[W:105] GOD HIMSELF will be with them

[Daisy]

Funny thing is...many of the scripture trinitarians twist around to claim they support the trinity, the holy spirit is not mentioned...yet there are supposed be 3...

 

[Metanoia]

Separation from God is very important to some and union with God is important to others….

 

[redbeer]

Funny thing is...many of the scripture trinitarians twist around to claim they support the trinity, the holy spirit is not mentioned...yet there are supposed be 3...

God is Holy and God is Spirit.....Jesus has received the promise of the Holy Spirit:


(Act 2:22) Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
(Act 2:23) Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
(Act 2:24) Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
(Act 2:25) For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
(Act 2:26) Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
(Act 2:27) Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
(Act 2:28) Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
(Act 2:29) Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
(Act 2:30) Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
(Act 2:31) He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
(Act 2:32) This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
(Act 2:33) Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.


Jesus speaks of himself "after" receiving the Promise of the HS and it was Jesus who came to them this day.


(Joh 14:16) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
(Joh 14:17) Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
(Joh 14:18) I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
(Joh 14:19) Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
(Joh 14:20) At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.


This is Jesus speaking of His return once ascended to the Father and after receiving the promise of the HS......"I will come to you" at that day you will know "That I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you"........and we:


(Joh 14:23) Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

(Joh 14:28) Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

(Joh 17:21) That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
(Joh 17:22) And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:


The Pharisees and trinitarians suppose that when Jesus says, "I and My Father are one", it means He is God, but not so. Are we Christ when he comes to be in us, in Spirit and Truth?.....of course not, we are one in the same way the Father and Son are one. Neither does it make Jesus God, as scripture shows.

 

[Daisy]

God is Holy and God is Spirit.....Jesus has received the promise of the Holy Spirit:

True but we believe the holy spirit to be a little different...not a person but simply the invisible, energizing force that Jehovah God puts into action to accomplish His will...it is holy because it comes from Jehovah, who is clean and righteous to the highest degree, and because it is Jehovah's means to accomplish what is holy...

"In answer the angel said to her: “Holy spirit will come upon you,+ and power of the Most High will overshadow you. And for that reason the one who is born will be called holy,+ God’s Son." Luke 1:35

"But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you,+ and you will be witnesses+ of me in Jerusalem,+ in all Judea and Samaria,+ and to the most distant part of the earth.” Acts 1:8

 

[redbeer]

True but we believe the holy spirit to be a little different...not a person but simply the invisible, energizing force that Jehovah God puts into action to accomplish His will...it is holy because it comes from Jehovah, who is clean and righteous to the highest degree, and because it is Jehovah's means to accomplish what is holy...

It's God's composition, what He is, and at the ascension Jesus received this Promise and this is how Jesus returns to us, in the power and glory of Gods Spirit. Even after being glorified, Jesus still has a God, His Father.....that did not change.

God's Spirit is not another person.....it's who and what He is.....how He creates and shows His love towards us. Once glorified, Jesus remains the Christ, the Son of God and neither did God send another, but this 'another' is the risen, glorified Jesus.

"In answer the angel said to her: “Holy spirit will come upon you,+ and power of the Most High will overshadow you. And for that reason the one who is born will be called holy,+ God’s Son." Luke 1:35

"But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you,+ and you will be witnesses+ of me in Jerusalem,+ in all Judea and Samaria,+ and to the most distant part of the earth.” Acts 1:8

Yes, even Jesus, Himself cannot do nothing of himself, but by the Holy Spirit of His Father. It's how all the miracles were accomplished, for the Father (HS) was in Christ. We too will receive these promises to where in the end God will be all in all, and there will never be any other who has the preeminence of God the Father, for there will always be only One God.

 

[tosca1]

Funny thing is...many of the scripture trinitarians twist around to claim they support the trinity, the holy spirit is not mentioned...yet there are supposed be 3...

What do you mean the Holy Spirit is not mentioned?


He was introduced in the Genesis 1!

Genesis 1 (esv)
1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.




Lol - speaking of twisting - JW.org had removed The Spirit from Genesis 1........and twisted it to sound like a science fiction movie!


Here is JW's version!



Gen 1 (NWT)
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.a
2  Now the earth was formless and desolate,* and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep,*b and God’s active force*c was moving about over the surface of the waters.d

https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/genesis/1/

That's why, to you............................ The Spirit is not mentioned!
Because JW removed it!

 

[tosca1]

Funny thing is...many of the scripture trinitarians twist around to claim they support the trinity, the holy spirit is not mentioned...yet there are supposed be 3...

Lol - there's more to this on the thread about the False Teachings of JW.



