[W:1127] Justice Department says classified documents at Mar-a-Lago were likely ‘concealed and removed’ to block investigation

[Chomsky]

You do not understand how things work with people like Trump. The fact that he got away with certain behavior in the past is EXACTLY what drives his constant pursue of expanding the boundaries of his "authority." There is also a narcissistic element in enjoying the power of making people around him ready to legitimize his increasingly absurd behavior. At some point, when you play near the red line, you will step on it.

Bingo!

Personalities like his often lead to narcissistic criminality. Trump seems to have avoided legal penalty due to his money, power, and the aforementioned allowing him to retain legal talent. Heretofore he either had legal-eagles motion technicalities, or barring that he simply bought-off his victims for huge sums of money leading to dropping suits & going under NDA.

 

[Chomsky]

Not only the attorney, but Trump as well.

Depending on the type of copier and what the set up is, if the document was scanned for print or for saving on removable media, the copier may have that in its memory.
I think the FBI should have seized the "computer" and what ever internal server that exist in Trump Org & Mar-a -Lago.
It may well be that some of Trump associates who are overly devoted cultist groomed, may need to be observed or investigated.

________________

I'm not sure if any of you hear the reporters talking about the strange number of human assets that have been killed during the Trump term and after he left office, but investigation certainly needed to be put on steroids... because nothing about this is a small matter.
Trump spent years talking about Hillary, and here is he not in office with Classified Top Secret Documents.
There is likely so much more to this whole series of conduct acts regarding Trump, both in office and since he has been returned to public citizen status.

His vitriol toward Biden and this countries people and our government systems, I don't doubt that he used and/or planned to use those documents to do as much damages as he could to our current administration and this nation.. Because that is the vengeful mentality he has when he can't dominate and dictate over something.

I think investigation will show far more treasonous acts that what was indicated in the Mueller Report, and Congress is going to have to make some legislation to ensure that "NEVER" again, will any one have the unchecked power to do what Trump has done, and they have to do more to create a stone steel lined wall, that separates the Divisions of Government.

It will be decades before we get an educated enough society to accept the fact that nothing in the Constitution sanction nor supports "political parties". The design of our Congress never need the divisiveness of Political Parties. I think the younger more educated future generation will come to that level of understanding.

Actually the ability to form "parties" falls under "Freedom of Association", derived from the 1st Amendment.

 

[Common Sense 1]

A great big PR stunt with the newest filing that the DOJ submitted.​

Oh my Trump is doomed again!​

​

DOJ's Latest 'Smoking Gun' Just Makes Them Look Worse​

DOJ's Latest 'Smoking Gun' Just Makes Them Look Worse

townhall.com

"The impression I got is that it was a public relations effort. This is not needed in a court document to make the case to the sitting judge," Chaffetz pointed out. "This was put out there knowing that they were going to go out there to the media."

Chaffetz is, of course, correct. The DOJ is losing the PR war over public perception of its decision to raid Mar-a-Lago and its ongoing case against Trump. Last week's redacted-beyond-recognition affidavit justifying the warrant used to search Trump's home only created more questions. And now, their latest court filing is seeking to hand never-Trump Twitter and the mainstream media a new shiny object to herald as proof that the raid was necessary to...recover issues of Time Magazine and supposedly classified documents.

 

[RealityNow]

Actually the ability to form "parties" falls under "Freedom of Association", derived from the 1st Amendment.

yes, but they were never designed to have any "Political Power"... which is what we have madly and sadly allowed.
anyone can associate with whom every... but to "pretend and act like political parties is part of our constitutional premise of Congress" actually is pure "Idiocy".

A Politicians should not be "pushing any agenda of "Political Party", they are there to legislate and create and pass laws that are Constitutional supported, not to "advertise and promote political party ideology"

 

[Chomsky]

Yeah, it's really quite funny. I'm sure the affidavit lays out the same facts, but in a way they couldn't release without putting sources at risk. So they got a chance to start from scratch and make a very compelling public case against Trump, debunking a series of lies from his camp, WHILE they also pretty devastatingly destroyed his legal arguments in the motion.

That's actually a pretty good point, and including the picture in the filing would seem to indicate DOJ is willing to push back - understanding the political nature of the case.

