and LA off the map.
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You have an idea of how that officer will get the launch codes perhaps?

Luckyone said:
Wagner Group is/was the elite military group in Russia. It is 25,000 men and
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Wagner has grown, he stockpiled weapons in the last two months and he has bases elsewhere in Russia. There were reports earlier of Wagner in Kaliningrad starting to gather - they are in bases across Russia, usually right next door to elite Spetznaz who they also recruit from.
Earlier this morning, one entire unit swapped loyalty to join Prigozhin.
 
Literally nobody here needs me to tell them that Russia is now in a civil war, but Russia is now in a civil war.

It's just that...goddamn.

 
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PNW Guy said:
I know nothing, but it does make me wonder if there's more going on than we know. Perhaps Wagner has allies within the Kremlin wishing to act against Putin, and to me that's the only plausible sounding situation. Otherwise it would seem this guy and his group just have a death wish.
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I don't think he would have started this without support from key people in Moscow.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Forget Wagner. Wagner can't do anything by itself.

I think that it going to take a few dozen dissenters from inside the Federal Executive Body combined with the citizenry and a handful generals who have any remaining influence left.

The missing link is what is going on in the heads of the Russian people. The older Russian people are a different lot, but the younger ones want normalization with the west.
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True. But they now own Rostov, the Russian military’s primary logistics center. They have the talent and now they have the tools. And Putin just declared all of them traitors. So this reminds me a lot of Hernan Cortez in Mexico after lighting his ships ablaze, giving his men no choice-either we conquer the Aztec Empire victoriously, or we all die horribly. And they conquered. It is amazing what trained killers can accomplish when their backs are against the wall and it is victory or death for them.
 
Ikari said:
Out of Ukraine is necessary, but I do think that a free and democratic Russia would benefit more than just Russia.
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Was Wagner in Ukraine before fighting against Ukraine forces? If so, I would be hesitant that Ukraine will be out of this conflict.
 
Rexedgar said:
Wagner’s boss has been telegraphing a move for weeks, if reports are to be believed.
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No they have not been telegraphing anything like this. This was a total surprise. The Wagner Group had been complaining of the lack of support that had been given to them but no one had been talking about a rebellion.

Prighozin could not have picked a better time to do this than now. A rebellion was an impossibility 2 years ago but now, most of Russia's troops are in Ukraine and many of the Russian people will support this insurrection. That is a recipe for success for the insurrectionists.

Yay, and yay again.
 
NuffSaid said:
Was Wagner in Ukraine before fighting against Ukraine forces? If so, I would be hesitant that Ukraine will be out of this conflict.
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I don't know that answer but could you explain that a bit more, why would their presence in Ukraine before the war be a factor now?
 
Cardinal said:
Literally nobody here needs me to tell them that Russia is now in a civil war, but Russia is now in civil war.

It's just that...goddamn.

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Putin wanted Russia to be Third Rome. Gypsy wish, eh?
 
reinaert said:
Perhaps they don't? This is the nichevo culture, par excellence.
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I remember when I visited St. Petersburg and got my first Russian History For Dummies summary, and I was like, "Goddamn this place sucks." I mean, at least it resulted in amazing art if nothing else.
 
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