Posts #1, 699, #1,700 and #1,701

The False Teachings Of The Jehovah's Witnesses

More BS...the earth is billions of years old...the Bible does not signify the age of the earth whatsoever... Looks like progress in regards to age of earth but it shows that you forgot the 7 days of creation per the Bible……and no comment on the age of mankind ?…..it is beginning to look as if...

debatepolitics.com

I bet you won't be able to answer the question!

 

[tosca1]

True but we believe the holy spirit to be a little different...not a person but simply the invisible, energizing force that Jehovah God puts into action to accomplish His will...it is holy because it comes from Jehovah, who is clean and righteous to the highest degree, and because it is Jehovah's means to accomplish what is holy...

"In answer the angel said to her: “Holy spirit will come upon you,+ and power of the Most High will overshadow you. And for that reason the one who is born will be called holy,+ God’s Son." Luke 1:35

"But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you,+ and you will be witnesses+ of me in Jerusalem,+ in all Judea and Samaria,+ and to the most distant part of the earth.” Acts 1:8

@redbeer


There is no accurate description of the TRINITY.
They are referred to as "persons" by some, simply because of lack of a better word.

What we do know for a fact - based on the Scriptures - is that, both The Word, and The Spirit, are of GOD.


The Word is literally PERSONIFIED in Jesus Christ, as the Son of God.
That was explained in the Scriptures.


John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.





Unless God fully explains to us in details, how can we know?
We simply rely on what are given in the Scriptures.

Why would a Christian question the truth of the Trinity? Just because we can't fully understand it?
We - of all people - should know the answer to that:



Isaiah 55

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.




If the Scriptures say God is comprised of a 100 entities - would you question that?
Would you ask: how can that be? Why would that be?


Well - we better believe it even if we don't understand it.
God has His own reasons for doing things.

F A I T H.


That's all there is to it.

 

[redbeer]

@redbeer


There is no accurate description of the TRINITY.
They are referred to as "persons" by some, simply because of lack of a better word.

What we do know for a fact - based on the Scriptures - is that, both The Word, and The Spirit, are of GOD.


The Word is literally PERSONIFIED in Jesus Christ, as the Son of God.
That was explained in the Scriptures.


John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.





Unless God fully explains to us in details, how can we know?
We simply rely on what are given in the Scriptures.

Why would a Christian question the truth of the Trinity? Just because we can't fully understand it?
We - of all people - should know the answer to that:



Isaiah 55

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.




If the Scriptures say God is comprised of a 100 entities - would you question that?
Would you ask: how can that be? Why would that be?


Well - we better believe it even if we don't understand it.
God has His own reasons for doing things.

F A I T H.


That's all there is to it.

Yet, scripture emphatically teach that God is One, only One and Jesus declares this One is the Father only.

Too many follow the doctrines and commandments of man rather than God's.

Or tradition and laziness for to fall into the herd, fearing social consequences.

 

[Daisy]

What do you mean the Holy Spirit is not mentioned?


He was introduced in the Genesis 1!

Genesis 1 (esv)
1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.




Lol - speaking of twisting - JW.org had removed The Spirit from Genesis 1........and twisted it to sound like a science fiction movie!


Here is JW's version!



Gen 1 (NWT)
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.a
2  Now the earth was formless and desolate,* and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep,*b and God’s active force*c was moving about over the surface of the waters.d

https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/genesis/1/

That's why, to you............................ The Spirit is not mentioned!
Because JW removed it!

Pay attention...Genesis 1:2 is irrelevant to this discussion...we're talking about Matthew 28:19, where all 3 are mentioned together...there are many, many other scriptures where only Jehovah and Jesus are mentioned and the same goes for the holy spirit mentioned alone...

 

[tosca1]

Pay attention...Genesis 1:2 is irrelevant to this discussion..

Hahahah - how is it irrelevant?

The Spirit of GOD is mentioned in Gen 2, in all Bibles...................except JW's NWT!
They took it out, and replaced it with something else!
No wonder you didn't see it!

we're talking about Matthew 28:19,

No, you're not!

Your post doesn't say that!
You're not responding to anything in particular! It's generalized!


Read your post #651.

Daisy
Funny thing is...many of the scripture trinitarians twist around to claim they support the trinity, the holy spirit is not mentioned...yet there are supposed be 3...

You're trying to squirm out of it.........eh?


Anyway, Matthew 28:19 mentions all three!



Matthew 28
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,


So, what are you on about?

You're still wrong!

where all 3 are mentioned together..

That's not how you read and understand the Bile!


You can't separate one verse and exclude the others that lend support to it!