The DoJ notes that the current judge isn't the one who ruled on the affidavit, so take the opportunity to catch her up on the facts that just so happen to make Trump and his counsel look like bald face liars, and in a way that CAN be released to the public.

Good point!

I'm not a lawyer, but a copy under seal of the affidavit might have worked, but instead they got to create an entire document geared to the judge and all of us.

I mean, it's really quite stunning what the Trump team handed to DoJ. I'm sure when the DoJ realized the gift Trump and the judge handed them, there was much laughter and celebration all around.

It is pretty amazing, I must admit.

I'd like to point-out an interesting facet with the series of motions. Besides the jurisprudence involved, the judge has to also deal with the logistics in carrying-out her jurisprudence!

What unique individual has the highest level Top Secret clearance to view these docs, has education & substantive decisional knowledge of the myriad of matters at hand in the documents, is an attorney, has a bar card to practice in her jurisdiction in her court, and has SCIF clearance? Is there anyone? From her local bar? She's not in D.C., you know?

 

[exoplanet]

To that I've penned above, I find this new development from DOJ troubling. DOJ is claiming a selection of documents was segregated from the main cache subpoenaed in the storage room that Trump was told to return, and then were secreted-away. Many of this secreted cache were of the very highest National Security Classifications - including 'Top Secret' & 'SCI'. They were found after the first subpoenaed recovery, during the performance of the subsequent search under warrant. I think it might be worth noting that after the initial subpoenaed recovery, Trumps' lawyers signed an affidavit declaring all items taken were now returned.

I strongly believe in law & order, and while I detest obstruction-of-justice as much as any crime, those that defend criminals' actions often seem to attempt to portray process-crimes as less than fully criminal. The thought seems to be the government doesn't have adequate evidence to prevail in the primary crime, so it resorts to a secondary process-crime. I can understand the thrust of that argument, too-a-point.

But if Trump tried to segregate and secret-away specific documents that DOJ & the judge had ordered him to return, then my view of this case is going to change quite a bit.

Regardless of whether he hid certain documents, their mishandling of classified documentation was so purposefully careless that it seems like it should be criminal to me. I mean it would be one thing if they messed up once and apologized. There is room for lenience around simple mistakes, but this was a clear pattern of dangerous behavior.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Trump being a Former President... should mandate a charge that includes, the highest of penalties. If he did not know better, he should have known better, but the way he railed on and on for 4 yrs, and the more than a year after office, he knew, he even pushed to increase penalty, so that increase should defiantly be applied to him.
and everyone involved should be charged with Misprision of Treason.

18 U.S. Code § 2382 - Misprision of treason​

To hell with his cult... mobilize every law enforcement agency and Pump up the National Guard and have the divisional branches on the military on stand by, and the minute that cult... does anything... "wipe them out" and wipe the cave they hide it out as well.
Any act by them make sure it triggers the military to wipe out every camp of confederates, antigovernmental, and any other democracy disgracing group that exist on the soil of America.

Mr. Trump DID report the incidents to "The President". After all he could hardly avoid telling himself what he was doing and he IS "The President" (if you don't believe me, just ask him).

 

[exoplanet]

Chaffetz is, of course, correct. The DOJ is losing the PR war over public perception of its decision to raid Mar-a-Lago and its ongoing case against Trump. Last week's redacted-beyond-recognition affidavit justifying the warrant used to search Trump's home only created more questions. And now, their latest court filing is seeking to hand never-Trump Twitter and the mainstream media a new shiny object to herald as proof that the raid was necessary to...recover issues of Time Magazine and supposedly classified documents.

By "supposedly classified" does that mean you believe that Trump had some kind of standing order to declassify? Or do you doubt that the material was ever top secret and classified?

 

[Chomsky]

If we can prove that classified documents at any of Trump's properties, have found their way to another country, then Trump should get charged with espionage.

Yours is an interesting comment, as the Espionage Act indeed also covers negligence & improper storage.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

If we can prove that classified documents at any of Trump's properties, have found their way to another country, then Trump should get charged with espionage.

The following -has been- will be received from a foreign government

Dear President Biden​

​

Although it pains us to be in a position where we are able to do this, we feel compelled by our desire for good relations between your country and ours - as well as our high regard for "The Rule of Law" to return the enclosed copies of classified US government documents which we received, in the same state that we received then.​

​

Accompanying the enclosed documents, please find the original (and only) copy of the cover letter which accompanied the documents when they were delivered to our embassy in ■■■■■■■■, on the ■■th day of M■■■■, 2021.​

​

As you can see from that cover letter, we were offered unredacted copies of the enclosed documents in return for the payment of US$■■■,■■■,■■■ and the promise of "Safe Haven" for life.​

​

On examining the package when it arrived, our security forces found several sets of identifiable fingerprints on the package and one of those sets of fingerprints returned a positive match for the fingerprints of D■■■■■ J■■■ T■■■■, a former official in your country's government.​

​

Yours truly​

​

V. P■■■■​

President​

R■■■■■ F■■■■■■■■■​

and a copy will be "leaked" (by the originator) simultaneously with its delivery to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Actually the ability to form "parties" falls under "Freedom of Association", derived from the 1st Amendment.

But, but, BUT!

That's only "judge made law" (and law made by "activist judges" at that)

Since no where in the Constitution of the United States of America do you find the words "political parties" that clearly shows that the Founding Fathers had no Original Intent for there to be any so-called "political parties" and that, therefore, means that those so-called "political parties" are unconstitutional.

[The above legal opinion, has been provided by the law firm of Wieselwort, du Plicité, Poco-Escrupuloso, Flerd, and Corrotto LLP, was paid for and has been officially approved and endorsed by "Devoted Online Lovers of Trump" Inc. (a non-partisan, independent, research and analysis organization exempt from federal taxation that is dedicated to bringing you the true truth and not the false truth that anyone who doesn't believe 100% of what Donald Trump says tries to tell you the so-called "facts" are), "Pro-Life United Gun Enthusiasts and Manufacturers for Jesus", and “"The ‘First Amendment Rights Trust’ Foundation”.]​

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

yes, but they were never designed to have any "Political Power"... which is what we have madly and sadly allowed.
anyone can associate with whom every... but to "pretend and act like political parties is part of our constitutional premise of Congress" actually is pure "Idiocy".

A Politicians should not be "pushing any agenda of "Political Party", they are there to legislate and create and pass laws that are Constitutional supported, not to "advertise and promote political party ideology"

If you cannot get TWO "political parties" to agree on anything in the Senate, how do you expect to get 100 individuals to do so?

(Scale up and apply to the House of Representatives - I'm too lazy to.)

 

[Chomsky]

Regardless of whether he hid certain documents, their mishandling of classified documentation was so purposefully careless that it seems like it should be criminal to me. I mean it would be one thing if they messed up once and apologized. There is room for lenience around simple mistakes, but this was a clear pattern of dangerous behavior.

It is criminal, if your read the Espionage Act you'll find it covers negligence & improper storage.

 

[Chomsky]

But, but, BUT!

That's only "judge made law" (and law made by "activist judges" at that)

Since no where in the Constitution of the United States of America do you find the words "political parties" that clearly shows that the Founding Fathers had no Original Intent for there to be any so-called "political parties" and that, therefore, means that those so-called "political parties" are unconstitutional.
​

[The above legal opinion, has been provided by the law firm of Wieselwort, du Plicité, Poco-Escrupuloso, Flerd, and Corrotto LLP, was paid for and has been officially approved and endorsed by "Devoted Online Lovers of Trump" Inc. (a non-partisan, independent, research and analysis organization exempt from federal taxation that is dedicated to bringing you the true truth and not the false truth that anyone who doesn't believe 100% of what Donald Trump says tries to tell you the so-called "facts" are), "Pro-Life United Gun Enthusiasts and Manufacturers for Jesus", and “"The ‘First Amendment Rights Trust’ Foundation”.]

You know, that I bolded might be good enough to go viral!