That's not how you discern!

.there are many, many other scriptures where only Jehovah and Jesus are mentioned and the same goes for the holy spirit mentioned alone...

They don't always have to be mentioned together!

There are many verses where it's only Jesus Christ or Yahweh that's being mentioned and talked about!
That doesn't mean it negates or debunks the TRINITY!

 

[tosca1]

Oh boy!
Speaking of Matthew 28.

@redbeer
@Daisy


look at this!


Matthew 28
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,



God shares His glory not only with JESUS.........................but with the Holy Spirit, as well!

 

[tosca1]

True but we believe the holy spirit to be a little different...not a person but simply the invisible, energizing force that Jehovah God puts into action to accomplish His will...it is holy because it comes from Jehovah, who is clean and righteous to the highest degree, and because it is Jehovah's means to accomplish what is holy...

Whatever you call it.........


...........................it doesn't change the fact that THE SPIRIT, IS OF GOD!


If God chooses to call "whatever it is," Spirit of GOD - then, it is THE SPIRIT OF GOD!
It's not for you to correct Him.
It's not for you to contradict or challenge what He said!
That's the point!


You don't have any authority!
Lol - especially so when you rely on the bumbling false teachings of JW!

 

[redbeer]

Oh boy!
Speaking of Matthew 28.

@redbeer
@Daisy


look at this!


Matthew 28
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,



God shares His glory not only with JESUS.........................but with the Holy Spirit, as well!

I understand Father and Son, but this mysterious third person.....what is his name/role in the triune being you worship?

 

[redbeer]

Whatever you call it.........


...........................it doesn't change the fact that THE SPIRIT, IS OF GOD!


If God chooses to call "whatever it is," Spirit of GOD - then, it is THE SPIRIT OF GOD!
It's not for you to correct Him.
It's not for you to contradict or challenge what He said!
That's the point!


You don't have any authority!
Lol - especially so when you rely on the bumbling false teachings of JW!

Yet, you have the authority to call the HS, the 3rd person of a singular being God......from where and whom?

We have Father/Son but this 3rd one, is he a brother/uncle/cousin of the other two?.....trying to understand.

 

[Daisy]

Hahahah - how is it irrelevant?

The Spirit of GOD is mentioned in Gen 2, in all Bibles...................except JW's NWT!
They took it out, and replaced it with something else!
No wonder you didn't see it!








No, you're not!

Your post doesn't say that!
You're not responding to anything in particular! It's generalized!


Read your post #651.






You're trying to squirm out of it.........eh?


Anyway, Matthew 28:19 mentions all three!



Matthew 28
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,


So, what are you on about?

You're still wrong!










That's not how you read and understand the Bile!


You can't separate one verse and exclude the others that lend support to it!

That's not how you discern!










They don't always have to be mentioned together!

There are many verses where it's only Jesus Christ or Yahweh that's being mentioned and talked about!
That doesn't mean it negates or debunks the TRINITY!

Too bad you failed to understand the connection...but I'm not surprised...

 

[Daisy]

That's not how you read and understand the Bile!

Please keep your bile to yourself...

 

[tosca1]

Yet, you have the authority to call the HS, the 3rd person of a singular being God......from where and whom?

We have Father/Son but this 3rd one, is he a brother/uncle/cousin of the other two?.....trying to understand.

@Daisy


Yes, I speak from Authority..................because...................... I'm simply repeating............................. GOD's WORDS!


My discernment is based on GOD's Words!

My arguments and rebuttals........my EVIDENCES..........all, come from GOD's WORDS - The BIBLE!
Nothing DILUTED from it, nothing twisted, or changed!

 

[tosca1]

Lol - what other Spirit would God give glory to, if not His Own?

He'd introduced His Spirit - in the very first chapter of the Book - in Genesis 1!

 

[tosca1]

Too bad you failed to understand the connection...but I'm not surprised...

Speaking of bile - too bad you can't refute.
That's why you're reduced to spouting off the usual one-liners that means squat.

 

[tosca1]

Ezekiel 37: 15-28

26 I will make a covenant of peace with them. It shall be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will set them in their land and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in their midst forevermore.
27 My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
28 Then the nations will know that I am the Lord who sanctifies Israel, when my sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.”




The almost identical statement below comes from Jesus, after He'd redeemed mankind and Resurrected to Heaven.




Rev 21
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.
4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”


5 And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
6 And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment.