 

[Chomsky]

The following -has been- will be received from a foreign government

​

Dear President Biden​

​

​

​

Although it pains us to be in a position where we are able to do this, we feel compelled by our desire for good relations between your country and ours - as well as our high regard for "The Rule of Law" to return the enclosed copies of classified US government documents which we received, in the same state that we received then.​

​

​

​

Accompanying the enclosed documents, please find the original (and only) copy of the cover letter which accompanied the documents when they were delivered to our embassy in ■■■■■■■■, on the ■■th day of M■■■■, 2021.​

​

​

​

As you can see from that cover letter, we were offered unredacted copies of the enclosed documents in return for the payment of US$■■■,■■■,■■■ and the promise of "Safe Haven" for life.​

​

​

​

On examining the package when it arrived, our security forces found several sets of identifiable fingerprints on the package and one of those sets of fingerprints returned a positive match for the fingerprints of D■■■■■ J■■■ T■■■■, a former official in your country's government.​

​

​

​

Yours truly​

​

​

​

V. P■■■■​

​

President​

​

R■■■■■ F■■■■■■■■■​

and a copy will be "leaked" (by the originator) simultaneously with its delivery to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

Think about this:

If Trump were ever become President again, whom among our allies would share their intelligence with us?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Think about this:

If Trump were ever become President again, whom among our allies would share their intelligence with us?

No one with any.

 

[Fearandloathing]

The original document in question have been "found" in Trump's office. But yes, we don't know who may have copied them (if they did), or who he may have shared them with (if he did).

And to try to play at least some Devil's Advocate to the government's claim (always a good thing), the government would have to prove their claim that the documents were indeed removed from the main cache specifically to obstruct the investigation. Though I would assume the sworn affidavit by the lawyers would suffice. At the least, it would seem the signatory attorney might have legal liability.



I swear, it's indeed Nixonian but on freaking steroids!

One of the brightest moments of my broadcasting career was when I led the six o'clock major news with the words "Richard Nixon has resigned in shame,Gerald Ford is now the president."

I got called on the carpet for sounding way too ****ing happy

 

[RealityNow]

A great big PR stunt with the newest filing that the DOJ submitted.​

Oh my Trump is doomed again!​

​

DOJ's Latest 'Smoking Gun' Just Makes Them Look Worse​

DOJ's Latest 'Smoking Gun' Just Makes Them Look Worse

townhall.com

"The impression I got is that it was a public relations effort. This is not needed in a court document to make the case to the sitting judge," Chaffetz pointed out. "This was put out there knowing that they were going to go out there to the media."

Chaffetz is, of course, correct. The DOJ is losing the PR war over public perception of its decision to raid Mar-a-Lago and its ongoing case against Trump. Last week's redacted-beyond-recognition affidavit justifying the warrant used to search Trump's home only created more questions. And now, their latest court filing is seeking to hand never-Trump Twitter and the mainstream media a new shiny object to herald as proof that the raid was necessary to...recover issues of Time Magazine and supposedly classified documents.

Geez... you conceptual perception is so far off base and point until it is an utterance of pure insidiousness.

You guy can't even digest the principles of "transparency" to the best extent to not go into details of the Top Security Info, but to simply give the public an understanding of the necessity of the justified search and retrieval of government documents.

But, nobody, gives a shit if Right Wing Trumpist can't face the fact their cult leader stole the documents and in doing so, committed Espinoage of the highest order and will be prosecuted for it, just as any other citizen would be. The same would be done if a government official lied, hid, and did who knows what with information that is of the highest security order..

We already know Trumpist cult would love to destroy American Democracy and hailed Trump and Republican in their many efforts and acts to undermine American Democracy, We know, Trumpist Cult and Extreme Right Wing Republicans are Criminal Confederates.....
We can be assured that over the course of time the FBI has extensive intel, and they have not named all those that are under investigation, nor will they until they reach the time and point to do so.
There are many intellegence functions within the Intellegence Agencie(s) and none of those that are and will be investigated are greater than the Nation and certainly are not greater nor more important than our Republica Form of Government, and definatly not more important than our Representative Democracy.

So, you guys can spin all the crap you want, thinking that the delusion of white supermacy will keep you from scruitny and prosecution, and you will find out, this nation is far greater than the evil ideology of white nationalism.

Therefore, spin all the bullshit that turns you on.... it only cements the fact that American Democracy Respecting People, cannot trust Right Wing Confederates who call themselves Extremist Conservative Republicans.

It's likely you don't know much about computers, becasue its is no big challenge to document and catalogue each and every one of these Right Wing Confederates who call themselves Extremist Conservative Republicans. The Laws of Sedition, Subversion, Insurrection, Misprision of Treason and Treason are active laws and they can be carried out.

 

[RealityNow]

Mr. Trump DID report the incidents to "The President". After all he could hardly avoid telling himself what he was doing and he IS "The President" (if you don't believe me, just ask him).

Well, he should have reported it to the Justice Deparment so they can refer it to a Judge... Either way and Inclusively, these miscreatants should be charged and convicted.

These people think its still "Jim Crow as it relates to the Jim Crow influences upon the legal system... The Federalist Society has tried to install as many Jim Crow Groomed and Confederate Ideological Judges as they could... But the principles of Law is far greater than their aims and agenda of Jim Crow style malicious legal bastardizations of Law.

 

[Chomsky]

One of the brightest moments of my broadcasting career was when I led the six o'clock major news with the words "Richard Nixon has resigned in shame,Gerald Ford is now the president."

I got called on the carpet for sounding way too ****ing happy

Haha!

Was your hair long, then? Or did you have to compromise your flag?

 

[Fearandloathing]

Another TDS thread that has little to do with any American today and nothing more than a diversion from the disaster in the WH. Wonder if Trump prosecution will cure the TDS of many radicals in this forum. It is my sincere hope that he doesn't run again but guarantee if he does against Biden or any of the other top tier Democrats, Harris, Warren, Sanders, Schumer, Pelosi he will have my vote as he did in 16 and 20 due to policies and results

Here is the fact that matters pure hatred for Trump comes from a lack of self esteem and a diversion from any personal problems members of the left has as they always place blame never accepting responsibility. Trump had access to that information for 4 years so whether or not he took it with him to me is irrelevant as 1 1/2 year old documents mean absolutely nothing, just pure attack rhetoric and hatred from the left.

So you're a psychiatrist now?

Look, your hero is a slime. Nothing you can say or do will change that. You can accuse, make up stupid TLA's, even stupider nicknames but you cannot ever escape the fact the man you worship is a scumbag.

There is no corner of his life you can lift up as reason to cut this prick any slack. One thing he's ever done that was totally selfless.

But in closing maybe you need to consider the fact that every other president, all 44 of them obeyed the policy and the law. Trump did not. He broke that law, sneared at it in fact. Therefore he is a law beaker along with being a racist, mysoginist and dumber than spam.

 

[Risky Thicket]

36 page brief - in response to a motion to appoint a Special Master to independently review the seized documents. Not sure why they would object at all.

No, my post is spot on, this is another TDS thread, irrelevant to most Americans and a diversion from the real problems we have today

Yeah? How?

 

[Fearandloathing]

Haha!

Was your hair long, then? Or did you have to compromise your flag?

My hair was long and my beard was full. I did sell out though. Television is like Satan, beautiful in some ways, terrifying and frightening in others ...we are seeing the frightening now. And the money.....! of course.

 

[RealityNow]

So you're a psychiatrist now?

Look, your hero is a slime. Nothing you can say or do will change that. You can accuse, make up stupid TLA's, even stupider nicknames but you cannot ever escape the fact the man you worship is a scumbag.

There is no corner of his life you can lift up as reason to cut this prick any slack. One thing he's ever done that was totally selfless.

But in closing maybe you need to consider the fact that every other president, all 44 of them obeyed the policy and the law. Trump did not. He broke that law, sneared at it in fact. Therefore he is a law beaker along with being a racist, mysoginist and dumber than spam.

It's not much need to go into the spin cycle with the poster, it is likely are not much more than a Carbon Copy Mentality of the likes of Byron D. La Beckwith.... and sounds like a remake of the Early 1960's George Wallace.
To such types, Trump is their dream of a Modern Day "Jefferson Davis".

 

[Fearandloathing]

It's not much need to go into the spin cycle with the poster, it is likely are not much more than a Carbon Copy Mentality of the likes of Byron D. La Beckwith.... and sounds like a remake of the Early 1960's George Wallace.
To such types, Trump is their dream of a Modern Day "Jefferson Davis".

The post is part of a strategy