Rev 22
12 “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done.
13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

14 Blessed are those who wash their robes,[c] so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.
15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

 

[Metanoia]

Somewhere God and Jesus are having a cup of coffee and watching with amusement about which name of theirs is the best…..maybe they think of how many times they have walked beside us and we never even said hello….we have to believe that God is multilingual and He knows if you are actually seeking Him or if you are just saying his name so others might hear you….

 

[Daisy]

"Some rely on chariots and others on horses, But we call on the name of Jehovah our God." Psalm 20:7

What is included in knowing the name of God?

The material creation testifies to God’s existence, but it does not reveal God’s name. (Ps 19:1; Ro 1:20) For an individual to know God’s name signifies more than a mere acquaintance with the word. (2Ch 6:33) It means actually knowing the Person—his purposes, activities, and qualities as revealed in his Word. (Compare 1Ki 8:41-43; 9:3, 7; Ne 9:10.) This is illustrated in the case of Moses, a man whom Jehovah ‘knew by name,’ that is, knew intimately. (Ex 33:12) Moses was privileged to see a manifestation of Jehovah’s glory and also to ‘hear the name of Jehovah declared.’ (Ex 34:5) That declaration was not simply the repetition of the name Jehovah but was a statement about God’s attributes and activities. “Jehovah, Jehovah, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abundant in loving-kindness and truth, preserving loving-kindness for thousands, pardoning error and transgression and sin, but by no means will he give exemption from punishment, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons and upon grandsons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation.” (Ex 34:6, 7) Similarly, the song of Moses, containing the words “for I shall declare the name of Jehovah,” recounts God’s dealings with Israel and describes his personality.—De 32:3-44.

When Jesus Christ was on earth, he ‘made his Father’s name manifest’ to his disciples. (Joh 17:6, 26) Although having earlier known that name and being familiar with God’s activities as recorded in the Hebrew Scriptures, these disciples came to know Jehovah in a far better and grander way through the One who is “in the bosom position with the Father.” (Joh 1:18) Christ Jesus perfectly represented his Father, doing the works of his Father and speaking, not of his own originality, but the words of his Father. (Joh 10:37, 38; 12:50; 14:10, 11, 24) That is why Jesus could say, “He that has seen me has seen the Father also.”—Joh 14:9.

The Name of God’s Son. Because of remaining faithful to the very death, Jesus Christ was rewarded by his Father, receiving a superior position and “the name that is above every other name.” (Php 2:5-11) All those desiring life must recognize what that name stands for (Ac 4:12), including Jesus’ position as Judge (Joh 5:22), King (Re 19:16), High Priest (Heb 6:20), Ransomer (Mt 20:28), and Chief Agent of salvation.—Heb 2:10; see JESUS CHRIST.

Christ Jesus as “King of kings and Lord of lords” also is to lead the heavenly armies to wage war in righteousness. As executioner of God’s vengeance, he would be displaying powers and qualities completely unknown to those fighting against him. Appropriately, therefore, “he has a name written that no one knows but he himself.”—Re 19:11-16.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003177

 

[tosca1]

"Some rely on chariots and others on horses, But we call on the name of Jehovah our God." Psalm 20:7

Take note that you are invoking the BOOK of PSALM, from the Old Testament.
That's BEFORE we became God's children.............................through JESUS CHRIST.




When Christ came, He taught us how to address GOD.
Now, those who came to Jesus have a relationship with GOD - the same kind of relationship Jesus has with Him.
He taught us to call God, FATHER.

Let me re-post this:


And yet, Jesus addresses GOD as, "FATHER!"

And, Jesus teaches us to do the same.




Matthew 6

The Lord's Prayer​

5 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others.
Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.
6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.


7 “And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words.
8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.


9 Pray then like this:

“Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name.[a]
10 Your kingdom come,
your will be done,[b]
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread,[c]
12 and forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.[d]


14 For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you,
15 but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.




Count how many times Jesus mentions FATHER! In the context of who GOD IS, to us.
God is OUR FATHER!

That's............................ EMPHASIS!



Unless you're a progressive and call your dad by his first name.......................... you would understand what I mean!
Unless someone is against God as his Father! This isn't about being "cool."
That's how Jesus instructs us to address GOD.


Jesus - of all people - would know how GOD wants to be addressed!



Aren't we following the teachings of Jesus?
So.......................why the resistance to this teaching?



It makes me think of a movie about how a step-parent feels joy when his/her step-child finally stops calling him/her by his/her first name...................and accepts and calls him "dad" or "mom" in the end.

 

[tosca1]

I just love the full implication of this.

Having a loving GOD, who wants to be a FATHER to us.
And, what that means for us.


Can you feel it?



Jesus addresses GOD as, "FATHER!"

And, Jesus teaches us to do the same.